What Are the Wounds of War?

privateer · 05-14-2008, 10:44 PM

Amen

Minionsram · 05-14-2008, 11:06 PM

I say leave the PH alone. make another medal if you need to. My father Recieved 3 Purple hearts in vietnam and had not one on his person. He said he left them there for his commrads whos wounds did not allow them to come home. My major beef is this with a ptsd medal. ( hate me or not, I dont care) The military today has alot of "look at me" people in it. Someone is sooking for an excuse to serve 2 years as a supply cleark in the rear, far away from combat, and have the g-mant pay some sort of "disability" for the rest of his life so he/she doesent have to work for a living once they get that medical discharge. That takes the glory and respect from the persons who like my father have had serious illness/ injury and continued to work/serve till there dieing day. I have seen a few persons that are like that. Now before yall go jumping the gun on me, by me saying the supply cleark for example, does not mean they should not get reconiton for their service or that they do not have it rought over there. EVERY position in the military is NEEDED. I just used that as an example. So flame on people.

Marine1 · 05-15-2008, 08:44 AM

[quote=HARDERTR;508847]The Purple Heart is a joke nowadays.

Veteran...respectfully speaking....the Purple Heart is "never" a joke.....even if it is awarded under other conditions....some do not think was of a qualifying nature. Honor the medal, itself. They went, they served, they were in harms way. They did not duck out to a foreign border. Think about this !

Seabeescotty · 05-15-2008, 08:57 AM

Two of the kids in my close circle came home with purple hearts. One is a nephew, who was headed to the "john" when it got hit by one of those big, inaccurate mortar rounds. He got showered by shrapnel, and you know what. The other young man is the son of a good friend, who was wounded on his recon vehicle. His vehicle commander was killed by the same blast. He will carry that for the rest of his life. For every one person who uses the system for personal gain, there are thousands who don't. Many of those thousands never even apply. Yes, there are bad apples out there, but the system works for those who have earned it. They started upgrading my disability, without any action by me, and when I was unable to continue fulltime work, they came to my aid. I have known a few, who used it for a free ride, but most are deserving of the help. Like Marine1 said, lets leave the purple heart alone, and respect it for what it signifies, wounds received in combat.

LarryO1970 · 05-15-2008, 09:18 AM

[quote=Marine1;509710]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HARDERTR

The Purple Heart is a joke nowadays.

Veteran...respectfully speaking....the Purple Heart is "never" a joke.....even if it is awarded under other conditions....some do not think was of a qualifying nature. Honor the medal, itself. They went, they served, they were in harms way. They did not duck out to a foreign border. Think about this !

Much agreed Marine1.

While I never personally saw combat... in Saudi Arabia, I certainly saw 19 friends killed in a very violent way. By God's grace, I never got a scratch. I guess I was actually in the right place at the right time? Some friends were shredded from head to toe by glass shards and did not want the Purple Hearts while a few others got the medal through lying about injuries received.

I would like to state an opinion here without trampling the sacred ground combat veterans share. In my humble opinion... not being a combat veteran, believe that those who "earned" them, do not want them. Another poster here said those who earned them are still planted on foreign soil. To them, the Purple Heart is not a joke, as they made the ultimate sacrifice.

When I was a kid... just before heading off to Basic Training, I had a talk with my Grandfather. He was a WWII firefighter who saw enough to not want to talk about it. I recall telling my Grandfather I wanted every medal I could possibly have (being a naive, stupid kid) and he asked me if I wanted a Purple Heart. Being that naive, stupid kid... of course I said yes. He then proceeded to ask me why I wanted to wear a marksmanship award for the enemy. It made sense then.

To get back on track here... PTSD is an evil animal. While it was around during the inception of the Purple Heart Medal, not much to anything was known of PTSD. The Medal is what it is, for combat related injuries. It needs to stay that way.

IF those in Congress want to create another medal for mental problems relating from stresses experienced in the military, they'll need to come up with something else.

