Obama For President? WRONG! (Video Link)

[tlarkin]

CrazyIvan,

I agree with you, all that crap aside, why do you think he is so un-american? Because he questions the governments foreign policy? He says we brought the attacks on ourself, and I tend to agree with him. Not to be confused that we deserved it, because those victims in those terrorist attacks, well lets just say 9/11 for this conversation, did not do anything to them. However, we have been in the middle east sticking our nose in other governments businesses for a while, and we have had a hand in their Oil for a while, that can not be argued. We back Isreal, which pisses off a lot of fundamentalist muslims against the Jews. We secretly funded Afghanistan in the 80s in their war with Russia and then left them high and dry afterwards.

Why do you think the terrorists attacked us? Is it because we are too free?


We live today in this country with segregation and with slavery. Modern slavery is to debt, and the private corporations and banks are our masters. We are segregated by class, and pay scale. America certainly does cater to these people a lot more than they do the middle class. Though, I can see where you draw conclusions of it being a racial aspect of thinking. My old roommate, and still my good friend who I go shooting with sometimes is black. I have had many conversations about the dynamics of racism, and basically it comes down to white people will never fully understand the impact of racism, because they have never had to deal with it. I want to believe that isn't true because I have seen first hand what a black man deal with in our system. it is a long personal and somewhat complicated story of my friend that I had to experience with him because we lived in the same house at one point in our lives. Trust me, it is all jacked up. i didn't want to believe it and was in denial even about it at first, but it really is there.


Not everyone has equal opportunity either. The inner city school system I work for, hardly any of them qualify for college or even finish college. I grew up middle class, and I will say very privileged compared to a lot of people. However, when it came my time to go to college my parents could not afford to send me. So, I applied for financial aid, and was denied all financial aid for the most part because my parents made too much money. So, they didn't make enough to send me, but too much for me to qualify for most of the financial aid programs. I was forced into private loans, which of course have more interest and are not regulated by the educational standards federal loans are.


We are led to believe we have all the opportunity in the world, the best education, the best health care, and the best legal system in the world, but in reality it doesn't always compare to what other countries standards are. The minute anyone speaks out, tons of people take the chance to jump on that persons ass and call them unamerican, non patriot or even a terrorist.

I like how he brings up the double standard of christian morality in this country. To some of us, abortion is wrong and murder and you will go to hell if you abort a baby, but if you are thousands of miles away killing in a war it is not murder. We have dropped giant bombs and killed 100s of thousands if not more, and never on our soil. It finally came back to us. You can't hop in and out of world affairs and wars and not expect it to back lash on you eventually. Sometimes it works out for everyone's general interest, like with Vietnam. We now trade with them millions of dollars of goods each year, and everything is good. However, we do not hold that relationship with every country we have waged war with. We have committed sin because murder is murder no matter how you dress it up.

I think this whole thing is blown out of proportion and people are just taking it the wrong way. When is it a wrong thing for a person to question their government?

Everyone lives life different and has different experiences, and just because something has always been one way in your life does not mean it has in another persons life.

[CrazyIvan]

It is one thing to question the Govt. I've questioned the brainless acts behind our President since the moment we were told no WMD's of the type they described were found in Iraq. I think our Govt. as a whole is fighting against the values of America as well as her people. I look for the right person to vote for. I don't care their political party, sex, race, etc... I am an Equal Opportunity Voter.

It is another thing to damn our country as a whole. It is another thing to point out laws that apply to all of us and make it seem like it only came to be and exists because of any single race.

These people don't give a thought to how our world would be if we DIDN'T stick our nose in international business. If we didn't bomb Japan, we would have been overwhelmed sending troops to Japan...the Nazi's would have won and they would have killed every person who they did not deem worthy which they came across, no questions asked. Japan would have whooped us on the Pacific front. The Nazis would have swept across Russia after easily taking over all of Europe and able to focus their power more on Russia, then moved onto Japan, after we lost to Japan. Then they would have come here, and we would be the United States of the Aryan Union, speaking German and hailing to our dictator.

I do not believe in fighting for Israel at this point. They can handle themselves. I do support, however, our historical support for Israel while they got on their feet. But, they don't need us anymore.

Until the Care Bears agree to allow drilling and oil excavation within the United States and surrounding waters, we will forever be in debt to the middle east and they will forever hate us behind the closed golden doors of their mansions that we have paid for.

