Seat Belt Law

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by YankeeSpirit76

There's no question that wearing a seatbelt saves lives, but do we need or want the government telling us what to do? I have a real problem with that. I agree that it should be mandatory for kids because some people aren't smart enough to protect the kids and they can't make that decision for themselves. As long as what I'm doing doesn't endanger anyone around me the government should stick to what it's supposed to do...run the country's buisness, not mine.
Wonder why the founding fathers didn't make laws like wearing a belt on your saddle so you don't fall off your horse because that's safer.

If you're not wearing your seatbelt, you are endangering the public! Read my previous post.

[YankeeSpirit76]

I think your grasping there Bob.

[TXplt]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

If you're not wearing your seatbelt, you are endangering the public! Read my previous post.

I don't believe this is correct -- the "simultaneous consumption" concept of not being strapped in in a car (unlike speeding, drunk driving, or driving recklessly) is fairly negligible in that you have a very good chance of being along for the ride whether or not you're belted. You could do damage to someone else in the car as a projectile, but you'd have to know how the crash was going to occur. In any case, the primary damage to others that you have control over is in how much they pay for you.

Don't get me wrong, I believe not being strapped in (or not wearing a helmet) is pretty damn stupid; the question and issue is does our government have a place to regulate this. I say no. They do have a right to hold you accountable for the $ cost of your buffoonery after the fact in the resources it takes to patch you up, even if this means you're pouring concrete for public works projects for the rest of your life. I actually think this approach (if enforced) would not only be more libertarian, but also more effective. My risk of loss is now not a couple of hundred, but hundreds of thousands.

[K75RT]

Here is my take, If you drive a car and you wear a seat belt you are better protected than the driver who does not wear it... I ride motorcycles, too. If a biker rides a bike with a helmet he or she is better protected against brain injury if they wear a helmet. I ride enduro mostly, therefore a rider in the woods wears a chest protector, a helmet, knee/shin guards, hard boots, elbow guards and a neck guard. If I dump I stand a better odds of riding again than the rider who doesn't wear protection. Those that say loud pipes save lives are mistaken....Helmets, leather, boots and common sense save lives. Laws are for litigation. I tend to wear protective equipment

[Wingwiper]

Well folks, for all of you who claim it is either stupid or endangering others how the Hell can you conclude this when the FACT of the matter is that ONLY 55% of those killed in the entire Nation were NOT wearing seat belts? simple MATH says that 45% WERE. When it is THAT close, I will make my own decision and as I wrote earlier, I would have been killed had I been wearing mine. My wife was also thrown from a VW Beetle and that was what saved her, good thing she wasn't wearing one either.

Don't you all find your theories to be leaking a bit when 2005 was one of the deadliest years on record for Highway fatalities and that was with almost 90% seatbelt usage, crumple zones, ABS, air bags, Five Star Crash Tests, ESP, Traction Control etc etc. How can you all say that it SAVES LIVES when the facts say it only gives you a 5% better chance? that is 5% better odds than 50/50.. I choose NOT to wear them and everyone has an opinion and everyone has a choice based on that opinion. People who live in WOOD houses have a better chance for them to burn down, but do they? People who live in trailers are more apt to be hit with a Tornado or if it catches fire, it will burn Hot and fast... but are there laws saying they can't live in trailers or that they must live in Fireproof homes? of course not and I do not think it should be law when all it is, is a pretty poor gamble for me to wear a seat belt, If I told you all that you had a 45% chance to survive if you got in a plane with me, would you? how about the same odds for anything would you even think of reacting to such poor odds? of course not, but you all will defend seat belt use with te same odds? hmmmmmm interesting, why shouldn't it be a choice?

Recently I am sure you all have been reading about the School Bus accidents and some really bad ones too and yet out of all the kids on the buses, all were NOT wearing seat belts and only four have died.That means if you take the percentages of those involved on those bus accidents who were NOT wearing seat belts it would be 100% and only 4 out of sever dozen were killed, seems the odds were in favor of NOT wearing them, don;t yo think? maybe, it is just me and maybe I do not understand the odds as they are written by the NHTSA, maybe the 55% who were killed were NOT wearing Seat belts, meant something entirely different..

[soonerborn]

Well I guess I will chime in too.

First the purpose of the seatbelt laws isnt to get people to buckle up and "save lives", its to generate revenue. Thats it.

The government has no business dictating what you should be doing or how you do it as long as you dont cause harm to another person or damage property that isnt yours. PERIOD.

Using the same logic that some people are using here "Its ok because it saves lives" could easily be used to regulate what you eat or drink. After all banning high fat foods would "save lives" and lower insurance rates and medicare expenses. Its my right though, at least it still is today, to slam double quarter ponders and double fist dr. peppers all day long, regardless of how detrimental it is to my health.

