04-03-2008, 05:12 PM
| #41 | |
| "Blazing Saddles" GOV   Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI
Posts: 2,931
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It is what it is ... | |
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04-03-2008, 06:25 PM
| #42 |
| Banned Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 789
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I walked from a Bus station to home, 27 miles away in Full Dress Greens with a Seabag, AWOL Bag and Ditty bag and I had bottles thrown at me and the whole nine yards. The point of bringing this up was not looking for pity or calling myself or any Vet a victim, the point was this is the WELCOME we got and we FOUGHT the enemy and didn't sleep with him. Why did we earn this kind of DISRESPECT, except for Troy and she gets the FORGIVING ROUTINE??? That was my point. Those who serve seem to accept the bad treatment, while those who commit treason yell for FORGIVENESS and whine when they don't get it. Larry We had Major Riots back then and we had Kent State, Vietnam was the FIRST WAR to be brought home, semi-live to the living rooms and people drew sides and strong opinions. We didn't come home to any fanfare at all, usually we rotated in and back with little or no attention. The GIs today get far more support than we ever got and they need more, much more they need 100% support and there is a big improvement over WesPac or the WAR IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. I am happy to see the people rally for the GIs today and I am happy to see the parades for them etc. It is a wonderful change but still far short of where it should be. Traitors deserve no respect and I give none. Not looking for pity, been too many years for that crap. Jane Fonda will always be a traitor and deserves a life sentence as does any criminal and if the courts don't want to try her and make her serve, then the Vets will and have. |
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04-03-2008, 08:37 PM
| #43 |
| "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI
Posts: 2,931
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In most places... veterans get a welcome response. in others... such as college towns, the students are influenced by their peers... even some college professors... and the welcome is what we got... baby killer comments, sneers and spitters. We never got a parade... just the comments of "we'll see you back here in a week to report back to duty"... period. I was actually called a baby killer in front of my wife by a teenage college student. How do you suppose that made me (and her) feel? It was completely baseless an completely wrong. Last edited by LarryO1970; 04-03-2008 at 08:40 PM. |
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04-03-2008, 08:41 PM
| #44 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Iowa
Posts: 758
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I remember traveling in uniform and people always wanting to buy me drinks, especially in New England. Most were WWII and Korean Vets. Never been spit at or called names by anyone. Maybe it was the Green Beret and the jump boots. Maybe it was just respect for the soldier. Hollywood always seemed to portray us as wackos(oops. check my handle) but I could care less. I KNOW what and who I am. Actually, I was one of the lucky ones as I never saw combat. Too busy repairing radios.
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04-03-2008, 08:48 PM
| #45 | |
| The Mayor  |  Quote:
__________________ The Most Expensive Commodity In This Country Is Ignorance! | |
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04-03-2008, 08:56 PM
| #46 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Iowa
Posts: 758
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No one ever called me names while I was in uniform. I remember being bought drinks, especially in New England and mostly by WWII and Korean war Vets. Maybe it was the jump boots and Green Beret. Maybe it was just respect for the soldier. But mark my words, I would stomp the kidneys outa anyone I saw spitting in any soldiers face. Disagree with him but never disrespect him.
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04-03-2008, 08:56 PM
| #47 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,279
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__________________ "My Shotgun SAYS I AM the POLICE !"--Mooseman684 "I like Turtles!" youtube kid | |
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04-03-2008, 09:15 PM
| #48 | |
| Lost in the Ozone Again  | Quote:
Bob, this is an excellent point and I think we need to keep it in our cross check when we travel. When you're going from here to there and you see one of our troops, please make it a point to thank him/her for their service. If somehow you've wound up in 1st or Business, consider switching seats with a servicemember in the back. We owe these folks a great deal. Thank you.
