Here it is,food shortages caused by....

[SuckLead]

Hm. Imagine that. And I still have never seen a station that actually sells that ethenol stuff.

[Deersniper]

Ethanol is a "cut " to gas like they cut drugs on the street. It makes a less efficient product, for more cost. [no bread or tacos] Several years back, the major oil companies went around buying up all the refineries just to shut them down. They are sitting on huge reserves, but we have brave young men gallantly dying every day so we can give our hard earned money to Arabs for oil. A days wages for a loaf of bread, we may have to work to get credits everyday so our family can have bread and other rationed items. This what globalism and all these trade agreements do they give power to the few so they can make society to their liking. Go pull up Who Is Responsible for the World Food Shortage. This was planned long ago by people like Kissinger to be used as a weapon. Been refilling the cupboard with low salt foods. E-foods direct is a good source for dried food. Deer leases will go through the roof, man. Pick your own gardens will be a big hit, they kill two birds with one stone.

[stalebiscuit]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Beer is estimated to jump to $10 per six-pack for some brands, due to Wheat, Batley and Hops shortages.

Cyrille

You are 100% correct. It is estimated that ot takes 3/4 of gal of fossil fuel, to prepare, cultivate, plant, harvest, ship and convert to 1 gal of Ethenol. Then it is ONLY mixed 15% with 85% gas and gets LESS mpg and cost more...What the He-- is the point?
Farmers are paying more for feed so even meat will go up in price. Farmers who were making little on Soy beans etc have switched over to the HIGH demand of the Grain products.

NO, NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

NO, NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

Yup! beer prices are already starting to climb and those guys who were growing Potatos for your chips, you guess it, they switched to grains and corn. So it may be driving you to drink, but you ain't gonna be able to afford to

[jimkim]

Relax biscuit ole buddy we're in GA I got your back. Head on down we'll hit the back roads and scare up some home brew or something a little stronger.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by SuckLead

Hm. Imagine that. And I still have never seen a station that actually sells that ethenol stuff.

Here in California, the gasoline is cut with ethanol during certain times of the year. Since it's 35 percent oxygen, supposedly it helps the gasoline burn more cleanly and lowers smog.

There's some debate about whether that's true or not.

[LarryO1970]

Wisconsin has a 10% + ethanol blend also... but pure ethanol is harder to find.

[BaserRonin]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Here in California, the gasoline is cut with ethanol during certain times of the year. Since it's 35 percent oxygen, supposedly it helps the gasoline burn more cleanly and lowers smog.

There's some debate about whether that's true or not.

I wonder if thats why my mileage drops so much for a few tanks two or three times a year? Adjusting the Ethanol mixture for summer and winter would explain it.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by BaserRonin

I wonder if thats why my mileage drops so much for a few tanks two or three times a year? Adjusting the Ethanol mixture for summer and winter would explain it.

Quite possibly, BR. I don't keep that close an eye on my mileage, but someone who does would probably notice a difference.

[roadie]

Originally Posted by Rave

...bio-fuel!
Media says there will be major world food shortages caused by the use of grains to produce alcohol for fuel.
I guess you just can't win.

Please deal lord in heaven...tell me you don't actually believe what the media is telling you.

[Seven©]

Originally Posted by roadie

Please deal lord in heaven...tell me you don't actually believe what the media is telling you.

The media said so! It's gotta be the truth!

[tlarkin]

Why doesn't the government look at something like this:

YouTube - Saltwater Burns - John Kanzius

[ezearln]

As sad as the situation is the fact is too many farmers as well as consumers are being duped into believing that converting corn (primarily) into fuel is the way to go. This artificially raises grain prices, and creates demand that isn't necessary, There are vast stores of bio mass materials that are next to useless as food or feed that provide far better returns on investment than does corn or wheat. Combustion engines can be tuned and adapted to burn these fuels. As well as diesel engines being adapted to recycle/reuse a wide variety of cooking oils. For heavens sake we have the minds we need to get it done. Why aren't we doing it as a nation united?

[Rave]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

or
Is it because

Whenever we buy a foriegn product, it supports OUTSOURCING and the country of origin becomes more industralized and therefor Oil consumption increases. Not counting that the American Dollar is being shipped to the Profit pockets and bank accounts of foriegners.