Cyrano · 05-15-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWanderingMind

I not only object to giving a Purple Heart to mental stress cases, I object to the current ranking of the Purple Heart among medals. It ranks with the Bronze Star Medal.

The Purple Heart should rank in the "Service Medals" category, not in the "Gallantry Awards."

Yes, honor the Purple Heart! My dad got two of them in the Pacific in War Deuce, and I think they're proper recognition. But don't degrade the medal by handing it out for PTSD and don't equate it with the gallantry awards.

Mind, I have to politely disagree with your perception of the Purple Heart. My dad had two of them as well from service in Europe as a combat infantryman. The Purple Heart (which Dad referred to as the "I Forgot to Duck Medal" one time to the guys on my cousin's hospital ward, to the laughter of all of them) is awarded for physical wounds suffered as a result of enemy action. Generally, you have to be pretty close to the enemy to get hit in a conventional war. In an insurgency like Iraq, where boobytraps and IEDs cause more casualties than enemy fire, the enemy is still causing the wounds even if not by direct fire. Again, you have to be in the combat zone to be hit.

And by the way, it does not rank alongside the Bronze Star. It ranks behind it in the awards for valor; and ahead of the Good Conduct Medal and the Commendation Medal, both of which are awards of merit. Conceding the point that the Purple Heart does not require valor as a criterion for the awarding of the medal, it does require being wounded as a result of enemy action, even if that 'action' is the planting of an IED and not a rifle bullet.

I am sure the Purple Heart should not be awarded for post-traumatic stress disorder. It deserves to be reserved for wounds as a result of enemy action. Perhaps the criteria for the Commendation Medal need to be extended to cover PTSD, since you have to be in a combat zone to contract that, but not necessarily in combat. I do not feel creating a new medal to cover that would be prudent. As others on the forum have mentioned, it could be used by the civil authorities as grounds to deny firearms ownership to military veterans. The Commendation Medal already can be awarded for so many things, adding one more would pass unnoticed by the anitgun crowd.

What I feel is needed is a new medal for merit that would return the Bronze Star to its position as an award for combat valor, rather than also being available for award for military merit as is currently the case. (That's why the V for Valor device that attaches to the ribbon was created to begin with; so folks could tell the real Bronze Stars from the ones not awarded for combat actions.) But that's another issue.

In essence: leave the criteria for the Purple Heart alone. Don't try to lump in PTSD with it; that illness doesn't belong there.

ezearln · 05-15-2008, 12:10 PM

While I am still not actually permited to confirm or deny my possible involvement or non-involvement in any actual combat theatre, I am deeply saddened by some of the opinions I have read here trivializing the Purple Heart. I understand how it does seem to be handed out sometimes to those not truly in a combat area, but let me relate this as well as I can to you so maybe some here can understand why I think it should be regarded as was intended. "A nations Thank You" for your sacrifice and your wounds"

My Father is a Korean War veteran, and served in theatre until the ceasefire was signed. His MOS was a cook, however he served with and functioned in an infantry regiment which was part of the 7th Infantry. He was a BAR man. During his time "In-Country" he was wounded 7 separate times and was subsequently awarded the Purple Heart 7 times. According to his DD214A he was also nominated twice for the Silver Star, and was Awarded the Bronze Star (Valor) twice. My Grandmother kept an extensive scrapbook of stories about him and his unit which were printed by the local newspapers. Below is an except of one such article:

Korea 1952: Receiving information that a "friendly" radio station had ceased transmitting, a patrol from the 7th was dispatched to investigate the stations status. The patrol led by SSGT Carroll F. Miller,USA came under ambush by a company of NKA regulars, in the open SGT Miller refusing to find cover ordered his men back and to cover while laying down heavy automatic fire upon the enemy. Employing both his BAR and grenades SGT Miller, now wounded still refused to find cover until his men were repositioned and had begun to return fire. Such was the intensity of the patrols counter attack that the NKA retreated permitting SGT Miller to lead his patrol and retire until reinforcements could arrive.