As far as the USA being the best democracy...I don't know that I agree with that. Historical data concerning Greece show during the Greek Empirical run was a much more leveled democracy. Each person's vote counted just as much as the next. There werent Electoral votes, saying one group of people's vote were more important than another, as we do here in the USA. Criminals were charged as such and not given leniency because of some Political Correctness and fear of being dubbed as something worse than the criminal they imprisoned or took care of.

As far as racism, every race has had some point in it's history when it was opressed by another. My ancestors, the Irish, were enslaved, raped, mamed, murdered, etc... as much or more by the English. Grow up and get the hell over it, black and white both.

I do agree we are slaves to corporations and government, though.

[tlarkin]

I agree, WWII, some sick stuff was going on and we did need intervene, we took our time but we eventually did come and help out. I can get behind a war if the cause is right. Vietnam, I am not so sure of. Especially, after reading how both the French and the British were in Indo China before us and go their assess handed to them. I think it was a personal interest of some people in government to have a hand in Vietnam. Rubber was a big thing at that point in time and Vietnam has the best land in the world for growing rubber. It was also sought out by two previous European armies for about the same reasons, resources.

I was not alive during Vietnam so all my experiences are from books and documentaries. My friend's father was in vietnam and he has to take a special pill every night so he can never dream, because all he has is nightmares about vietnam. it is very sad.

I don't think Germany had the man power or the resources to ever hit or invade the US, plus this country is just too big in square mileage to ever really be conquered. It would take just too many resources and too many people to conquer the USA.


I just think when people come out and call this man un or anti american after only reading one article from one news source is a pretty limited scope on what the person is really about. I have reserved my judgement on this pastor for now until I get some more facts, then i will come to a conclusion. No one has seen the whole sermon, so when he said God Damn America, he could be talking about us paying for our sins, which is the conclusion I have drawn from watching the video and reading the article. He is saying that we can't police the world and expect it not to ever come back to us. I think that was his point, but I can't speak for him or draw that conclusion just quite yet. There is not enough information to do so.

[CrazyIvan]

See how this hits you...

Google Video

Also, Obama's wife...remember her saying: "This is the first time in my life I've been proud to be an American." which was conveniently said after they hit the national stage, and only after hitting the national stage. I guess you can't be happy to be American until you are rich and famous?

[TexasT]

Racisms exists in this nation as evidenced by this very thread and it's sickening. This we versus they attitude is ignorant. One pastor's beliefs do not represent Obama and they sure as heck don't represent the black US population. Just because you are a member of a church does not mean you have to agree with what is being said during each and every sermon. I agree with what tlarkin is saying and he hinted on a very important issue. It is easy to say slavery is over, racism is gone so black people need to stop complaining and function in society like everyone else. But when segregation ended and black people got the freedom they deserved, the world was saying "here's your freedom now catch up." Well it's pretty hard to catch up when everyone else has been racing for over 200 years. It's even harder when you aren't given adequate resources to help close the gap. It's a situation a lot of people can appreciate if they're never been poor, and even those that can appreciate it can not fully understand it. How can you build a name for your family if you live in the ghetto where the schools are bad, there's 2 liquor stores on every block, and there's drugs and violence galore? Move out you say? Most people living in the ghetto are not there because they want to be, they're there because they have to be.

I don't use race as an excuse for handouts. I have busted my @ss my entire life just to be where I am today. Not everybody has to work this hard to be here. Would I change the fact that I've had to work harder than 98% of the people in my class? No. It makes me appreciative. Before anybody gets in a tizzy, I'm not saying every black person on earth is a hard worker that just can't get a break, but I recognize it's not always easy.

[tlarkin]

video is not available, do you have another link?

[CrazyIvan]

TL,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZHATK4OjnyI

TT,

Obama is FAR from just a member of this church. He has associated himself and his family on very personal levels with this Pastor for over 20 years. I think that shows more than just a mere 'casual friendship' with this pastor. It shows a personal connection, based upon shared belief, opinion, comraderie and friendship. I don't know about you, but I don't associate on such a personal level with people who go around preaching anti-gun rhetoric. And...I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT make financial contributions to functions where the person could go and preach their beliefs which conflict with my own.

And, I didn't exactly grow up rich. I grew up in the 80's and 90's. My mom was a single mom, with about a $13k/yr income with no child support. I worked hard to get out of High School with a 3.8 GPA, even though I grew up in an urban, inner-city school. I worked through college to pay for it, still am paying for it. But, I have managed to get myself above the impoverished income level.

