Military is in dire need of recruits

[tlarkin]

so dire that they are now allowing felons to enlist

ABC News: More Felons Allowed to Enlist in Military

I almost have to say that it may actually be more rehabilitating than prison, however some of the people they are getting got arrested for ridiculous things. I always heard of back in the day if you got in trouble and it was your first offense most judges gave you 2 options, 1) join the military or 2) go to jail. Guess they are brining that back?

[TXplt]

Some of this might be the "I didn't leave the party, the party left me." Felonies are supposed to be serious crimes; we've made alot of silly stuff into literally a Federal Case and/or felony. I read in some cases destroying a public phone here can be a felony ?! Next thing, it'll be bashing mailboxes (I'm in favor of neither, but a kid blowing up a mailbox w/an M-80 or something isn't exactly John Dillinger). The better answer is to go back to making only the really bad stuff a felony. Maybe that's a part of it.

[.22hustler]

tlarkin, you're right about the judges. I was drafted in July 1970, and all during my stay with Uncle Sam, there were many instances where the guys who had 3-yr commitments were more or less told they had a choice, 3 yrs in the pokey( no pun intended), or 3 yrs "working " for the govt. That's ok, but you get a mix of God-loving, America loving, teeth-spitting, hard as nails GI's, mixed in with criminals who are going to rip you off, anyway they can, just like they did in civy life. My opinion through experience, always an exception.

[nathangdad]

You might be interested in a little history. Before we entered WW2 a great deal of research was done as to whether we could win a two front war and the time it would take. General George Marshall (who would later write the Marshall Plan for rebuilding Europe) became well known for his
statement, "Democracies cannot fight seven year wars".

Well, this disaster is beyond its fifth anniversary with no end in sight.
The original "gung-ho" mentality has gone and went as the saying goes.

Young people want to be part of a winning team, want to both belive in and see the results of their effort, and want things done and finished as in WW2 (Normandy 6-44 to victory 5-44 in Europe).

I work at a university and, for better or worse, the students I meet don't want to spend time thinking about our Middle East situation as they have written it off as a lost cause.

[Pred]

We could have won this war YEARS ago if the politicians had wanted to.

[Rave]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Stay the course!

[tlarkin]

It is an interesting subject because our prison systems do not rehabilitate criminals, they make them better criminals. You go to prison and come out harder, tougher, wiser, and have a lot more criminal contacts from your prison time.

I think they should also maybe offer citizenship to those who want to legally come to our nation and sign up for the military.

[Seabeescotty]

Too bad they won't take old beat up vets, but I guess there's a reason for that!

[Marine1]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

so dire that they are now allowing felons to enlist

ABC News: More Felons Allowed to Enlist in Military

I almost have to say that it may actually be more rehabilitating than prison, however some of the people they are getting got arrested for ridiculous things. I always heard of back in the day if you got in trouble and it was your first offense most judges gave you 2 options, 1) join the military or 2) go to jail. Guess they are brining that back?

Quite true! Kids in trouble, (depending on the charges) back in the days, were given the option of time in jail, by setting the sentence aside, (post-poned) until proof was submitted to the courts that the offender had enlisted in the military service. This action took many repeat juvenile offenders off the streets. A second chance (so to speak). Some made it, some did not. Last thing anyone wants in the world is a "Bad-Conduct or Un-Desireable" discharge from the military. Scotty, remember when they used to "drum" a person out of the military, who received a bad discharge?

[rondog]

Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

Too bad they won't take old beat up vets, but I guess there's a reason for that!

I think that's BS, myself. Sure, young and fit folks in their prime are better overall, but there's still lots of support roles that older folks could fill. Not everyone in the military is out runnin' and gunnin', right?

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by Pred

We could have won this war YEARS ago if the politicians had wanted to.

Bingo. This war became far too political than practical. To win, let the Generals and the Dogs of War do what they do...

[Windwalker]

Pred, I agree with you and Larry on this one. Keep the politicians out of the war and let the Generals run it. The war could still be won but there would be lots of civilian casualties.

[tlarkin]

There is nothing non political about war, war is political and it reflects on how the citizens view it. This current war has lost its approval rating and the majority of the people in this country want our soldiers home for good.

The citizens of our country dictate the political shift if anything and the politicians keep in line to keep their approval rating on par with other politicians.

The problem is that they can't get out either, and they have no exit plan, amongst many other factors, and a some politicians don't want to pull out at all and they are already eye balling Iran...

[troy2000]

Last time I checked, we were supposed to be a democracy. Government and the military are supposed to be doing the will of the people, not cramming unpopular wars down our throats for our own good.

I believe in the will of the people; I really do. In the short run, popular opinion can swing wildly. But in the long run, if you give them enough time to shake things down and look at them, the American public almost always gets it right.

[nathangdad]

You almost, word for word, make Thomas Jefferson's campaign
statement for the 1800 election.

Although you already know the message, you might enjoy reading
Jefferson's Second Revolution: The Election Crisis of 1800 and the Triumph of Republicanism by Susan Dunn.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Last time I checked, we were supposed to be a democracy. Government and the military are supposed to be doing the will of the people, not cramming unpopular wars down our throats for our own good.

I believe in the will of the people; I really do. In the short run, popular opinion can swing wildly. But in the long run, if you give them enough time to shake things down and look at them, the American public almost always gets it right.

I was going to say this, but decided to say my first bit instead. The people do not want any more war in Iraq, and I just read some interesting political polls about it.

Seems near over 60% of the US population want out of the war and most of those are going to vote democrat next election. McCain who has the other give or take 40% only has 3:1 (or 2/3) supporters in that poll. So, it obviously makes a political shift. Of course the war may not be the most important issue to all voters, which I think that poll left out, how important it was over other issues.

The people will speak, and hopefully this time for the better. I can't believe bush go re-elected but he did, so you never know I suppose.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by nathangdad

You almost, word for word, make Thomas Jefferson's campaign
statement for the 1800 election.

Although you already know the message, you might enjoy reading
Jefferson's Second Revolution: The Election Crisis of 1800 and the Triumph of Republicanism by Susan Dunn.

Thanks for the suggestion, nathangdad. It's been a while since I read anything deeper than a Louis L'amour paperback. Like too many people today, I tend to spend more time on the internet and on short, easily-digested bits of stuff, and it's probably time to take a deep breath, settle down and bury myself in something with a little substance again.

[ezearln]

Strange as it may be to some here we are not a democracy, we are as was intended a Federated Republic. Supposed to be working together for the benefit of all. Have any of you heard yet the truest definition of a democracy?

"A Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner" Think on it a few and you see the truth in that assessment the next time you listen to a politician of any level.

[Coeloptera]

I think the problem was, no one knew what we wanted to do in Iraq.

I have said before, the US Military is, at this point in history, one of if not the most powerful and effective fighting force on the planet.

But if they don't have a clear mission. What can they do? "Don't lose" is not a strategy. Toppling Hussein was clear. A dumb idea. But at least it was clear. And after...?

There's the problem. No one at the top either thought about or cared what came next. You can't bring in democracy at gunpoint. I mean honestly, I can't even understand what our objective there is supposed to be.

Quell the insurgents? Unfortunately to do that we'd have to do some horrifying things to that country, which would sort of defeat the purpose.

I'm just ashamed we forgot about Afghanistan and Bin Laden. We look like imbeciles for that. And weak. He Got Away With It. That's what it looks like. Hacks me off.

- Coeloptera