It was in this action that Dad was awarded both the Bronze Star (Valor) and one of his Purple Hearts, this is the atypical reason I believe the Purple Heart deserves far more respect that it seems to get today. If a new medal or award is seen to be necessary for PTSD lets design and strike a new one for that injury. But leave the Purple Heart as is.

rice paddy dadd · 05-16-2008, 12:03 PM

I received "counseling" from the VA for PTSD for a number of years as a result of my trip to Vietnam.
I say that not to brag or elicit sympathy, but to qualify my next statement: The Purple Heart has been and should remain awarded for shedding blood, not mental issues. Every person who experiences combat is changed to some degree. Some more, some less. The trauma that comes with combat actually changes the chemistry of the brain, and the way the brain functions.
In my war, the only award for participation in combat for an Army guy was the Combat Infantryman's Badge, which could only be awarded to an Infantry MOS - 11B. This has been since changed to allow others to earn the Combat Action Ribbon, which is a welcome change.
I have some awards, but to me, most medals CAN be awarded for BS reasons, but 2 are sacred. The Purple Heart, and the CIB. These two need to be left alone. Any enlisted man who has either (or both) is a hero in my book. Altho they probably don't think so.

KGunner · 05-16-2008, 12:12 PM

Patton would be ardently opposed to this.
I agree with many others here it should be a new medal if anything.

Seabeescotty · 05-16-2008, 01:43 PM

It seems that we veterans are in agreement on this issue. Leave it ALONE! And give the award the respect it is due. Yes, there are some who got the medal for BS reasons, just as there are some who were awarded other medals of valor for BS reasons, But it doesn't make sense to dirty ALL the medals that have been awarded. My oldest son was awarded a JSCM, that he felt he didn't rate. I explained that the general who recommended him for it, apparently thought otherwise, and to wear it with pride. The general happened to be Craig Boddington, a Marine Brigadier general who also supports the rights of hunters, and sport shooters.

All in all, I think we need to leave the military awards to the military, and not worry about the few mistakes that have been made!

The purple heart, in my book, will always be a medal to wear with pride, as a symbol of the sacrifice one has made for his or her country.

turner · 05-16-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

It seems that we veterans are in agreement on this issue. Leave it ALONE! And give the award the respect it is due. Yes, there are some who got the medal for BS reasons, just as there are some who were awarded other medals of valor for BS reasons, But it doesn't make sense to dirty ALL the medals that have been awarded. My oldest son was awarded a JSCM, that he felt he didn't rate. I explained that the general who recommended him for it, apparently thought otherwise, and to wear it with pride. The general happened to be Craig Boddington, a Marine Brigadier general who also supports the rights of hunters, and sport shooters.

All in all, I think we need to leave the military awards to the military, and not worry about the few mistakes that have been made!

The purple heart, in my book, will always be a medal to wear with pride, as a symbol of the sacrifice one has made for his or her country.

+1 In my career I've seen many awards earned, and a few, given. I agree that a warrior's wounds should be the physical type to warrant the P.H. I have perhaps 25 medals/ribbons from my career(never really counted) and look upon all who were awarded that one with great reverence and respect. As an additional comment to all here... please remember Memorial Day is fast approaching and I'll hope at least some of you spend at least some of that special day as I do every year, in a cemetary remembering why it is we are able to enjoy our BBQs and 6 packs on a day off. Thanks, and God Bless this nation.

Seabeescotty · 05-16-2008, 09:55 PM

Thanks Turner. I always go to pay my respects, and spend a quiet day in reflection. I used to just go to the lake, and ski and party, and try to forget. Until it quit working, that is. The quiet day is much better, and gives me time to think about those who never came home, who remain forever young in our minds. And it gives me time to thank the Lord for bringing me home, and giving me time to raise a family, and watchthem grow into responsible, young adults. For all this, I give thanks.

