Corrections, clarifications on eye for an eye

BenP · 08-21-2002, 05:11 PM

#1: Jesus never went to Rome. Once when Jesus was in Jerusalem he went to the temple and found merchants within the sacred areas peddling when they shouldn't be, and he got angry at the insolence and greed.

#2: Check out this link for a very good explanation on the topic from Matthew 5:38,39. This does a very good job of interpreting the meaning behind eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek.

http://www.gac.20m.com/self-def.htm

For your benefit Lenny. Knowledge is power.

PAPA G · 08-21-2002, 06:18 PM

Papa G chapter 1, verse one-look out for yourself, and yours.

oneastrix · 08-21-2002, 06:29 PM

Oh Lord, and to think my post started this all. It's quite flattering actually! lol

Look out boys, Alan will be online shortly!

NRAJOE · 08-21-2002, 08:09 PM

Here we go again,

Calvin · 08-21-2002, 08:56 PM

I'm changing churches now!!!!

alan c. · 08-21-2002, 09:01 PM

I'm going to pass--You all have at it.

MarkII 22 · 08-21-2002, 09:13 PM

Why did you not have that up there before I had to make a fool out of myself with that mess I posted on the other thread?

alan c. · 08-21-2002, 09:28 PM

Who are you refering to? You made one post on a two page thread--how bad can it be?

Dale · 08-21-2002, 10:36 PM

You mean to tell me if someone kicks me in the butt I'm suppose to let him kick the other side. I think not! NOPE.

Or, maybe, we'e not talking that kinda cheek, lol.

wes · 08-21-2002, 11:38 PM

An eye for an eye,and a boot for your snoot.

08-21-2002, 11:56 PM

Ben,
If the bible had one interpretation, there would be only one christian church. If you would like your interpretations spoon fed to you, have at it.
That site you referenced (which I like a whole lot) has one purpose - to promote 2nd ammendment rights. I wouldn't say they are a great source to reference for biblical history.

oneastrix · 08-22-2002, 07:49 AM

Look out, Lenny's in da house!

MarkII 22 · 08-22-2002, 08:07 AM

BenP

alan c. · 08-22-2002, 08:07 AM

Ben P.-- Crocker made the same points that I was trying to make in my earlier posts on this thread.

NRAJOE · 08-22-2002, 10:56 AM

For someone that was going to pass and let everyone have at it your sure on here alot alan!

Eric · 08-22-2002, 11:39 AM

I think it's an awesome article. I don't believe God just wants 'bad people' running around, after they have killed all the 'good people' that refused to defend themselves and their families.

BenP · 08-22-2002, 02:46 PM

All,

Ultimately, it is up to each of us to determine for ourselves what is right. The article represents mainline christian philosophy on the subject, and I find it acceptable because the explanation makes sense. It has enough reference points that the argument is well supported. I have not seen any other interpretation of this scripture which is fundamentally different from this one. Ergo, lacking significant contradiction, this article represents a sound doctrine of christian belief on the subject of when to turn the other cheek, and when to put foot to a55.

Even if you don't accept Christianity, the principles represented in this interpretation are a good standard for a person to live by. Only anarchists would support revenge and intolerance, and then not for long. Whether you're a believer or not, we have to find a way to live together for the most part, and deal with the exceptions in a manner tolerable by the whole.

I've packed a firearm for 20 years now, and I've never had to draw down on anyone. There've been plenty of opportunities for me to do so, but I've always found a way to avoid it and still preserve my safety and possessions. If no other choice, then I would not hesitate, and I feel pretty confident that I would be quite effective at defending myself. It's been my experience that temperance and reasoning are signs of wisdom. Pulling that trigger, just like throwing that punch, will most likely be a life altering event for all concerned in this day and age, even discounting litigation issues (re: Hatfield and McCoy). I would prefer to avoid those situations rather than confront them.

NRAJOE · 08-22-2002, 03:03 PM

Your a good man Ben and I'd back you up on anything you say. We've talked before on this subject and you know I believe in God almighty. I refuse to get in a peeing contest over my beliefs and its not worth getting mad about on a computer. Somepeople refuse to believe and you cannot change them. We will all find out on judgement day.God bless you all and all of yours.

08-22-2002, 03:07 PM

Well put, BenP. But I have the firm belief that people believe what they want to believe. Thats why it is called faith. If there were proof, there would be no need for interpretation.

