[ArkansasHunter]

I wonder the likely hood of this feller being able to get a full auto rifle, and it better be by a legal means or his boody is in hot Lava if'in he's caught.
Lets repect the laws because we gun owners have a fine line to walk these days I'm sorry to say...A.H

[Rex in OTZ]

870 12Ga with buck shot
nobody wants to argue with those
then switch to slug's to get there attention when tey are hiding behind the car.

[KingMusa45]

i prefer the ak47.thats what i've shot for years and i love it.the ammo is everywere,& it is rugged. high cap mags make caring lots of ammo a snap.i've practised alot and am not into spray and pray cause of hi caps.if any thing i two to three rond burst at close range. i am disaplinded enough to keep to stick and move at range & good enough to touch you at 250 without a scope.i would try to avoid conflict as much as possable but if i had to i would opt for staying to covered areas .in a few more months ill have to rethink my tactics cause my girl will also be trained and armed. an army of two and a half.

[Jersey Jailer]

depends on use, where you gonna be? if its an urban environment an m-16 m-4 or an HK UMP 45 If your in the jungle or in open terrane I'd go with a 308 my first choice is the m14 next the ar10

[KingMusa45]

for me im right outside of a major metropalitan. and my rout out takes me no where near it. between my side arm and my yugo im good til i hit open country. here theres not much of that til you get way up in the mountains.

[SwedeSteve]

I too believe it comes down to terrain, and also it's a weight issue. If you are in true survival mode, then you are moving at night. So this becomes a major issue as well.

[nathangdad]

a submachinegun can be a liability as it burns up ammo you may
not be able to replace plus the noise tells the whole world, so to speak,
where you are at the moment. Even if you have some type suppressor the bullets will be beyond the speed of sound so you can still lose on the sound situation.

Better to have a long range target gun with a high quality scope. Fire and move then observe what you hit from a different vantage point.

[JMcDonald]

Why are you guys counting on and planning on sniping people hundreds of yards away and staying concealed? Are you guys just going to be cappin' people as they try to run to safety? Perhaps you will name yourself guardian of the city and protect the innocent from the rooftops? In reality of an On-The-Run situation, if you are truely that far from your target and already have the advantage of stealth, then there is no reason you should be actively trying to kill them unless you know it is a direct threat to YOU that you can also easily stop. Basically, sniping roaming thugs won't do anything to increase your survivability if you are also on the move. Sniping LEOs or military force is going to hurt you (and everyone else) more than help you. Sniping a zombie at hundreds of yards isn't going to do anything except alert others to your position or at least your existance, not to mention that at 500+ yards, a zombie probably has many other targets than yourself that it would go after.

In a fixed position, I could potentially see the viability of a long-range weapon, as you most likely have a known and potentially desirable position that would be worth defending at longer ranges. However, when defensively on the run, there are not many reasons to need to shoot that far.

These reasons are why I prefer a pistol-caliber carbine when on the run.

One advantage to a pistol caliber carbine is the size of the cartridges. A bag of 100 rounds is about the size of my fist. The same volume of 7.62x39 cartridges is going to be what, 30-40 rounds? At the same time, the magazines are much smaller, meaning you could carry many more magazines in the same space and thus go much longer without having to refill mags. I can fit three 10rd, 9mm mags in the same space of one 10rd AR15 mag.

Another advantage to a pistol-caliber carbine is its relatively quiet report and small muzzle flash. This will help maintain night vision, it will allow for a greater degree of stealth compared to a rifle cartridge, and at the same time allow you to better conserve your hearing (I am not talking about having to use a hearing aid 20 years later, I am talking about hearing the second BG / zombie coming up behind you).

As far as accuracy and range, a 9mm rifle can hit quite accurately to 150 yards on a calm day (probably <6" groups), and the HP 995 has been known to be able to hit a torso at 200 yards with practice. Sighted at 100 yards, it will hit about 12" below aiming point at 150 yards on a calm day, and hit no higher than about 3" above POA using 115gr FMJ, supersonic bullets (like WWB). At 150 yards its velocity is still in the 900ft/s range and is thus still capable of much more than adequate penetration.

If you are shooting at people with body armor, chances are you are in way over your head anyways, regardless of what you are holding. There is of course the chance that a few thugs happened to get ahold of some BA and are trying to break into your house or whatever, in which case the rifle cartridge might have been handy. However, let's stick to Occam's Razor. Realistically, in a situation like what we've been describing, you'd be more likely to have twice the ammo than you would be to actually need rifle cartridges for penetrating body armor. Basically, I am saying that most people with body armor will either be law enforcement (meaning you would likely be unjustified in killing them) or military (meaning it would be unlikely you'd survive a fight with them anyways).

[nathangdad]

While I respect your point of view I do wish to say in no way would I plan to shoot innocent people. My point of view comes from just wanting to keep distance from potential trouble but be ready to deal with it safely and quickly if need arises.

It is my theme to stay away from trouble as much as possible.

[JMcDonald]

That is exactly my point. If I am running around trying to get to some secondary location, the last thing I want to do is even let an enemy know that I exist at all. If you are running through the woods and know there are some thugs over the next hill rummaging through an abandoned house, stopping to take them out from attop said hill wouldn't help your situation.

All I am saying is that if you are trying to evade and survive, there is little need to be killing anyone that is not directly in your way. And if they are hundreds of yards away chances are it would be much safer to go around, ESPECIALLY if they don't yet know you are there, than to try to snipe them all and either give up your direction (in the case of other roaming thugs / zombies homing in on your fire) or give them reason to send out scouts to find you (more likely from a large group / military).