Marine1 · 05-17-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rice paddy dadd

I received "counseling" from the VA for PTSD for a number of years as a result of my trip to Vietnam.
I say that not to brag or elicit sympathy, but to qualify my next statement: The Purple Heart has been and should remain awarded for shedding blood, not mental issues. Every person who experiences combat is changed to some degree. Some more, some less. The trauma that comes with combat actually changes the chemistry of the brain, and the way the brain functions.
In my war, the only award for participation in combat for an Army guy was the Combat Infantryman's Badge, which could only be awarded to an Infantry MOS - 11B. This has been since changed to allow others to earn the Combat Action Ribbon, which is a welcome change.
I have some awards, but to me, most medals CAN be awarded for BS reasons, but 2 are sacred. The Purple Heart, and the CIB. These two need to be left alone. Any enlisted man who has either (or both) is a hero in my book. Altho they probably don't think so.

Welcome Home, Bro!

05-15-2008, 08:57 AM	#24
Seabeescotty The ol' Coot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 4,567 Images: 18 Blog Entries: 1	Two of the kids in my close circle came home with purple hearts. One is a nephew, who was headed to the "john" when it got hit by one of those big, inaccurate mortar rounds. He got showered by shrapnel, and you know what. The other young man is the son of a good friend, who was wounded on his recon vehicle. His vehicle commander was killed by the same blast. He will carry that for the rest of his life. For every one person who uses the system for personal gain, there are thousands who don't. Many of those thousands never even apply. Yes, there are bad apples out there, but the system works for those who have earned it. They started upgrading my disability, without any action by me, and when I was unable to continue fulltime work, they came to my aid. I have known a few, who used it for a free ride, but most are deserving of the help. Like Marine1 said, lets leave the purple heart alone, and respect it for what it signifies, wounds received in combat. __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge

05-15-2008, 12:10 PM	#27
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	While I am still not actually permited to confirm or deny my possible involvement or non-involvement in any actual combat theatre, I am deeply saddened by some of the opinions I have read here trivializing the Purple Heart. I understand how it does seem to be handed out sometimes to those not truly in a combat area, but let me relate this as well as I can to you so maybe some here can understand why I think it should be regarded as was intended. "A nations Thank You" for your sacrifice and your wounds" My Father is a Korean War veteran, and served in theatre until the ceasefire was signed. His MOS was a cook, however he served with and functioned in an infantry regiment which was part of the 7th Infantry. He was a BAR man. During his time "In-Country" he was wounded 7 separate times and was subsequently awarded the Purple Heart 7 times. According to his DD214A he was also nominated twice for the Silver Star, and was Awarded the Bronze Star (Valor) twice. My Grandmother kept an extensive scrapbook of stories about him and his unit which were printed by the local newspapers. Below is an except of one such article: Korea 1952: Receiving information that a "friendly" radio station had ceased transmitting, a patrol from the 7th was dispatched to investigate the stations status. The patrol led by SSGT Carroll F. Miller,USA came under ambush by a company of NKA regulars, in the open SGT Miller refusing to find cover ordered his men back and to cover while laying down heavy automatic fire upon the enemy. Employing both his BAR and grenades SGT Miller, now wounded still refused to find cover until his men were repositioned and had begun to return fire. Such was the intensity of the patrols counter attack that the NKA retreated permitting SGT Miller to lead his patrol and retire until reinforcements could arrive. It was in this action that Dad was awarded both the Bronze Star (Valor) and one of his Purple Hearts, this is the atypical reason I believe the Purple Heart deserves far more respect that it seems to get today. If a new medal or award is seen to be necessary for PTSD lets design and strike a new one for that injury. But leave the Purple Heart as is. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

05-16-2008, 12:12 PM	#29
KGunner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 515 Blog Entries: 5	Patton would be ardently opposed to this. I agree with many others here it should be a new medal if anything. __________________ If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd probably rather be dead.