People need to quit whining about what they were handed (or not handed) and go get what they want. I am far from a super-success story, but I certainly could have taken up drugs and alcohol abuse and whined about the life I was handed. I chose not to. Just as we get CCW to take responsibility for our own safety...we need to take responsibility for our own future and developing one for ourselves. We are all given the same opportunity when we are shot out of the womb. Just as a rich kid can kill himself with drugs, a poor kid can rise from the ashes of poverty and make something of him/herself.

[tlarkin]

CrazyIvan,

First off that video was from Hannity, and that guy is a crock. Again the footage was cut and edited, I would like to see the whole speech. Hannity is known for his BS, lied about his upbringing, his whole past, and has a closet full of skeletons. I wouldn't trust anything that guy or his show has to say farther and I could throw him. Colmes is hardly a liberal counter-part either, is more in the middle of the road. That whole show is a political agenda of Fox news.

My parents, also divorced, I also had a 3.x GPA when I graduated HS, and had like a 27 on the ACTs, and tested out of both English and Math in college. I still got screwed. With all of that behind me backing me up, my parent still barely made too much money for any financial aid. However, education is its own subject all together.

I still stand by my statements of racism and modern slavery. TexasT also makes a good point about giving them their freedoms late, they didn't even have civil rights until the 60s, and were treated as being sub human. You can't sit here and honestly say that a black person has every same opportunity that a white person has, because the white man has been established in this country since the beginning, and the black man has only been at equal par as far as rights go for the last 50 years. All of the wealth, power, and government is still pretty much ran by over 95% white christian men. Which makes it harder for anyone else to get in. Same goes with social settings and big business. The richest men in the world are white and they live here in the USA.

Take a look at some worldly statistics broken down to if there were only 100 people representing the entire world population.

The world as a village of hundred people

[CrazyIvan]

Brian Ross said they found dozens of video-taped episodes of this Pastor's sermons which preached similar issues.

I don't like Hannity and Colmes either, but they didn't dub the voice into the Pastor...those words came out of the Pastor's mouth.

These videos are for sale on the church's website if you want to hear the whole things for yourself. Or, you can go to their website and sign up and watch archived videos, here you go:

Trinity United Church of Christ

They also hold webcasts of the sermons. Tune in during the sermon & see what is said. Again, quit whining about what is handed to you and go do some reasearch of your own...I have.

As far as your parents making just enough to be too much for federal college aid, that is not racial, that is standardized for everyone, so why would that even be an issue? That is as bad as this Pastor saying the 3-strikes law is somehow focused upon a certain race.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

Brian Ross said they found dozens of video-taped episodes of this Pastor's sermons which preached similar issues.

I don't like Hannity and Colmes either, but they didn't dub the voice into the Pastor...those words came out of the Pastor's mouth.

You've never edited video before, you can cut stuff to make it look the way you want. Trust me I have done it before and used to do some video editing myself. Hannity is an ass, hands down and if thats the only evidence you can produce it still hasn't changed my mind.

These videos are for sale on the church's website if you want to hear the whole things for yourself. Or, you can go to their website and sign up and watch archived videos, here you go:

Trinity United Church of Christ

They also hold webcasts of the sermons. Tune in during the sermon & see what is said. Again, quit whining about what is handed to you and go do some reasearch of your own...I have.

Thanks I will check into it. If you only looked into the Hannity video I suggest you look further. I haven't had time to go digging through all this stuff yet which is why I said my opinion is on the fence. Everything posted in this thread does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt any evidence leading towards anything. All the articles and videos shown have been cut and edited, and its obvious it has been done. Therefore you can not draw any conclusion from it at all.

As far as your parents making just enough to be too much for federal college aid, that is not racial, that is standardized for everyone, so why would that even be an issue?

It was in lieu of your comment about how you had it rough, and my rebuttal was that everyone has it rough, life isn't fair. Your comment about you getting out of poverty has nothing to do with anything I have said. Federal Aid is a racial thing, and if I were a minority I would have had access to more federal money, however, I did not care to even think about that. I know that all non whites have it harder, I know first hand watching my friend and ex-roommate go through his life. He is screwed because his ex is a white female, and she is crazy to boot my friend. All the crap she has pulled and never got in trouble ever once, yet she can call the cops on him in a second and they come busting down our door. I won't get into specifics because out of respect for my friends personal privacy, but trust me, its different when you are black. It is something that I will never fully understand because I am white, and yes I am Irish. So I could cry all day about how my ancestors were oppressed and indentured servants and blah blah blah, or I could get over it. That happened a long time ago, and since then has become a non issue.

