EEK! Scary Gun Law...

[CrazyIvan]

I was reading through my local muiciple code and came across this:

7-6C-5: Sale and Display of Weapons.

A. Every pawnbroker, secondhand dealer, or other person engaged in the sale, rental or exchange of any weapons described in this section shall keep a record of each such weapon purchased, sold, rented or exchanged at retail. Said record shall be made at the time of the transaction, in a book kept for that purpose, and shall include the name of the person to whom or from whom such weapon is purchased, sold or rented, or with whom exchanged; his age, physical description, occupation, residence and if residing in a city, the street and number where he resides; the make, caliber and finish of the firearm, together with the number or serial letter thereof if any; the date of the purchase, sale, rental or exchange of such weapon; and the name of the employee or other person making such purchase, sale, rental or exchange. Said record book shall be open upon request at all reasonable times to the inspection of any duly authorized police officer of the City.

First off, this causes alarm for break-in. What if an individual or a group breaks into the establishment and gets ahold of this book? They will in essense have a technical very descriptive way of scoping and robbing individuals' homes of expensive firearms.

Secondly, In a Katrina-type episode...the police have a list of everyone they can go to to take the weapons.

Sickening...

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

I was reading through my local muiciple code and came across this:

First off, this causes alarm for break-in. What if an individual or a group breaks into the establishment and gets ahold of this book? They will in essense have a technical very descriptive way of scoping and robbing individuals' homes of expensive firearms.

Secondly, In a Katrina-type episode...the police have a list of everyone they can go to to take the weapons.

Sickening...

Ok, but that records keeping requirement matches the Federal requirement for FFL dealers.

In short, every gun you or I purchase from a licensed dealer has a form kept by the dealer. In addition, we are listed in the FFL "Bound Book."

I don't like it either.

[CrazyIvan]

I guess in a big SHTF situation, it is best to Bug Out so that the feds can't come & take your guns.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

I was reading through my local muiciple code and came across this:




First off, this causes alarm for break-in. What if an individual or a group breaks into the establishment and gets ahold of this book? They will in essense have a technical very descriptive way of scoping and robbing individuals' homes of expensive firearms.

Secondly, In a Katrina-type episode...the police have a list of everyone they can go to to take the weapons.

Sickening...

Basically, that's the information taken from a driver's license: Name, address, age, height, weight, hair and eyes. And I don't think there's any other way to deal with the problem of fencing stolen guns. If I ever find one of mine went through a pawnshop, the pawnbroker damn well better be able to tell the cops who he bought it from and who he sold it to....

[TheWall]

If they come looking for it just tell them it got broken beyond repair and you cut it in half and trashed it.

[SuckLead]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

First off, this causes alarm for break-in. What if an individual or a group breaks into the establishment and gets ahold of this book? They will in essense have a technical very descriptive way of scoping and robbing individuals' homes of expensive firearms.

Secondly, In a Katrina-type episode...the police have a list of everyone they can go to to take the weapons.

Sickening...

Some have included ways this is done everywhere. Something else you may not be aware of is another bound book which is kept for guns staying in a store for more than one business day. Which means if you leave your guns at the shop to have a scope installed, to be cleaned, whatever you may leave it there for, all that info goes into that bound book, too.

Here's a better thought to have, though. First off, those kinds of books and records are usually kept under lock and key. They are either locked in a desk or kept in a safe. Secondly, you are giving robbers far too much credit. When someone breaks into a gun store, they want guns and money. They take what they can haul out, and usually fast since now the alarms are screaming. They aren't going to waste precious arm space on books that they can barely figure out. They're thinking guns and ammo. The only thing they may also steal is pepper spray and tasers, but probably not. Those books aren't worth the time and effort. If they go to a home during the day or night that they know has guns in it they are aware they may meet their doom. If they go to a gun shop at night, they probably won't.

Most who break into a gun shop are looking for one of two things: 1. to outfit a gang with guns or 2. to grab some guns to make some quick cash with at the local pawn shop. They always over estimate the value of guns and/or think a pawn shop will give them sticker price. If you don't believe me, look at one gun in your collection, decide for yourself without looking in a values book what it is worth, than have a pro give you an appraisal.

Also, if the books don't have all your info, the paperwork you filled out for the sale does. What do you think happens to that paperwork? It stays in the shop. Also under lock and key, but it's all there. Still... not really what they're thinking about when they break into a gun store.

Originally Posted by troy2000

Basically, that's the information taken from a driver's license: Name, address, age, height, weight, hair and eyes. And I don't think there's any other way to deal with the problem of fencing stolen guns. If I ever find one of mine went through a pawnshop, the pawnbroker damn well better be able to tell the cops who he bought it from and who he sold it to....

+1 I fully agree there!

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by TheWall

If they come looking for it just tell them it got broken beyond repair and you cut it in half and trashed it.

Yeah I can see it now:

Mr. ATF agent; all my guns were damaged beyond repair just last month so I threw them away. Sorry you had to make a trip for nothing!

[AKHunter]

If they come looking for it just tell them it got broken beyond repair and you cut it in half and trashed it.
__________________
You only live once, so make sure you shoot twice.

Oh, you mean the gun that fell out of my boat last year while I was on a fishing trip ?

Yeah I was REALLY bummed about the whole ordeal !

[GlockMeister]

Crazy, in Illinois, I have to fill out paperwork like that, that has just about that exact info every time I purchase a firearm. Hell, in Illinois, I even had to do it to get the Gamo Shadow pellet gun I bought for my kid because Illinois considers it a firearm. In fact, as I've said before, in Illinois anything that shoots 700fps or faster and or is .18" in size is considered a firearm.

