And if you'll look out the left side of the plane you can see *BANG*

Coeloptera · 03-24-2008, 11:20 AM

Pilot's gun discharges on US Airways flight 12:14 PM | Local News | News for Charlotte, North Carolina | WCNC.com | Top Stories

"CHARLOTTE, N.C.-- A gun carried by a US Airways pilot accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte Saturday, according to a statement released by the airline."

By the way. Moron requalified in the Federal Flight Deck Officer program last November. Gee, only took him 4 months to have a negligent discharge.

- Coeloptera

Earl Easter · 03-24-2008, 11:39 AM

Not a very intelligent thing to do.
I would think he needs some more training.
It sure is a good thing nobody was injured and that the planes navigation system wasn't taken out. But i still believe they should all carry, to eliminate any other problems that may arise. Hopefully a lot more training than what he received....

CrazyIvan · 03-24-2008, 12:22 PM

If he is going to do something stupid, I'd rather it be with his gun and not harm anyone, as it were in this case, than him make a mistake with the flight controls and crash.

TXplt · 03-24-2008, 02:35 PM

Oh oh....

I believe pilots carrying guns is a great idea. However, anyone carrying needs to be careful all of the time, no matter who they are or what they're doing -- it's a big responsibility. AD's/ND's give all of us a bad name (although I'd wait to throw the stones until I know more of what happened--granted these things are almost always the human's fault). The good news is that airplanes are pretty resilient, and it's unlikely a single bullet could do major harm unless it was a very unlucky shot. Guess his new nickname will be Barney......

sell33 · 03-24-2008, 02:41 PM

maybe he has a glock w/o safety? i personally don't think someone new to guns should get a glock....

TXplt · 03-24-2008, 02:46 PM

I believe they're issued H&K's .40's. I personally have no experience with H&K.

Bravo · 03-24-2008, 05:47 PM

Yup, they're H&K USP .40's...as far as I know. I don't know how they're trained to carry these weapons, but my guess is that, in a locked cockpit, it should probably be with the thumb safety on and the hammer down. Just a guess though.

LarryO1970 · 03-24-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo

Yup, they're H&K USP .40's...as far as I know. I don't know how they're trained to carry these weapons, but my guess is that, in a locked cockpit, it should probably be with the thumb safety on and the hammer down. Just a guess though.

I agree... they have a pretty large thumb safety and with the hammer down, should be no reason for that accidental discharge.

GlockMeister · 03-24-2008, 05:58 PM

I also thought they used a smaller charged round, so going through the fuselage wasn't a concern @ say 30,000 feet lol? I could be wrong but I could have sworn I'd heard they were suppose to use a lower or smaller charged round. Maybe it wasn't a lesser charged round, but instead a different type of bullet. I remember when it was first brought up, arming pilots that is, the concern was what happens if a shot goes through the plane @ 30,000ft. Anyone else got and input or hear anything?

toolman · 03-24-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

I also thought they used a smaller charged round, so going through the fuselage wasn't a concern @ say 30,000 feet lol? I could be wrong but I could have sworn I'd heard they were suppose to use a lower or smaller charged round. Maybe it wasn't a lesser charged round, but instead a different type of bullet. I remember when it was first brought up, arming pilots that is, the concern was what happens if a shot goes through the plane @ 30,000ft. Anyone else got and input or hear anything?

There's been quite a bit of testing done on this subject and it's been determined that even a large hole in the fuselage won't cause a major problem.

texnmidwest · 03-24-2008, 06:40 PM

Mythbusters showed that it would take a load of c4 to cause catastrophic damage to a fuselage. One pistol round would not do it

tlarkin · 03-24-2008, 06:54 PM

If its the HK .40 USP, then you can carry it locked and cocked with the safety on, and the hammer is a bit tricky since it is small. My guess is, and this is just a shot in the dark (no pun intended), is that it was locked and cocked and the user of the side arm decided they wanted to disengage the hammer and slipped up and it fired.