__________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas | |
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04-03-2008, 09:25 PM
| #49 | |
| The Mayor | Quote:
__________________ The Most Expensive Commodity In This Country Is Ignorance! | |
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04-04-2008, 12:46 AM
| #50 | |
| Resident Armed Liberal  | Quote:
I went to college at Rio Hondo, between El Monte and Whittier, and as mentioned earlier I was in the Theater Department; I designed and built sets, and did stage lighting. I don't know how I missed the flak either, unless there was a whole lot less of it than people think there was. There seems to be some kind of mythology built up that portrays the whole country as treating us like pieces of crap, and I think it's an insult to the country to pretend that a relative handful of noisy jerks represented the mood of the nation. None of my family, friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers or classmates ever held it against me that I had worn a uniform. And no stranger ever got in my face about it, either; if one had, I'd have kicked his ****. Getting back to Jane Fonda: I don't like her politics or what she did. But I don't demand that entertainers meet my ideas of political correctness before I'll watch a movie they're in. I think it's ridiculous to pretend that seeing them on the screen somehow validates their political beliefs or personal lives.
__________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr Last edited by troy2000; 04-04-2008 at 12:55 AM. | |
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04-04-2008, 08:37 AM
| #52 | |
| Banned Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 789
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No one was building you up to anything and no one was trying to make you or anyone else a Hero or a victim. I was making a point that the returning Vets of Vietnam were treated far more harshly than Jane Fonda. I and many others were treated pretty bad by people in our age group and yet when I traveled, American, Eastern and United all put the Military Stand-bys in First Class. I had drinks bought for me in bars all over the U.S. by OLDER men. The Demostrations, many in Calif were against the War and ANYONE who participated in it. There were TWO of us in my class that Enlisted. Many were bitter because their poor little as-es were getting DRAFTED. Others were bitter because they felt it was ALL Political and that the Domino Theory was B.S. IT was NOT a POPULAR WAR and you will only see movies made about it that shows EXAGGERATIONS and DRUGS and gives NO CREDIT TO THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO SERVED. The movies about Vietnam were dumb because that was the attitude towards it and everyone in it. "Green Berets" was the ONLY movie I can recall where it tries to get a point across and tries to show it as it was. So if you were treated all nicey nice, great, I am glad some of us got the decent treatment. I guess the NSA, SDS or the Liberated Barracks didn't exist near your bases? Are we all talking the same war and era? There was NO POPULARITY of anyone in Uniform. There is without question, many of the older folks who lived thru the earlier wars, who treated us pretty damn decent. By the way Troy, the College I was going to and I too was involved in Radio & Television was Palomar College in San Marcos. I had a Professor fail me because I was going on the G.I. Bill and he didn't agree I should be getting an education paid by the Taxpayer. I am not looking for pity I am making a point about the time and attitudes. Vietnam DIVIDED AMERICA and I am astounded that some of you don't remember that, either that or you all ain't who you claim to be. The PEACE RALLIES, the ANTI WAR demostrations, the Riots. Watts, Newark, Kent, Chicago, Detroit and it goes on. Vietnam was an EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR War and anyone involved was a target. Yes! many people treated the military well but that doesn't erase the ones who didn't. It was in the Lyrics of so many songs. It was in the Political Ads, the Hippie Movements, the Draft-Dodgers and the NEWS. On one side was the MAKE LOVE NOT WAR, GIVE PEACE A CHANCE group and on the other was the LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT group. Draft resistors openly burned their Draft Cards and marched in the streets and that wasn't because of the POPULARITY of the War. Every draft dodger tried his best to get a STUDENT DEFERRMENT or a HARDSHIP EXCEPTION or a 4F rating. Why? Because Vietnam was so popular??? These people were bitter and many became members of ANTI-VIETNAM Groups, Flags were burned, Colleges taken over, streets set on fire, good God, I must have been on another Planet, maybe it wasn't here in the States, maybe it is all a Dream. BABY KILLER, MAMMA RAPER, DADDY KILLER, WAR MONGER, must be phrases from another time, as was SUPPOSE THEY GAVE A WAR AND NOBODY SHOWED, GIVE PEACE A CHANCE, GIVE ME A F, MAKE LOVE NOT WAR, HELL NO! WE WON"T GO, KILL, IT'S GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger, CCR, Country Joe, Berkeley, Kent State, UNDERGROUND PUBLICATIONS, Berrigan Brothers, Catonsville Nine, Weather Underground, and so forth. Coming home for the Viet Vet was one at a time and into a very harsh climate that at times could be as harsh as anywhere in Vietnam was. Vietnam was EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR and if you even tried to say YOU ENLISTED because you believed the war was right.. GOOD GOD, Hell! would break out. Maybe it was because where I am from is more rural and I stood out more, I just can't believe some of you never witnessed this. I didn't talk about it for over 10 years after I got home and I can bet a paycheck that was true for many and not for just some. Jane Fonda got the attention because HATING America then was just as popular as it is NOW. President Reagan allowed me to lift my head back up and I swore I would never cower to anyone again. WHY do I hate the Liberals so much today? because what we had to go through then was the birth of the NEW LIBERAL MOVEMENT of today. I find it simply amazing that today, we have so many MORE Vietnam Veterans than who actually served. How soon some forget....... | |