You got to realize black people didn't have any rights at all until the 1960s during the civil rights movement. They have only had 50 years to catch up to everyone else who is already wealthy and already has had their rights since the beginning. It doesn't change over night and it will still take some time.

[CrazyIvan]

It's all good. No rough spots.

The whole point to this thread is that Obama associates himself with this man on such a deep, extended level, who from my research, has proven to be someone working against the peacefull future of our country and uniting its people. Because of that, this is an added reason why I believe Obama is not the man for the job.

Is it hard to believe this kind of stuff goes on? Yes, for me...it is. But my suprise of hearing this does not mean it isn't true. Like I said, I didn't grow up in a community or school environment where racism was given any consideration by peers, parents or educators. I grew up mostly blind to the racism that goes on in other parts of our country, though I do know it exists. It hurts to see racism going on, though, from any racial perspective.

As a matter of fact, in the aftermath of 9/11, I was really upset with the radicals that hit this country. They changed my outlook on some people. After that, I looked at, what I perceived to be middle eastern, people different. I try to opress those feelings and have done well so far, pretty much they are gone. But, I hated that those people who did that to us on 9/11 created such an animosity for their race on a large scale in this country. I hated that they made me feel that way. Thank God that I was able to get passed it.

But, when people rag on and on about the racial issue...do they really expect the lines between races to dissappear or are they just whining, trying to draw attention to themself, or...? Somehow I don't see spouting hate for other races being a good way to resolve anything.

[Coeloptera]

Nice try guys: Obama Denounces Pastor's 9/11 Comments, Obama Denounces Pastor Who Accused US Of Bringing On The 9/11 Attacks By Spreading Terrorism - CBS News

"Obama wrote that he's looked to Wright for spiritual advice, not political guidance, and he's been pained and angered to learn of some of his pastor's comments for which he had not been present."

"'I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies,' Obama said. 'I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Reverend Wright that are at issue.'"

Does that sound like an unreasonable response? Pained and angered? Categorically denounce? What more can the guy say?

Smacks of desperation to me. Trying to dig up dirt on a guy who's not Your Candidate.

Of course stuff Bush is responsible for, like this, apparently gets a pass: FBI Tried to Cover Patriot Act Abuses With Flawed, Retroactive Subpoenas, Audit Finds | Threat Level from Wired.com

Your partisanship is showing...

Okay. Now let's try this again.

Obama is not a radical Islamist sleeper agent.

Obama is not an America-hater.

Obama is not a peacenik.

Really...get something real and people might listen.

- Coeloptera

[tlarkin]

I knew there was more to it, thanks for the link I just haven't had a ton of time on my own to research fully. Anything I see on Fox news or its related shows I know is put there for political bias of the right wing.

yeah I read that FBI thing about the subpoenas earlier today. I made a comment about it earlier loosely but didn't get as specific as you.

I am just curious, how are we a peacefully united country? As it stands now we are loosely united, and it is falling apart rapidly, by fear mongering, chemical warfare, anthrax, you aren't safe, you can be killed at any time from anywhere, weapons of mass destruction, a war on Oil, 300 billion dollars in more military debt, a lowered economy and now raised taxes that also just got approved today.

The Democrats and Republicans can not help us one bit. We need reform in this country from the ground up to fix everything at the root, and let the rest fall in place.

We also today became the #2 economy in the world for the first time in a long time. Europe is now #1, because of the decrease in value of our dollar. Way to go Bush administration!

[troy2000]

Well, we all knew that after trying to soften the target up with the Muslim crap, the second punch was going to be questioning his Christianity and his Church. That's a given.

If they can't find anything real to hang him on, and they can't get people to swallow the bs they make up, they'll blame him for everything his pastor's ever said and done, along with anything negative said or done by any other black, today or throughout history. They'll be pinning the OJ murders on him before they get done. And they'll throw in the Black Hole of Calcutta while they're at it, just because it has the word "Black" in it.

Business as usual; why should we expect anything else?

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

I knew there was more to it, thanks for the link I just haven't had a ton of time on my own to research fully. Anything I see on Fox news or its related shows I know is put there for political bias of the right wing.

yeah I read that FBI thing about the subpoenas earlier today. I made a comment about it earlier loosely but didn't get as specific as you.