Good point!

Originally Posted by troy2000

I'll go to the link and read it, but it's been my experience that you can usually tell who paid for the "independent" studies on this subject simply by looking at the conclusions drawn. I'd say that's true for both sides...

How about the 'flimsy pretense' that foreign countries have us by the short hairs because they control our energy supplies? Is that enough reason to look for alternatives? I understood that was our main reason for wanting alternatives to oil, not global warming...

If biofuels are a net loss, they won't survive in the market. Simple enough, I'd say; we can just wait and see. Government subsidies aren't nearly high enough to make up for the difference if that turns out to be the case; as a matter of fact, government subsidies for all alternative energy sources combined are a drop in the bucket compared to the tax breaks and 'incentives' given to the oil industry lately.

Yupper,even if bio-fuels are a net loss,they will be a big gain for big business,and that's good enough.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by ezearln

As sad as the situation is the fact is too many farmers as well as consumers are being duped into believing that converting corn (primarily) into fuel is the way to go. This artificially raises grain prices, and creates demand that isn't necessary, There are vast stores of bio mass materials that are next to useless as food or feed that provide far better returns on investment than does corn or wheat. Combustion engines can be tuned and adapted to burn these fuels. As well as diesel engines being adapted to recycle/reuse a wide variety of cooking oils. For heavens sake we have the minds we need to get it done. Why aren't we doing it as a nation united?

I don't think they're being duped, Earl. I think it's what they're used to growing, it's what they know how to grow well, and they're partial to it from familiarity. So a lot of the push is coming from them.

I agree it isn't necessarily the best fuel crop. I think I mentioned switchgrass earlier, and there are other possibilities.

Market economics and reality in general will sort things out eventually, I think. Meanwhile, it's a step along the way.

Bill Handel, the morning talk-show host on KFI 640 in the Los Angeles area, has repeatedly said we need a 'Manhattan Project-type' push to make us independent of foreign energy sources, and that the government should commit resources like the very survival of the nation depends on it--because it might. I agree with him. Fat chance the government will undercut the oil companies like that, though...

[ezearln]

Troy I too have meantioned switchgrass a virtually otherwise useless weed that few grazing animals will eat and has little to no food value to humans but when converted does so at a rate nearly 9 times that of corn. Farmers aren't stupid nor are they blind I believe they've been sold a bill of goods, that doesn't have a twin bill of lading!

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by ezearln

Troy I too have meantioned switchgrass a virtually otherwise useless weed that few grazing animals will eat and has little to no food value to humans but when converted does so at a rate nearly 9 times that of corn. Farmers aren't stupid nor are they blind I believe they've been sold a bill of goods, that doesn't have a twin bill of lading!

Have a little patience, Earl...they'll get there. As you point out, they aren't stupid. I just think they've been growing corn so long it's natural to look for other uses for it, instead of looking for other crops.

We live in interesting times, my friend. I'm glad I'm around to watch the changes.

[jimkim]

I don't like using corn to make alcohol. If it was cheap and economical then the moonshiners wouldn't be making sugar liquor. I liked switchgrass before I found out about the acreage involved. It might work if we just do a little of it all. Just don't mandate any one thing. When bureaucrats get involved it will be SNAFU. I'm not disagreeing about ethanol. I just think we should have listened to what the Brazilians told us.
" U.S. ethanol, which is made from corn, costs at least 30% more than Brazil's product, in part because the starch in corn must be first turned into sugar before being distilled into alcohol." YALE-GLOBAL ON LINE link As Brazil Fills Up on Ethanol, It Weans Off Energy Imports

[ezearln]

Heck switchgrass grows wild throughout most of the plains states clear down to deep south Texas. oddly enough the "starch" you refer to in corn started out as "Sugar", try an ear of "Field corn" fresh picked right off the stalk and shucked and dropped into boiling water you already had going , it's almost as sweet as some of the "Sweet corn hybrids"

[Rave]

Originally Posted by SuckLead

Hm. Imagine that. And I still have never seen a station that actually sells that ethenol stuff.

I was reading a sticker posted on a Shell Gas pump while filling up and it said that the gas containes ethonol.
If you had any questions go inside and enquire.