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04-04-2008, 08:56 AM
| #53 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 615
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__________________ The difference between a hot dog and a weenie is a fine line..... | |
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04-04-2008, 09:17 AM
| #54 |
| "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI
Posts: 2,931
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Amen Wingwiper... amen. Having our military base in the middle of a Liberal College city is why we are treated badly too. I go there to work, I leave. I've had it over my head with the anti-war students who don't have a clue. Most of them participate in protests here just to get out of class... but it still doesn't stop their hateful spew against us military members. Some may not see the hateful glares we get from the students... but we see them loud and clear. I wonder where they learned the phrases of "baby killer" etc. ... was it on TV or are they learning it from their professors or peers? It doesn't stop there either. Many times we'll order out for the shift members on base and have to make sure that the food order isn't intentionally (spit on, dropped on the floor, missing 1/2 the items, etc.) jacked up on us... when they know we're military by our uniforms. What is happening now... albeit localized, is similar to what happened shortly after Vietnam. Was I around... yes, as an infant so of course I would not know. I have plenty of family members, in-laws and friends that are Vietnam Veterans... and they see these parallels too. Kids these days would probably vote Jane Fonda in as President... |
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04-04-2008, 10:34 AM
| #55 | |
| Banned Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 789
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I am NOT looking for pity or glory or anything else, I dealt with it years ago. So don't misunderstand what I have been or am saying, I am only trying to make a point, in my long winded way. My mom and dad, both served in ACTION during WWII as did many of my Uncles etc. When I grew up we had fear and there were the Civil Defense Air Raids and even our AM Car Radios had two locations embedded on the template of the station dial for pre determined and preselected CD Broadcasts, it was REAL. Tons of WWII movies, series, specials etc were on the Television and in books etc. So a kid growing up in the 50s saw it and knew of war. We heard the talk from our parents, saw interviews etc. We marched on Memorial Day and threw REAL Poppies into the lakes, ocean and rivers and we RESPECTED the flag. When JFK, Castro and Kruschev were having the problems and suddenly FALLOUT SHELTERS were springing up everywhere and we started to have CD Drills where we would leave school and go to the basement of the church, We felt the threat was very real. Us kids would hear the sounds of props on a large plane overhead and would wonder if they were Russian. We grew up SCARED and on edge. So when they spoke of the Domino Theory, it sounded real, made sense and fell right in with the happenings of the world. I saw Buddhist Monks set themselves on fire and I heard about the BAY OF PIGS, and I remember the CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS, I saw Diem execute the suspected VC in the streets with a shot to the head, I saw people shot as they tried to go over a wall and into another part of the city, all on TV of course, but until then the blood on tv had been fake as was the deaths, now it was real and I was old enough to know the threats were real and that real Death was permanent and you didn't stand back up for a retake after. At my age I believed in JFK and I believed that whatever my country did was proper and right. I enlisted, long before I graduated and upon graduation, I left for PI. My mind was so involved in the visions of what was to come at PI and the NEWS Videos of the dead in Vietnam that I wasn't seeing what the other part of the country was doing. I didn't see the hate for America and the Severe Draft resistance growing. I thought EVERYONE understood the same fears I felt and saw. I thought it was a given to serve and to do so by ENLISTING. Never in my wildest dreams was I prepared for what I was going to witness and live through. Not to sound racists, but I had never seen a Black man or an Oriental until I was traveling to my AFEES. I was wet behind the ears and when I started to see differences in people is when I started to hear the differences in people. Some of those differences were fed by a huge amount of HATE. The SLA, Black Panthers, KKK, SDS, NSA, Liberated Barracks, and so many other groups. I wondered why so many