Quote:
Originally Posted by
Coeloptera 
| You don't know who Saladin was, do ya?
Go look him up.
That was a real Muslim. A civilized, honourable, educated man (moreso in some ways than many of his foes). We could really use his kind today to whip those kids back into shape.
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Actually I do know and have read a little about him. He was a unique man, but you cannot dismiss my point because 1 man lived differently than the rest.
Its like someone making a point that war is human nature and then you say
You dont know who Ghandi was, do ya?
Go look him up.
That was a real human........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Coeloptera |
And as for Christianity...all I'm gonna do is sigh softly and tell you that I'd sooner die fighting than live in any nation that had any religion as the basis for how I am to live my life. Not that it doesn't have some good ideas. The problem is trusting anyone "in charge" to use a version I feel safe with. You guys have enough internal disagreements as it is. Would abortion be legal? How about birth control? Women's right to vote? Alcohol consumption? Forced prayer in school? Intelligent design? You see where I'm going with this?
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You are arguing a point that I didnt make, nowhere did I advocate any type of theocracy as an acceptable form of government.
Here again your taking something that I didnt state and basing your argument on it. Its a logical fallacy called a "Straw Man".
Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
- Person A has position X.
- Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
- Person B attacks position Y.
- Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Coeloptera |
The gay thing...just isn't worth getting into.
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Ok
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Originally Posted by
Coeloptera Oh yeah, and this:  |
Right, so if you are the majority, you cant be discriminated against? I bet people bumped out of the college or job they wanted because of "affirmative action" would agree that the majority can be discriminated against.
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Originally Posted by
Coeloptera | I gotta go with Nathangdad on his view of our culture. No one thinks very much anymore, it seems.
Iran will be a problem, no doubt. It all depends on how much they're really willing to risk losing versus how much bluster they're willing to send out. Remember, there's a world of difference between giving the appearance of being a radical religious zealot to pacify your population and actually being one. I think they want nuclear capability to ensure their own interests and safety, not to invite an attack that would turn their nation into so much radioactive glass. But if they have the capacity, suddenly they can hold us over an (oil) barrel a lot more.
And people wonder why alternative energy should be getting funding these days. Not spending those billions now will make us suffer later. How do you think the OPEC nations would react if we turned around and said "We don't need you, anymore."? They'd crap bricks.
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The population of Iran is not made up of religious zealot, which can be attested to by the huge demonstrations they are having in direct opposition to the leaders. They are still doing it despite knowing the severe consequences they face by openly defying the leadership. I would point to some opinion polls, but I dont trust any coming from a country in Iran's state.
Their pursuit of nuclear technology isnt for safety, but it is for their own interest. Their interest in wiping out Israel and the US.
They arent building massive nuclear shelters underground, that can hold millions, just in case.
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Originally Posted by
Coeloptera |
For some of this I blame partisanship. Reasonable political debate is essentially dead on both sides, and make no mistake, we need both sides. The Conservatives should be the voice of reason that keeps government small, plans with fiscal wisdom, and looks back at the values that have worked for our culture and has good, reasonable answers for why we should keep them. A good Liberal looks to the future, planning for tomorrow, making intelligent decisions for upcoming problems and striving for social equality for all.
But we don't get that much, anymore, do we? We get Bible-beating autocrats on one side, and tree-hugging nanny-staters on the other, with moderates being shouted down by the insane extremes.
It is...annoying.
- Coeloptera
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You keep bringing up your view that their is some vast group of co-conspirators that are working together to force religion onto the rest of the nation. I couldnt disagree more. I believe the vast majority of the religious right would frown upon anyone that was overly consumed with any religion. Its just not the type of person you want in any civil authority position. If you look at the elected officials from the republican party you can see that the vast majority would not support your view. The biggest religious guy in this years race placed a very distant second. On the flip side if you look at democrats you can find plenty socialist wannabes.
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Originally Posted by
Windwalker | Soonerborn, that was a most informative post. The information on Islam brought up statements that I had not heard before.Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding of what I read is that without a doubt Islam intends to destroy the United States. Did I read this right and do you unequivocally believe this?
How about you other members, do you believe this? |
Yes, your read that right. They only reason we are numero uno on their list is because we are living proof that their religion is wrong. Its not just the US though, its any nation that hasnt submitted to Islam. The religion demands they make the entire world submit. Of this their is no doubt and no room for debate.
You can read several books from apostate authors which, at least all that I have read, will make this point abundantly clear.
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Originally Posted by
roadie | "Soonerborn" Wow, I could not agree more. You oughta publish that and drop leaflets all over the counrty. |
Well, lol, it would need quite a bit of polishing for that. I was just kind of rambling.