Instead you should take out the magazine, then cock the slide to empty the chamber if you have fingers which are too big to grip that bitty hammer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texnmidwest

Mythbusters showed that it would take a load of c4 to cause catastrophic damage to a fuselage. One pistol round would not do it

Nope but one pistol round can break cabin pressure, which is scary enough.

Shaun · 03-25-2008, 11:11 PM

TLarkin 1 pistol round is not going to cause explosive decompression, in fact the level of pressurizatin is controlled by the pilot opening and closing a valve to outside air.

Now this was purely a negligent issue the operator of the firarm placed his finger on the trigger had his finger been off the trigger the discharge would not have taken place. What he needs to do is to learn proper carry practices and then only handle the firearm on an as needed basis like the rest of us. MY guess he was showing it off and squeezed the trigger.

ArkansasHunter · 03-25-2008, 11:14 PM

sell 33 I'll agree "some" don't need to get a Glock.

tlarkin · 03-25-2008, 11:15 PM

I was under the impression that a .40 round could pierce the window or the windshield, and if it were flying high enough would that not affect the cabin pressure?

I am seriously asking because that is what I believe the article had hinted at.

Don't all glocks have trigger safeties, so that you have to actually pull the trigger to fire no matter what, and then when the trigger is not engaged by default the safety is always on?

just_a_car · 03-25-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

Don't all glocks have trigger safeties, so that you have to actually pull the trigger to fire no matter what, and then when the trigger is not engaged by default the safety is always on?

Unless someone modifies it from factory-stock, that is correct. There is also another firing-pin block safety that will not let the firing pin go forward unless the trigger safety has been disengaged.

Coeloptera · 03-25-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

I was under the impression that a .40 round could pierce the window or the windshield, and if it were flying high enough would that not affect the cabin pressure?

I am seriously asking because that is what I believe the article had hinted at.

Don't all glocks have trigger safeties, so that you have to actually pull the trigger to fire no matter what, and then when the trigger is not engaged by default the safety is always on?

Well, remember the sheer volume of air in an object the size of a passenger plane. Also remember it's not a vacuum out there at 30,000 feet, just lower pressure. People skydive from almost half that without oxygen at times. Air will rush out of the hole, but not so as it'd decompress the plane in any major fashion.

We may also have been looking at someone messing with the hammer...or maybe a slamfire. But there's no way of knowing without more details.

- Coeloptera

GlockMeister · 03-26-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texnmidwest

Mythbusters showed that it would take a load of c4 to cause catastrophic damage to a fuselage. One pistol round would not do it

Even when the cabin is pressurized and the planes at 30,000 feet? Hmm, I'll have to watch for that mythbusters episode. lol Personally, I still wouldn't want to be on board for the test or real thing.

Also, I really don't think they were at 30,000 feet and in a pressurized cabin when they tested this myth? I suppose they could get close to real world, but I'm not sure how precise it would be. In watching the show, they are pretty good at doing some test, but others, leave a little to be desired in my book.

I mean take a sniper getting a kill through another snipers scope. They tested it and considered it busted, yet it's fact. There are others and I'm not about to argue the fact of them or this one. But I would definately not want to be on board in a real world situation. lol I'll kindly pass.

AKHunter · 03-26-2008, 12:31 AM

I own and carry a Hk .40sw USP compact. The hammer is small and spurless, I cannot even imagine someone trying to gain a grip on the hammer. This was purely negligent and idiotic on the part of the pilot. As was stated earlier, they do have a large thump operated safety lever and a decocking capability which renders the weapon DA only on the first round.

It is a good thing he can fly a plane better than handle a weapon.

GlockMeister · 03-26-2008, 12:40 AM

Wonder if it happened when he went to pull it out of the holster or something? They never really said much other than it happened did they.