Tell me if this is an eye for an eye: A person comes up with a cure for a terrible disease, has many children that go on to become great people who accomplich great deeds, contributes many positive things to their community, helps their neighbors, helps strangers, does not harbor hate or ill feelings, sins on the very bottom of the scale, and generally makes the world a better place. This person does great things for 60 years and then dies. Then they burn in hell for all eternity for not accepting Christ. Is this justice?

BenP · 08-22-2002, 03:26 PM

Old testament (re: Jewish Law)

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Those who have not received the word of God will be judged on their actions and their hearts. If they are fundamentally good people, I believe they will go to heaven.

Now for the Jews, when's the last time you put a dead animal on the alter? Do jews still practice this means of commuting their sin? How's your heart? What will God see when you stand before him? What will you say when you stand before the creator and he asks you about your sins?

For me, God will see Jesus walking beside me to the place of judgement as my advocate. He will hear me say that He promised if I accepted his son as my saviour I would be forgiven. This is my belief.

If I am wrong, then I have at least endeavored to live a good life based on a doctrine of love and compassion and aid to my fellow man, and humility to God. If God will judge me on my actions and my heart rather than a false promise made by a madman 2,000 years ago, then I would expect the outcome to be the same as for you or any other person who values these qualities. I try to obey His laws. But I, like all those before me, fail sometimes. I am penitent and regretful, and I find the Gospel to be at least as acceptable a redemption as was the old testament method of sacrificing animals.

However, that doesn't change my position about living a life based on the standards Jesus gave, even if He is not the Son of God, his words are wise and the application of His teachings are beneficial for both the individual and society. I could say the same thing for many other world religions, so perhaps humanity is inspired through a belief in a benevolent creator to pursue peaceful, mutually beneficial rules of life and death. I think you'll find many commonalities amongst the world religions along these lines. In fact, there is an organization that has standardized these ideals across religious lines quite successfully. If you put aside our differences, you see that our goals and struggles are really quite the same. I wonder why that is?

08-21-2002, 06:29 PM	#3
oneastrix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 5,213	Oh Lord, and to think my post started this all. It's quite flattering actually! lol Look out boys, Alan will be online shortly! __________________ There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.

08-21-2002, 08:09 PM	#4
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,061 Images: 3	Here we go again, __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

08-21-2002, 08:56 PM	#5
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,000	I'm changing churches now!!!! __________________ If you don't like cops, call your local crackhead for help next time!

08-21-2002, 09:01 PM	#6
alan c. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pasadena,Tejas - also known as Texas Posts: 3,767 Images: 15	I'm going to pass--You all have at it. __________________ God Bless. From Tejas -- formerly known as Texas.

08-21-2002, 09:13 PM	#7
MarkII 22 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 587	Why did you not have that up there before I had to make a fool out of myself with that mess I posted on the other thread? __________________ GROW YOUR OWN DOPE.PLANT A POLITICIAN. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.SO PLEASE SHUT UP! Last edited by MarkII 22; 08-23-2002 at 01:25 PM.

08-21-2002, 05:11 PM	#1
BenP Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 395	Corrections, clarifications on eye for an eye #1: Jesus never went to Rome. Once when Jesus was in Jerusalem he went to the temple and found merchants within the sacred areas peddling when they shouldn't be, and he got angry at the insolence and greed. #2: Check out this link for a very good explanation on the topic from Matthew 5:38,39. This does a very good job of interpreting the meaning behind eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek. http://www.gac.20m.com/self-def.htm For your benefit Lenny. Knowledge is power.

08-21-2002, 06:18 PM	#2
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	Papa G chapter 1, verse one-look out for yourself, and yours.

08-21-2002, 09:28 PM	#8
alan c. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pasadena,Tejas - also known as Texas Posts: 3,767 Images: 15	Who are you refering to? You made one post on a two page thread--how bad can it be? __________________ God Bless. From Tejas -- formerly known as Texas. Last edited by alan c.; 08-21-2002 at 09:47 PM.

08-21-2002, 10:36 PM	#9
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	You mean to tell me if someone kicks me in the butt I'm suppose to let him kick the other side. I think not! NOPE. Or, maybe, we'e not talking that kinda cheek, lol. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

08-21-2002, 11:38 PM	#10
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906	An eye for an eye,and a boot for your snoot.

08-21-2002, 11:56 PM	#11
Lenny2 Guest Posts: n/a	Ben, If the bible had one interpretation, there would be only one christian church. If you would like your interpretations spoon fed to you, have at it. That site you referenced (which I like a whole lot) has one purpose - to promote 2nd ammendment rights. I wouldn't say they are a great source to reference for biblical history.

08-22-2002, 07:49 AM	#12
oneastrix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 5,213	Look out, Lenny's in da house! __________________ There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.