We just cant and shouldnt protect the stupid from their own stupidity. If I want to rocket down the freeway at 65mph with just a few inches of sheet metal and fiberglass between me and death then I should be allowed to be as stupid as I want to be. All of the stats about saving lives isnt in the least bit relative to this point.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by TXplt

I don't believe this is correct -- the "simultaneous consumption" concept of not being strapped in in a car (unlike speeding, drunk driving, or driving recklessly) is fairly negligible in that you have a very good chance of being along for the ride whether or not you're belted. You could do damage to someone else in the car as a projectile, but you'd have to know how the crash was going to occur. In any case, the primary damage to others that you have control over is in how much they pay for you.

Don't get me wrong, I believe not being strapped in (or not wearing a helmet) is pretty damn stupid; the question and issue is does our government have a place to regulate this. I say no. They do have a right to hold you accountable for the $ cost of your buffoonery after the fact in the resources it takes to patch you up, even if this means you're pouring concrete for public works projects for the rest of your life. I actually think this approach (if enforced) would not only be more libertarian, but also more effective. My risk of loss is now not a couple of hundred, but hundreds of thousands.

I assure you that I too, dislike any branch of government telling me how to live my life, but I've seen enough training films on seatbelt use to become a believer. Remember that driving is a privilege, not a right. I saw the aftermath of an idiot not wearing his seatbelt. 12 people lost there lives on I-35 in Moore, OK. early one Sunday morning in the mid 1980's because of one man without his seatbelt on. He didn't survive either.

[Sins-of-Mosin]

You are using a massive school bus for an example? Car hits bus, bus says what tickled me?

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

Ok folks, let's look at this from a different angle. If you loose control of your car or are hit with a glancing blow, you're probably going to be thrown into the passengers side, the back seat, or through the glass, as your vehicle continues to travel. Your flopping around somewhere other than behind the wheel of your vehicle. It is now truly out of control as it slams into another vehicle and kills everyone in that vehicle. A 28 year old mother and her two children............I think I'll just buckle up. If not for me,...... for them.

Brother Bob, Do you think that people should not be allowed to ride motorcycles???

Somebody bumps a motorcycle driver going 70mph, they are coming off the bike guaranteed. Probably going to get ran over, and the bike will probably cause other drivers to wreck. So the government should ban motorcycles???

What about older vehicles??? I would probably be more likely to survive going 100mph into oncoming traffic with my 2007 sierra, than i would be to turn my 1981 Jeep over while turning into my driveway regardless of how many seatbelts i have on the vehicle is a death trap, but I love it. I also refuse to wear the back breaker lap belts it has.


If you can't understand that this is a example of the government taking liberties without warrant, then how can you defend gun ownership??? Guns actually do kill people. Kids shoot one another, husbands find cheating wives, people go on shoot people for no reason. People can shout about the 2nd ammendment all they want, but that can be misinterpeted by people wanting to surpress individuals rights to own guns.

Dumb A$$ people actually believe that by eliminating guns they will eliminate gun crime, and save lives, just as proponents of seat-belt laws believes they are saving lives.

The question is where shall the line be drawn. Who is to decide what I choose to do with my own personal life???

I personally think the government's only function should be to protect people from hurting people.

[tommy]

we have the bumpiest roads around thats why we have so many getting killed on them.the poiltitians are to buissy pocketing the money instead of fixing the roads.

Originally Posted by Big Tool

I was on the highway saftey website and they have a chart showing the number of fatatlitites before and after the seatbelt laws, and although most states marginally decreased some actually increased. Louisiana in particular increased by 14%.

Sure seatbelts can save lives, and to people who don't mind wearing them there isn't a problem at all. They think it is just common sense and that others should just get over it. Same thing for religion. Christians would have no problem with the government requring that all U.S citizens convert to christianity. Many Pray for it daily.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by tommy

we have the bumpiest roads around thats why we have so many getting killed on them.the poiltitians are to buissy pocketing the money instead of fixing the roads.

Ain't that the truth. It makes my head hurt driving on LA roads. Even poor old Mississippi has better roads. Especially when crossing over the state line on Interstate 59.

I'm heading over to that part of the world this weekend to sell some tires. Wish me luck.

[tommy]

i don't think there has been any accidents where someone fell asleep at the wheel in louisiana. if so they must be able to sleep through anything.

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by Sins-of-Mosin

You are using a massive school bus for an example? Car hits bus, bus says what tickled me?