03-24-2008, 11:20 AM	#1
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,901	And if you'll look out the left side of the plane you can see BANG Pilot's gun discharges on US Airways flight 12:14 PM \| Local News \| News for Charlotte, North Carolina \| WCNC.com \| Top Stories "CHARLOTTE, N.C.-- A gun carried by a US Airways pilot accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte Saturday, according to a statement released by the airline." By the way. Moron requalified in the Federal Flight Deck Officer program last November. Gee, only took him 4 months to have a negligent discharge. - Coeloptera

03-24-2008, 12:22 PM	#3
CrazyIvan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Englewood, CO Posts: 2,369	If he is going to do something stupid, I'd rather it be with his gun and not harm anyone, as it were in this case, than him make a mistake with the flight controls and crash. __________________ "Minimum wage, minimum effort." "Never underestimate the power of stupidity." ~Me

03-24-2008, 02:35 PM	#4
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Oh oh.... I believe pilots carrying guns is a great idea. However, anyone carrying needs to be careful all of the time, no matter who they are or what they're doing -- it's a big responsibility. AD's/ND's give all of us a bad name (although I'd wait to throw the stones until I know more of what happened--granted these things are almost always the human's fault). The good news is that airplanes are pretty resilient, and it's unlikely a single bullet could do major harm unless it was a very unlucky shot. Guess his new nickname will be Barney...... __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

03-24-2008, 02:46 PM	#6
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	I believe they're issued H&K's .40's. I personally have no experience with H&K. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

03-24-2008, 05:58 PM	#9
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,522	I also thought they used a smaller charged round, so going through the fuselage wasn't a concern @ say 30,000 feet lol? I could be wrong but I could have sworn I'd heard they were suppose to use a lower or smaller charged round. Maybe it wasn't a lesser charged round, but instead a different type of bullet. I remember when it was first brought up, arming pilots that is, the concern was what happens if a shot goes through the plane @ 30,000ft. Anyone else got and input or hear anything? __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Last edited by GlockMeister; 03-24-2008 at 06:03 PM.

03-24-2008, 11:39 AM	#2
Earl Easter Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 669 Images: 20	Not a very intelligent thing to do. I would think he needs some more training. It sure is a good thing nobody was injured and that the planes navigation system wasn't taken out. But i still believe they should all carry, to eliminate any other problems that may arise. Hopefully a lot more training than what he received....

03-24-2008, 02:41 PM	#5
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,198	maybe he has a glock w/o safety? i personally don't think someone new to guns should get a glock....

03-24-2008, 05:47 PM	#7
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 1,900	Yup, they're H&K USP .40's...as far as I know. I don't know how they're trained to carry these weapons, but my guess is that, in a locked cockpit, it should probably be with the thumb safety on and the hammer down. Just a guess though.

03-24-2008, 06:40 PM	#11
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,472	Mythbusters showed that it would take a load of c4 to cause catastrophic damage to a fuselage. One pistol round would not do it __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

03-25-2008, 11:11 PM	#13
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	TLarkin 1 pistol round is not going to cause explosive decompression, in fact the level of pressurizatin is controlled by the pilot opening and closing a valve to outside air. Now this was purely a negligent issue the operator of the firarm placed his finger on the trigger had his finger been off the trigger the discharge would not have taken place. What he needs to do is to learn proper carry practices and then only handle the firearm on an as needed basis like the rest of us. MY guess he was showing it off and squeezed the trigger. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

03-25-2008, 11:14 PM	#14
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	sell 33 I'll agree "some" don't need to get a Glock.

03-25-2008, 11:15 PM	#15
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,590	I was under the impression that a .40 round could pierce the window or the windshield, and if it were flying high enough would that not affect the cabin pressure? I am seriously asking because that is what I believe the article had hinted at. Don't all glocks have trigger safeties, so that you have to actually pull the trigger to fire no matter what, and then when the trigger is not engaged by default the safety is always on?

03-26-2008, 12:31 AM	#19
AKHunter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 899	I own and carry a Hk .40sw USP compact. The hammer is small and spurless, I cannot even imagine someone trying to gain a grip on the hammer. This was purely negligent and idiotic on the part of the pilot. As was stated earlier, they do have a large thump operated safety lever and a decocking capability which renders the weapon DA only on the first round. It is a good thing he can fly a plane better than handle a weapon.

03-26-2008, 12:40 AM	#20
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,522	Wonder if it happened when he went to pull it out of the holster or something? They never really said much other than it happened did they. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!