08-22-2002, 08:07 AM	#13
MarkII 22 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 587	BenP __________________ GROW YOUR OWN DOPE.PLANT A POLITICIAN. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.SO PLEASE SHUT UP!

08-22-2002, 10:56 AM	#15
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,061 Images: 3	For someone that was going to pass and let everyone have at it your sure on here alot alan! __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

08-22-2002, 11:39 AM	#16
Eric Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 673	I think it's an awesome article. I don't believe God just wants 'bad people' running around, after they have killed all the 'good people' that refused to defend themselves and their families. __________________ I told him straight up, "You are an idiot for bringing those two fists to this gun fight."

08-22-2002, 02:46 PM	#17
BenP Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 395	All, Ultimately, it is up to each of us to determine for ourselves what is right. The article represents mainline christian philosophy on the subject, and I find it acceptable because the explanation makes sense. It has enough reference points that the argument is well supported. I have not seen any other interpretation of this scripture which is fundamentally different from this one. Ergo, lacking significant contradiction, this article represents a sound doctrine of christian belief on the subject of when to turn the other cheek, and when to put foot to a55. Even if you don't accept Christianity, the principles represented in this interpretation are a good standard for a person to live by. Only anarchists would support revenge and intolerance, and then not for long. Whether you're a believer or not, we have to find a way to live together for the most part, and deal with the exceptions in a manner tolerable by the whole. I've packed a firearm for 20 years now, and I've never had to draw down on anyone. There've been plenty of opportunities for me to do so, but I've always found a way to avoid it and still preserve my safety and possessions. If no other choice, then I would not hesitate, and I feel pretty confident that I would be quite effective at defending myself. It's been my experience that temperance and reasoning are signs of wisdom. Pulling that trigger, just like throwing that punch, will most likely be a life altering event for all concerned in this day and age, even discounting litigation issues (re: Hatfield and McCoy). I would prefer to avoid those situations rather than confront them. Last edited by BenP; 08-22-2002 at 02:51 PM.

08-22-2002, 03:03 PM	#18
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,061 Images: 3	Your a good man Ben and I'd back you up on anything you say. We've talked before on this subject and you know I believe in God almighty. I refuse to get in a peeing contest over my beliefs and its not worth getting mad about on a computer. Somepeople refuse to believe and you cannot change them. We will all find out on judgement day.God bless you all and all of yours. __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

08-22-2002, 03:07 PM	#19
Lenny2 Guest Posts: n/a	Well put, BenP. But I have the firm belief that people believe what they want to believe. Thats why it is called faith. If there were proof, there would be no need for interpretation. Tell me if this is an eye for an eye: A person comes up with a cure for a terrible disease, has many children that go on to become great people who accomplich great deeds, contributes many positive things to their community, helps their neighbors, helps strangers, does not harbor hate or ill feelings, sins on the very bottom of the scale, and generally makes the world a better place. This person does great things for 60 years and then dies. Then they burn in hell for all eternity for not accepting Christ. Is this justice?

08-22-2002, 03:26 PM	#20
BenP Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 395	Old testament (re: Jewish Law) All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Those who have not received the word of God will be judged on their actions and their hearts. If they are fundamentally good people, I believe they will go to heaven. Now for the Jews, when's the last time you put a dead animal on the alter? Do jews still practice this means of commuting their sin? How's your heart? What will God see when you stand before him? What will you say when you stand before the creator and he asks you about your sins? For me, God will see Jesus walking beside me to the place of judgement as my advocate. He will hear me say that He promised if I accepted his son as my saviour I would be forgiven. This is my belief. If I am wrong, then I have at least endeavored to live a good life based on a doctrine of love and compassion and aid to my fellow man, and humility to God. If God will judge me on my actions and my heart rather than a false promise made by a madman 2,000 years ago, then I would expect the outcome to be the same as for you or any other person who values these qualities. I try to obey His laws. But I, like all those before me, fail sometimes. I am penitent and regretful, and I find the Gospel to be at least as acceptable a redemption as was the old testament method of sacrificing animals. However, that doesn't change my position about living a life based on the standards Jesus gave, even if He is not the Son of God, his words are wise and the application of His teachings are beneficial for both the individual and society. I could say the same thing for many other world religions, so perhaps humanity is inspired through a belief in a benevolent creator to pursue peaceful, mutually beneficial rules of life and death. I think you'll find many commonalities amongst the world religions along these lines. In fact, there is an organization that has standardized these ideals across religious lines quite successfully. If you put aside our differences, you see that our goals and struggles are really quite the same. I wonder why that is?