05-16-2008, 01:43 PM	#30
Seabeescotty The ol' Coot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 4,567 Images: 18 Blog Entries: 1	It seems that we veterans are in agreement on this issue. Leave it ALONE! And give the award the respect it is due. Yes, there are some who got the medal for BS reasons, just as there are some who were awarded other medals of valor for BS reasons, But it doesn't make sense to dirty ALL the medals that have been awarded. My oldest son was awarded a JSCM, that he felt he didn't rate. I explained that the general who recommended him for it, apparently thought otherwise, and to wear it with pride. The general happened to be Craig Boddington, a Marine Brigadier general who also supports the rights of hunters, and sport shooters. All in all, I think we need to leave the military awards to the military, and not worry about the few mistakes that have been made! The purple heart, in my book, will always be a medal to wear with pride, as a symbol of the sacrifice one has made for his or her country. __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge

05-16-2008, 09:55 PM	#32
Seabeescotty The ol' Coot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 4,567 Images: 18 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks Turner. I always go to pay my respects, and spend a quiet day in reflection. I used to just go to the lake, and ski and party, and try to forget. Until it quit working, that is. The quiet day is much better, and gives me time to think about those who never came home, who remain forever young in our minds. And it gives me time to thank the Lord for bringing me home, and giving me time to raise a family, and watchthem grow into responsible, young adults. For all this, I give thanks. __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge

05-14-2008, 10:44 PM	#21
privateer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Anchorage , Alaska Posts: 514 Images: 1	Amen

05-14-2008, 11:06 PM	#22
Minionsram Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 71	I say leave the PH alone. make another medal if you need to. My father Recieved 3 Purple hearts in vietnam and had not one on his person. He said he left them there for his commrads whos wounds did not allow them to come home. My major beef is this with a ptsd medal. ( hate me or not, I dont care) The military today has alot of "look at me" people in it. Someone is sooking for an excuse to serve 2 years as a supply cleark in the rear, far away from combat, and have the g-mant pay some sort of "disability" for the rest of his life so he/she doesent have to work for a living once they get that medical discharge. That takes the glory and respect from the persons who like my father have had serious illness/ injury and continued to work/serve till there dieing day. I have seen a few persons that are like that. Now before yall go jumping the gun on me, by me saying the supply cleark for example, does not mean they should not get reconiton for their service or that they do not have it rought over there. EVERY position in the military is NEEDED. I just used that as an example. So flame on people.

05-15-2008, 08:44 AM	#23
Marine1 Runnin' With The Big Dogs Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 862 Images: 4	[quote=HARDERTR;508847]The Purple Heart is a joke nowadays. Veteran...respectfully speaking....the Purple Heart is "never" a joke.....even if it is awarded under other conditions....some do not think was of a qualifying nature. Honor the medal, itself. They went, they served, they were in harms way. They did not duck out to a foreign border. Think about this !

05-16-2008, 12:03 PM	#28
rice paddy dadd Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 20	I received "counseling" from the VA for PTSD for a number of years as a result of my trip to Vietnam. I say that not to brag or elicit sympathy, but to qualify my next statement: The Purple Heart has been and should remain awarded for shedding blood, not mental issues. Every person who experiences combat is changed to some degree. Some more, some less. The trauma that comes with combat actually changes the chemistry of the brain, and the way the brain functions. In my war, the only award for participation in combat for an Army guy was the Combat Infantryman's Badge, which could only be awarded to an Infantry MOS - 11B. This has been since changed to allow others to earn the Combat Action Ribbon, which is a welcome change. I have some awards, but to me, most medals CAN be awarded for BS reasons, but 2 are sacred. The Purple Heart, and the CIB. These two need to be left alone. Any enlisted man who has either (or both) is a hero in my book. Altho they probably don't think so.