But yea, that's the norm here. The good thing is, it stays with the FFL. Only gets looked at if the FFL gets caught selling illegally or violates one of the many rules. It is suppose to be illegal for someone to record that info and keep a record of who bought what and who owns what. I'm sure there is one though.

Don't fret over it. I'm sure it's kept in a safe. Otherwise it's on them if it gets lost or stolen. If it gets stolen, then there's no record of who bought what...

Originally Posted by AKHunter

Oh, you mean the gun that fell out of my boat last year while I was on a fishing trip ?

Yeah I was REALLY bummed about the whole ordeal !

Thing is though, by law you're suppose to report a lost or stolen weapon. So if you use that excuse, you better be prepared for them to ask for a copy of that report, the report # or ask to see a copy of it that you have as you're suppose to keep it for I believe 10 years or something like that.

Not as good an idea as one might think. lol And if you say you lost it in the water or whatever, and can't prove it, expect to take a ride in the back seat and get a court date...

[TXplt]

Actually, It sounds alot like the ATF records / logs form a type of "de-facto" gun registration. Although they don't necessarily have a central database, in the event of a gun confiscation initiative I can't see how these records couldn't all be seized and used to find firearms owners. Warrants could be obtained because there was "probable cause" due to your name being in the book/on the form as a firearm owner and your dwelling/property could be searched.

Boy, I hope I'm wrong.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

I was reading through my local muiciple code and came across this:




First off, this causes alarm for break-in. What if an individual or a group breaks into the establishment and gets ahold of this book? They will in essense have a technical very descriptive way of scoping and robbing individuals' homes of expensive firearms.

Secondly, In a Katrina-type episode...the police have a list of everyone they can go to to take the weapons.

Sickening...

I would hope that the book is kept in a safe that is not easily opened, moved, etc. ... kinda like classified information.

Katrina-type episode, this law has already been passed by most states, even Wisconsin. In this state, it is illegal for guns to be confiscated during a state or national emergency, period. Actually, this was just signed into law last month.

[CrazyIvan]

Hah...yea, they can illegalize anything they want...whether they keep to the law is another story. Heck, illegal immigration is illegal...yet our govt. allows it.

Just because they pass a law that says they aren't to take your guns, do you think they will follow it? I don't. I think it is just a law to give gun owners a cushy feeling and false sense of security from seizure.

[ezearln]

Sorry but it seems to me as if the local authority has exceeded the scope of their juristiction. The basic concept as I understand it is that the federal government has SOLE juristiction in all manners in regards to the sale transfer and possession of firearms. Those states that still insist upon mimicking the actions of the federal government have reserved almost without exception those rights to themselves meaning in essence no local or municipal goverment has the authority to take such actions. In other words the township or village has no legal authority to make or enforce such laws!

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by ezearln

Sorry but it seems to me as if the local authority has exceeded the scope of their juristiction. The basic concept as I understand it is that the federal government has SOLE juristiction in all manners in regards to the sale transfer and possession of firearms. Those states that still insist upon mimicking the actions of the federal government have reserved almost without exception those rights to themselves meaning in essence no local or municipal goverment has the authority to take such actions. In other words the township or village has no legal authority to make or enforce such laws!

Earl, I believe that not only do local municipalities have the power to regulate pawnbrokers, it's in the public interest to do so. Do you really want thieves being able to sell their loot anonymously to pawn shops? .

And no, the federal government doesn't have sole jurisdiction over firearms. Otherwise, California couldn't have kept its assault weapons ban in place after the federal one sunsetted; North Carolina wouldn't be able to require a permission slip from the local sheriff before buying a handgun, etc.

Traditionally, states have had the power to enact different or stricter laws and regulations in most areas than the federal ones. And in many areas, local governments can do the same with state laws (for example, counties banning mail-order shipments of ammunition). Otherwise, we might as well scrap state and local governments entirely and rule from Washington.

[stalebiscuit]

Originally Posted by AKHunter

Oh, you mean the gun that fell out of my boat last year while I was on a fishing trip ?

Yeah I was REALLY bummed about the whole ordeal !

ya, i uhhhh

uhhh, hmmmm, wait a second "honey did i ever own a gun"

"no? your sure"

ok guess i didnt own any after all

[CrazyIvan]

"I already told that last guy who worked for you guys when he came last week...that I already gave them all to the guy who came the first time...that Marshal.....Dillon (lol) was his name!!!! I'm still pissed about that!"

[stalebiscuit]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

"I already told that last guy who worked for you guys when he came last week...that I already gave them all to the guy who came the first time...that Marshal.....Dillon (lol) was his name!!!! I'm still pissed about that!"

hehe "ya they just came and got them, funny thing is they didnt look like cops and didnt have ID on them, but they just had one of those faces ya know, the trusting kind"

[GlockMeister]

Originally Posted by TXplt

Actually, It sounds alot like the ATF records / logs form a type of "de-facto" gun registration. Although they don't necessarily have a central database, in the event of a gun confiscation initiative I can't see how these records couldn't all be seized and used to find firearms owners. Warrants could be obtained because there was "probable cause" due to your name being in the book/on the form as a firearm owner and your dwelling/property could be searched.

Boy, I hope I'm wrong.

We can only hope these records, in the event of gun confiscation, somehow disappear. Don't think the sellers will be all that happy about gun confiscation either. It means their lively hood in most cases as well as their guns also...