McCain says global warming undeniable?

[Coeloptera]

McCain urges free-market principles to reduce global warming - Yahoo! News

Well, that's certain interesting one way or the other.

Took a hard shot at Dubya over Kyoto, too.

Certainly unusual at this stage of things.

- Coeloptera

[Seabeescotty]

Maybe he's trying to get a little support from the other side? I personally feel that the subject is fearmongering, for profit. Don't want to start another argument, but I haven't seen enough proof to convince me otherwise. Right now, with the weather the way it is, I'd be willing to jump on a soapbox, and swear we have another ice age coming! It's supposed to be summer, and I'm still freezin' my butt off!

[TexasT]

I personally don't want to spend tax payer dollars to combat "global warming". I'd only do it if I were sure it were caused largely by our emissions and that we could get the average temp in Texas to stay around 75 degrees.

[LarryO1970]

Given the fact it is a global issue... we should not be the only ones paying out our hard earned money to combat global warming while others do nothing.

Frankly, I have my reservations on how bad it really is and the root causes.

IF it is real AND other countries tax their people accordingly, I might be willing to "give away" some of my hard earned money... but only if they do too...

[CrazyIvan]

Global Warming is true. The idea that Humans have massively encouraged it is not.

[TexasT]

I wonder what the average temp is in China. They have a lot of people and cars in their major cities. I wonder how it's changed over the years.

[Seabeescotty]

I'd like to see Al go over and talk to them about global warming, and see how far he gets, before they run him out of their country. If it is real, we can't solve it unilaterally, and all the other polluting countries need to do as much as we do. I don't think anyone will get China to slow down their polluting, let alone the rest of them, like India, or Russia.

[TXplt]

Reference previous thread ("wizard") when it comes to global warming we're not doing it !!!!!!!

ARGHHHHHH This kills me. I think I'm going to go out and build a coal-fired hydrogen generating power plant in my back yard.......

Although Obama likely has the same views and he's a gun grabber (among other things).

At least John's advocating nukes as well. This is good as long as he doesn't use the "T" word.

I go to China all the time. There's real pollution (NOT made up pollution like CO2) there. LOTS of REAL pollution (soot, mercury, SO2, NOx, Metals, you name it). They don't care. I can see them now--"I got your carbon credits right here, pal." What kind of number ya need--OK that's what we're putting out.

What a scam.....

There's a sucker born every minute.

Let me make this simple: If you hear someone espouting global warming, and they're trying to build reactors or exploit new sources of power which are clean (while using everything in the mean time) they might be worth listening to.

The minute you hear "tax" stop listening and fire the individual (or vote him/her out of office).

Now I'm all fired up again.....

At least the shootin was fun

[KGunner]

I'm not EVEN touching this one. It appears my views differ largely with others here on this issue...and thats fine.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by TexasT

I wonder what the average temp is in China. They have a lot of people and cars in their major cities. I wonder how it's changed over the years.

Oh China is catching up 10 fold. They just haven't quite caught up to us. The problem is there is not enough hard data to back up any claim on either side of the argument. How long have we been recording weather? A few hundred years? that is a blink of the eye compared to how old the Earth really is. We know we had an ice age, but what caused it is all theory.

There is no doubt that we are destroying the Earth, but the severity is up for grabs and there are blanketed statements and posh studies done on both sides. What I think we do know is that global warming is a process and that it may not affect us now, but who is to say 500 years from now it won't have a negative impact?

I don't think it is a bad idea to try to clean up our pollutions and be more proactive but I wouldn't put it as one of the most important things to fix right now, nor would I want our government fixing it. I think that EPA regulations are a good start, and companies should be required to be clean because it is an ethic and moral responsibility not to abuse the planet for others, but at the same time I think we need some unbiased science studies done on it to get the real deal.

[dhermesc]

China has already surpassed the US in CO2 emmissions and several times over the US in "real" pollution.


China overtakes US as world's biggest CO2 emitter | Environment | guardian.co.uk


"China has overtaken the United States as the world's biggest producer of carbon dioxide, the chief greenhouse gas, figures released today show."


I will admit you have to wonder how accurate the story is when they refer to carbon as the chief green house gas, it only makes up 2% of the green house effect - water vapor makes up 95% of the green house effect.

[CrazyIvan]

The more I think about it...they talk about the Perma-Frost decreasing in Alaska. Given the jetstream, I wonder if the pollution created over Asia is blown East, along with the jetstream, over North America, causing increased heat in Alaska and degredation in the Perma-Fronst

[Rambo]

Holy crap! McCain talking liberal gibberish? Has he seen the light or just the glimmer of some crossover votes? Obama had better look out or I might switch.