hated America and why? I had seen a President, a Senator and a Civil Rights leader Killed and that was just the start. I was seeing the U.S. divided by the War and by Race riots and I was seeing the World divided by Communists and Democracies and I saw people dying trying to climb a wall and what was strange that during all of this there was this SPACE RACE. I was hoping that all attention would turn to the SPACE RACE and people would forget about hating each other because of skin color or by what country they live in. As I served I even found myself to side with the very people who were against the war and against Patriotism, I sang the Fixin To Die Rag, wore a Peace Symbol around my neck, secretly but I served and I did my job and I did it with full belief that I was doing to for all of the RIGHT REASONS. The Marines had drafted for ONLY two years out of their entire history and that was 68 and 69 and I was serving with many who did not want to be there but the Judge had given them a choice. We had a lot of scum in the Corps back then and luckily few if any re-uped. It was very hard for any young man to keep a sharp focus on what he believed in and not get swallowed up for the need of being accepted in the many different Groups. I did enjoy the Burn the Bra Marches and even enjoyed the Hippie girls at the communes trying to convert me with their MAKE LOVE NOT WAR actions. No doubt there were some benies. The war back then was in everyone's face, because the media had NOT learned how to properly show it and I think that was much the reason for the opposition to gain so much strength. Today the media stills feels they have a right to show what they want and say what they want, without concern for the impact it may have, good or bad. We have ANTI WAR Demostrations all thru my state and usually on Fridays in the town squares. I make it a point to wear my uniform near them and I do it I think because of what happen so many years ago. I take no shame in my uniform or my service and whenever I hear someone talking about the War in a negative tone, I make it clear I am serving and I do NOT agree with them. It usually shuts them up. I learned a long time ago, many will be in the Marches for something to do and few were there because they actually believed what they were doing. Cindy Sheehan had every right to stand against the war, she had no right to strip her son of his Honor. Jane Fonda had every right to speak out against the war, she had NO right to sleep with the enemy. Jane commited TREASON in every single sense of the word and should have been imprisoned and executed. She instead was voted one of the top 100 women of the century. Larry, stand TALL and hold your head up high, be PROUD and never cower to the pukes who have only WISHBONES where they should have BACKBONES. FOR THOSE WHO FIGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW. Flak Jacket, Vietnam and probably said a 100 million times in a hundred different wars and on a million different battlefields. 'SEMPER FI Last edited by Wingwiper; 04-04-2008 at 10:42 AM. | |
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04-04-2008, 10:41 AM
| #56 |
| "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI
Posts: 2,931
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Even in the face of death, I have now cowered. I do stand tall... and encourage others to do the same. Even from an Air Force guy... Semper Fi... |
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04-04-2008, 10:48 AM
| #57 | |
| Banned Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 789
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Semper Fi, my friend means the same no matter who says it, as long as it said with HEART. Semper Fi | |
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04-04-2008, 10:12 PM
| #58 | |
| Senior Member   Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,894
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__________________  USAF '62-'66  . | |
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04-04-2008, 11:59 PM
| #59 | |
| Resident Armed Liberal | Quote:
 "HATING America then was just as popular as it is NOW?!??" No; I'd say 'hating America' has never been as popular as accusing anyone who disagrees with you of hating America is... Obviously there were jerks back then, just as there are jerks now. But to claim those jerks were representative of, or typical of, Americans as a whole is an insult to the country I loved and fought for.  I'm not doubting you had some bad experiences; maybe I was just lucky. But I don't think you should lay the blame on everyone for what a few did.
__________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr Last edited by troy2000; 04-05-2008 at 12:54 AM. | |
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04-05-2008, 12:50 AM
| #60 |
| Member  Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Twin Lakes area Arkansas
Posts: 39
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I was one of the lucky ones, I never got spit on or hollered at or anything like that. I do personally know others that have been. As far as Hanoi Jane is concerned, I will not watch her movies or any thing else she has done,new or old. I would not even walk across the street to check if shes dead or not. At the very least she shamed my country and my constitution. That is totally unforgivable. 'Nuff said. benhinds2000 WestPac 72-73
__________________ Appleseed...your Founding Fathers would approve |
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