The only reason I can see needing a longer-range rifle (say, 300+ yards) when on the run would be if you HAD to travel by roads (I.E. have young children unable to traverse the terrain or survive harsh conditions). It is then possible that you might face road blocks or enemies along the open road and thus have to fight it out at the longer strait distances.

One other reason I can see the need for at least one long-range weapon would be if you are traveling in a large group. It would be harder to maintain stealth with a large group, so you might actually have to risk taking out enemies from further distances in order to keep your group safe. Futhermore, with a larger number of able people (say, 10+) it would be easier to diversify the weapons (allow one or two members to carry the long range rifles, not to mention other types of weapons).

However, if you are traveling with a small group (perhaps just your family with only one or two able fighters), the benefits of a better short-range weapon will outweigh those of a long-range weapon.

Of course, from a fixed position (like from a fortified house), then a long-range weapon would be easy to keep around and the necessity to take out enemies from further away would be much greater and they would obviously know that your location exists and you'd really have no way to hide it or "go around" like when on foot. Basically, I am not discounting the potential benefit of a long-range rifle, I am just saying that the extra weight and space it would take up in a small party do not justify the small amount of use it would have over the primary assault weapon.

[Turbo]

If you are going to run with an M-4, SOPMOD or something of the like go with MK262MOD0 rounds. The shorter barrel tends to limit the distance at which you can achieve core separation in the body. That obviously reduces lethality. MK262 solves that problem.

[Mike Franklin]

I'm afraid that most folks somehow equate survival with guerrilla warfare.
Joining up with a group of folks in the country and trying to hunt and grow
and stay alive is a pretty good plan. Using Rambo as your survival role model is a reciept for disaster. Sniping some guy then finding out he was the Chaplin for a Company of Marines may not turn out well for you.

[billy]

as far as survival goes.
give me a fishing pole.
mobs of zombies?
yes i have some guns.

[SwedeSteve]

As was so eloquently put a long time back, If you saw me, heard me, or smelled me (hush billy), I failed.

[TheWanderingMind]

Quote:       Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

As was so eloquently put a long time back, If you saw me, heard me, or smelled me (hush billy), I failed.

Amen, Steve! Stealth is more than just an airplane...

My own philosophy would echo Cyrano. Nine mil on my hip and a nine mil over my shoulder... With a .22LR survival rifle shoved into my pack.

[kalashnikov47]

easy...

The Kalashnikov.

"It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it"

-lord of war

[tbonecpk]

Personaly I would use an M14 with the new EBR stock. it's a lot lighter than the standard M14 because the stock is made out of aluminum versus wood and also adds the compactibility and customization of the M-16 family of firearms. Oh not to mention it is a lot easier to control because of the lack of a pivot point in the stock. It's in my opinion that with the EBR stock the M14 has everything rolled into one package (and to answer the question of if it's so good why isnt it in service with the military right now? the answer is that it currently is with the SEALs). As for my sidearm I would have to go with either a .45 or .40SW M1911.

[Ferroflame]

Well lets assume that all heck has broken lose on the West Coast (Because the People's Republic of California is crazy). I live in Kentucky, and this heck that has broken lose is rapidly moving East. What do I do? I have anywhere from 3-5 days to react. Everyone else is in a panic. Do I stay in my home and wait for this heck to pass by? Do I run away to Europe? Do I run off into the Mountains and/or forests of my native state?

Well this all depends on how bad this heck is. Lets pretend that it's a Communist Invasion. They're killing everyone. On one is being spared. Not the women or children or old people or whatever. They're bloodcrazy commies.

What about our Military? Can't they stop the Commies? What if they can't do anything about it? What if they've already been defeated? Should I run? Should I stay and wait for my death?

Lets say that I run. I decide that, because all the airlines are shut down, I can't go to Europe. (Darn. T_T) I guess I'll have to go live in the forest now with my neighbors and family. Woo!

Lets see...

There's me, my dad, my mom, my brother, my two next door neighbors, and my neighbor that lives across the street...

My dad's a good shot. My brother (surprisingly) is a pretty good shot. I think I'm a pretty good shot. My neighbors are... Well I don't know what they are. I doubt they own any firearms, and have probably never shot one ever. Lovely. The neighbor infront of my house is a 'Nam Vet'... So he's had military training, right? He'd know what to do.

So, assuming we have access to any gun in the whole world that we could ever want...

I grab an AK-47 with synthetic furniture, my dad gets the classic Remington Model 700 (because he'd probably be the best shot of all of us. His dad didn't give him an allowance as a kid. He gave him a brick of ammunition.), my bro takes the Remington 870, so we have that close range power, and all of my neighbors can have an AR-15.

Now then...

We set off into the woods to live through this crazy communist invasion...




And then we all die because we only brought guns and didn't think to pack anything else that would help us survive like knives, firestarters, water filtering tablets, survival guides, local wildlife and plant guides, maps, compasses, flashlights, shelter, hazardous weather clothing, a change of underwear, an English to Communist's Language dictionary, or gun cleaning and field repair kits.

:] Think beyond guns, guys. Haha. I know this is a firearm forum but this is the survival subforum. Go watch bushcraft videos on Youtube for 5 hours like I did. It's a life changing experience.

[Seabeescotty]

Once you go through a few military survival schools, it becomes second nature, to grab everything needed to get through it. Matter of fact, after seeing this, I think I'll reload the old Alice pack, and set it back up for a quick exit. My horse doesn't like the way I look with that pack on, but once in the saddle, he can't see me, and settles right down. Even got freeze-dried winter rats. They're lighter, and will keep your strength going, even thought they're not the tastiest food in the world!

[sc928porsche]

I am becoming fond of my Siaga in 7.62x51