I am just curious, how are we a peacefully united country? As it stands now we are loosely united, and it is falling apart rapidly, by fear mongering, chemical warfare, anthrax, you aren't safe, you can be killed at any time from anywhere, weapons of mass destruction, a war on Oil, 300 billion dollars in more military debt, a lowered economy and now raised taxes that also just got approved today.

The Democrats and Republicans can not help us one bit. We need reform in this country from the ground up to fix everything at the root, and let the rest fall in place.

We also today became the #2 economy in the world for the first time in a long time. Europe is now #1, because of the decrease in value of our dollar. Way to go Bush administration!

Way to go Democrats, tax cuts will be gone and the taxes will be raised. Just what the economy needs, more from the middle class when the people need the help. Way to go Pelosi ...

Oh yeah... and by the way, CNN and MSNBC are the political bias of the left wing.

We're are back to the same complacency we had as a society before September 11th ... largely due to the efforts to prevent another attack. Today, the Democrats gutted the Patriot Act, largely restricting what can be tapped for intelligence on terrorist intentions.

When we get attacked the next time, the Democrats will say it is because we did not do enough when the reality will be due to their gutting of intelligence gathering tools. Maybe they'll say we just had it coming?

Thanks Democrats...

[troy2000]

Here's a concept, Larry: if you're going to spend money like a drunken sailor, you have to have some coming in. That simple logic seems to have escaped the Republicans for more than a few years now, as they repeatedly cut taxes to businesses and the wealthy, while spending money faster and faster anyway.

C'mon: cutting taxes during wartime? No one in the history of our country has ever been that idiotic before.

We're probably going to get stuck with higher taxes in the future no matter what happens, because sooner or later the spending spree Bush and his cohorts in Congress went on while cutting taxes will have to paid for somehow.

[tlarkin]

We had enough intelligence for 9/11 and other countries even warned us about it Larry. That is known. We have to raise taxes now to get rid of our debt, because of the current administration has ran our dollar value and our economy into the ground. Condi came out and bold faced lied to all of us, saying that we never had any intelligence or even an idea they would use planes as missiles. Yet both the Pentagon and NORAD had run that exact exercise before of planes being used as missiles. On top of that, NORAD just happened to be running the same war game exercise of planes being hijacked on 9/11.

Don't have enough intelligence, I call bullshit. What has the Bush administration done? Created more government, via Home land security and tis many branches, and stripped away our rights via patriot act. It is asinine what they have done to our rights and our privacy. Now there are talks about transparency instead of big brother, but even that is BS.

I don't see why Republicans have to back him up just because you are a Republican. His administration is god awful. I mean Ashcroft lost to a dead guy, that is how bad he is, he lost to a guy who died before the election. What does that tell you about him? The current administration sucks, and has sucked since the beginning. They have used 9/11 to line their pockets and everything they have done was in self interest. They lied, broke the law, and got away with it.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Here's a concept, Larry: if you're going to spend money like a drunken sailor, you have to have some coming in. That simple logic seems to have escaped the Republicans for more than a few years now, as they repeatedly cut taxes to businesses and the wealthy, while spending money faster and faster anyway.

C'mon: cutting taxes during wartime? No one in the history of our country has ever been that idiotic before.

We're probably going to get stuck with higher taxes in the future no matter what happens, because sooner or later the spending spree Bush and his cohorts in Congress went on while cutting taxes will have to paid for somehow.

Repeatedly cut taxes of businesses and the wealthy... you seem to forget I am talking about the Middle Class here. Did you go right into your canned speech of class warfare or did you honestly miss the fact I was talking about the Middle Class?

Kinda like raising the taxes because of all the pork that the Democrats just wrote into law while gutting the Patriot Act?

... Just because I'm in the military and a Republican, you assume I am a Bush supporter? Surely you jest ...

I knew I'd get bashed by Troy2k and tlarkin ... try placing the blame on both sides where it belongs...

[ArkansasHunter]

I just watched the video and I'm appalled that a preacher that profess'es the Gospel or the word of God can be so radical.
This guy is wrong !!! And misguided and is preaching his onw words, not Gods.
A.H

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

I just watched the video and I'm appalled that a preacher that profess'es the Gospel or the word of God can be so radical.
This guy is wrong !!! And misguided and is preaching his onw words, not Gods.
A.H

I agree with you on this.