[nathangdad]

. . . . mean by free market correction Wal Mart should quit sending billions of America dollars to China for goods produced in coal fired economy so polluted they are going to shut down manufacturing plants so the athletes can perform to their potential at the Olympics? Does it mean manufacturing and jobs should be in America?

It must be nice to marry money and have a political career. It would be nicer for middle class Americans if we had an intellectual leader
interested and capable of enlarging our ranks, providing and promoting
greater freedoms, and protecting our interests in the retirement and medical access areas.

[TXplt]

If you want to know who pays in this "cap and trade" scam I'll tell you who--

We do !

Maybe Pred's right !

BTW, carbon credits are the ultimate form of scam. They're completely arbitrary, unmeasurable in their effects, and unenforcable between nations (and within, as well--we can create a black market of nothing--carbon credits).

[troy2000]

Nothing really new from McCain on this subject; he's expressed his belief in global warming for years, and said that even if he were wrong, the steps taken to combat it would do the environment good in the long run.

Note that he also isn't proposing a unilateral solution, where the U.S. carries the burden of the whole world's sins. He specifically mentioned India and China as major polluters who need to be dealt with.

I've seen several people on these forums laughing at the whole concept of capping and trading emissions. Apparently they don't realize that, as the article notes, the same method was very successful in cutting back on the sulphur dioxide that was causing acid rain.

[stalebiscuit]

why would anyone waste their time on an issue like global warming, its so lame

[TXplt]

If you don't know if something is causing something bad, it's wholly impossible to quantify how much of that something is too much or what the ration should be. Nor is the carbon thing (which isn't causing global warming, I believe) really quantifiable in any way between nations (i.e. China or Russia or anyone else will have no problem "cheating" to their heart's desire. The additional regulation and monitoring will have no value added and a real bureaucracy and cost, dragging down and already ailing economy and energy situation). Countries you buy "credits" from will have wholly arbitrary limits--let's say you buy carbon "credits" from some third world country not producing anything right now (for not producing stuff--how silly is that ?). What's to stop them from down the road saying "the hell with y'all, we're going to burn all the coal we want now." Nothing. Let's say we buy a bunch of credits from China--what's to say they won't do business as usual and just take our money. We are only hurting ourself. Carbon trading's a scam, Troy. As you look in the past, look at the exploitation of money by organized religions for "paying" for sins. Carbon trading is science's "religion" way of doing this--it's absolutely no different given the current evidence. I'm not laughing--this will cause very real damage to our economy and hurt the middle and lower classes the most. A black market will emerge in energy just like alcohol did during prohibition--and the rich will be the only ones who can pay for the luxuries of guzzling energy (kinda like mr. gore I believe). This will cause class stratification for the most basic of needs--food and shelter. And you're not entirely correct about the SO2 thing--it was mostly technological advances in scrubbers that admittedly were mandated. I don't think it was a credit so much as an efficiency thing. We studied some of this years ago in college. BTW, a 1200 MW plant even with a functioning scrubber still puts out about 86,000 TONS of SO2 a year, give or take depending on the coal. You can't easily scrub CO2 (although there are some costly ways to capture it). Hence the scam.

Anyhow, I feel better now after a nice drive in the wife's SUV--we drove over to look at trains with our kid and were rewarded with not only a big old diesel freight train starting up and moving, but also belching out a carbon-laden "plume of progress"

[Deersniper]

Every body is getting on the bandwagon for this global tax. That's all it is, another way to tax us. What do trees breath? CO2. The temperatures here in Texas has been cooler than ever. Thousands of top scientists have concluded that his is a sham, a dream of a stoned ex vice president. If the military industrial complex and corporations would quit putting out all this smog, and pollution, we wouldn't have a problem. It's all about getting you on that bus or light rail so they can search your bags, people. Please wake up and smell the treachery.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Deersniper

Every body is getting on the bandwagon for this global tax. That's all it is, another way to tax us. What do trees breath? CO2. The temperatures here in Texas has been cooler than ever. Thousands of top scientists have concluded that his is a sham, a dream of a stoned ex vice president. If the military industrial complex and corporations would quit putting out all this smog, and pollution, we wouldn't have a problem. It's all about getting you on that bus or light rail so they can search your bags, people. Please wake up and smell the treachery.

Ahhh....no. "Thousands of top scientists" have not concluded that global warming is a sham. The vast majority of them have accepted it as real enough to be used as a working hypothesis, and moved on.