Sins,

No one is strapped inside, and have you ever seen a massive, heavy bus or truck when it is out of control? I was a trucker for awhile and I have seen some big trucks almost dissappear into the ledges west of Knoxville on I-40. There ain't a whole lot left.

The point is...... the kids are bouncing around inside like popcorn in a popper.

Also did you all know that if you have a Full bladder and you slam on your brakes and the belt ruptures your bladder, you only have minutes to live. You all are speaking of what you have seen or heard from injuries without belts. You should see the damage that is done by belts or by being strapped into the seat and NOT thrown? I can probably give the same scenerios for injuries with belts as you all can give without belts. Still it should be CHOICE.
You defend the use of Belts like the anti gunners defend the Control of Guns...... whooops! that was a bit below the belt...sorry...

[bigbuddy21]

everyone is missing the point of the orig. post.sure seatbelts save lives, but what right does the govt. have in passing a law saying that you have to wear one.
can't you see that the politicians and bureaucrats are slowly taking away all of our rights. and slowly taking over every aspect of our lives.

if they would try this in one fell swoop we wouldn't stand for it, but by doing it incrementaly they think that we're too stupid to notice that their taking over
our daily lives.

give them an inch and they'll want a foot. give them a foot and they'll want a yrd.

its time that we stand up to them, and take back our country!

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by bigbuddy21

everyone is missing the point of the orig. post.sure seatbelts save lives, but what right does the govt. have in passing a law saying that you have to wear one.
can't you see that the politicians and bureaucrats are slowly taking away all of our rights. and slowly taking over every aspect of our lives.

if they would try this in one fell swoop we wouldn't stand for it, but by doing it incrementaly they think that we're too stupid to notice that their taking over
our daily lives.

give them an inch and they'll want a foot. give them a foot and they'll want a yrd.

its time that we stand up to them, and take back our country!

That's what i'm talking about. But how??

Most people are happy just being sheep, and miss the big picture of what is really occuring.

Who do we really need to be complaining to??? Senators, govenors, media, representives, etc.

[YankeeSpirit76]

Big Buddy,
Thank you, that was my entire point. The government has to creep in and take control of our lives gradually. If they did it all at once there would be another revolution and they know that. So they take a little today, everyone gets angry but soon forgets about it allowing them to take a little more tomorrow, and on and on until one day everybody wakes up to a dictatorship or some government gone completely out of control.
Our constitution and all of our legal system is based on British common law. They to used to be free and proud people but look what has happened to them since. Every decision in there lives are made by the government, from their health care to being completely disarmed as free citizens and like good little sheep they allow it to continue everyday.

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

I assure you that I too, dislike any branch of government telling me how to live my life, but I've seen enough training films on seatbelt use to become a believer. Remember that driving is a privilege, not a right. I saw the aftermath of an idiot not wearing his seatbelt. 12 people lost there lives on I-35 in Moore, OK. early one Sunday morning in the mid 1980's because of one man without his seatbelt on. He didn't survive either.

Bob, If you saw enough training films on obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure etc. would you be in favor of letting the government make it a law for us to eat only what they said we could, or To get a certain amount of exercise daily?

[Wingwiper]

Insurance Companies are the LARGEST Lobby Groups in Washington DC and while we can argue from now till the Cows come home, about Moralality in a law, it has nothing to do with it. It is about the Insurance Companines being able to shift blame for made up reasons that were lobbied for by them, in DC.

[ArkansasHunter]

Haveing been in a pretty bad wreck. If I hadn't of been wearing my seatbelt I would of had recieved some serious if not life taken injuries due to being tossed around inside the vehicle.
In my case the seatbelt kept me from going out the wind shield head first into an embankment .
Don't ever think for one minute you can hold on to the steering wheel, when you impact something hard you'll break free from your grip I know and too if your front wheels leave pavement your steering wheel will free wheel violently and throw you loose from it, I know that too.
The seatbelt and airbags are your only chance of survival in a serious automobile accident.

Side note: There truely are Angels among us, I know ! I met one that day after my company truck came to a stop.

[AKHunter]

I wear a seatbelt always. I have worn a seatbelt always. This began long before any seatbelt laws. I feel it is the safest thing to do opposed to not wearing a belt. I think Government is out of line telling any of us to wear one.

I think one has to consider the insurance industry and their lobbying to get these laws passed. It goes beyond "saving lives" it more effectively reduces injury and severe injury. That saves the insurance industry money. It gives municipal entities/law enforcement another reason to write an additonal violation and take your money.

[lefty o]

seatbelts save more lives than not. wear yours or not, i dont care. insurance companies are the reason we have seatbelt laws, they pushed hard for it through their lobbiest. why? because they determined it cost them a heck of a lot more money if you died.