Democrats and guns

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by TXplt

I remember from the movie about Citizen Kane (RKO something or other--not a blockbuster, but I enjoyed it) a line that said "pretty speeches change the world, Jack"

There's some truth in this--devils and saints throughout history have been pretty speakers. Hitler was a good speaker. I'm NOT comparing Hitler with anyone running with office, so don't get the wrong meaning. I am saying that those who speak well (no matter who) can be very dangerous for a nation if they're not a "saint" and should not be underestimated.

Oh I totally agree. So was Stalin, Mussolini, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Makiaveli, Churchill, Guevara, so on and so forth. All leaders who led well (not counting the out come) were great speakers and touched the people enough to engulf them into whatever it was they were trying to accomplish be it good or bad.

Communication skills are a must for any leader in my honest opinion. Other circumstance apply to, like if a society is going through an economic depression, and a political leader takes them out of said depression, for example. There are lots of factors but speech giving and communication are two definite big ones. I mean the people that are successful in business are also great speakers.

I had to give a keynote once on technology to several hundred people, I was pretty damn nervous. I could do it a lot easier now that I have done it once, but I haven't ever had to give a speech to like millions of people, that is a whole new level.

[samuel]

I believe we are all afraid of the same impending circumstances and since we dont know what to do about it or how we can stop it we are fighting on this forum between ourselves.I can't see any gain in it.Cleoptara,if I said anything offensive I ask your forgiveness.It is just that I am truly scared and would like to do something to prevent what seems inevitable. sam.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by TXplt

I think it's wise to talk with one's enemies; I think it very unwise to do so unarmed. Both Mao and Ronald Reagan recognized this; "trust but verify" and foreign policy through strength from the latter resulted in the successful conclusion of the Cold War (at least the first chapter--we're all still here). One would argue that RR had help from the Socialistic Soviet economy collapsing under it's own weight due to inefficiency and overregulation (Glad Barry wouldn't try to take us there ). I remember Jimmy Carter, and I remember serving under RR. Give me RR anyday. Although McCain ain't him he's closer than anyone else running. I very much don't believe that McCain wouldn't speak with our enemies; I very much do believe he'd deny them the naive legitimacy and hide from the tiger in the corner trust that barry would encorage (and this is where gun control is very telling about barry). RR did the same thing with the soviets--he negotiated with them, but from a position of strength and advantage. There's a distinct difference there--barry would negotiate from a position of hopeful blind trust. This doesn't work.
Clinton was at least partially successful at chipping away at our RKBA. I remember shortly after DS 1 we'd usually have our pistols on base. Even in 1987, at Williams, we were OK with guns in the cars--the SP's actually put out a flyer with AZ law on it letting you know the low down on open carry, cars and guns, no carry areas, etc. (it was policy guns not in the BOQ's--that is policy not law). That ended under klinton--and in most federal places too (even with ccw). Bush has continued this as well, and it's still not right. Klinton would have banned if he could; barry would do the same. I think McCain wouldn't pursue the continued erosion.
Like I said, I'm not real stoked about him, but I really think he's the lesser of the evils we have this time around (again)

I agree: there's nothing wrong with talking to our enemies, as long as we don't think talking is a substitute for strength; the two go hand in hand. We never stopped talking to the Soviets during the entire Cold War.

Personally, I don't think Obama would negotiate from a position of hopeful blind trust; I doubt he survived Chicago politics by being a starry-eyed, naive Pollyanna. Or that he beat the Clintons successfully on their own turf by being an unrealistic optimist.

I don't like Obama's viewpoint on guns, obviously. But I also have serious doubts McCain would stand up to a Democratic Congress on the subject of "assault" weapons or other restrictions.

I keep telling myself, "it still beats having to choose between Hillary or Rudy..."

[andrew cochran]

Originally Posted by samuel

The democrats already think they have won veto proof congress and the presidential election and it looks like they have. I am hearing more about bringing back the assault weapons ban,handgun ban,idenity ammo,and more.It looks like they will win a veto proof congress and besides I believe the weak kneed republicans would vote with the gun grabbers anyway.It is my opinion that the supreme court will hand the DC decision back to the lower courts instead of making a ruling on second amendment rights.This would guarantee anti gun laws popping up all over.(not that they wont anyway)I predict a gungrab like England had within 1to2yrs.With 90mil.gun owners this sounds impossible but with the anti,s ability to sneak their bills in on some giveaway deal that sounds good to people with their hands out,which makes up more than half the population(including illegals)and a veto proof congress,a democrat president,or both,I dont believe the anti,s can fail.I believe gun ownership in the U.S. is almost over.When the guns go,our freedom goes too.I am very depressed. sam.

I'ts making me depressed too. You aint the only one.

[tlarkin]

I wouldn't be so sure on where McCain stands. I've been watching a lot of youtube videos and I can't seem to get where this guy really stands on anything....

YouTube - McCain's YouTube Problem Just Became a...

Not trying to start a flame war, but where exactly does he stand on anything?

[ArkansasHunter]

Pertaining to Samuels post above... We need 3 to 5 more million gun owners to join the NRA NOW !!!

[TXplt]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Pertaining to Samuels post above... We need 3 to 5 more million gun owners to join the NRA NOW !!!

+ 1 (and 3 million).

[andrew cochran]

I gotta do it.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

I wouldn't be so sure on where McCain stands. I've been watching a lot of youtube videos and I can't seem to get where this guy really stands on anything....

YouTube - McCain's YouTube Problem Just Became a Nightmare

Not trying to start a flame war, but where exactly does he stand on anything?

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

Originally Posted by tlarkin

McCain doesn't know the differences between a Shiite or a Suni either, and that could possibly be a problem for foreign affairs.

Don't be an idiot. Of course he knows the difference. I'm pretty sure that your mouth does things without your brains' influence on a moment to moment basis so you ought to understand.

Originally Posted by Coeloptera

Umm...I said Harry Reid's was surprisingly moderate. And watch the tone, hm? Lil' less civil than I like to hear.

You fail at reading comprehension.

So, while we're on the subject, who does McCain belong to?

Frankly it's views like yours that make me go vote for people like this, sometimes. Unwavering, almost paranoid. Clinton didn't take our guns. Carter didn't take 'em. Clinton floated some stuff and it got cut away soon enough.

I'll take shoddy attempts like that to what Bush and co. have done to our civil liberties and gotten away with. I think the Right needs a time out for a while until they figure out what they should be doing for this country.

I also trust someone who'll talk to our enemies, even while we recognize their threat, than "Hundred Years" McCain and his pie-in-the-sky 2013 speech. Reagan talked to Russia all through the Cold War. McCain says actually letting the POTUS talk to an enemy gives them legitimacy. Guess he's not as big a student of the Gipper as he might make out, hm?

- Coeloptera

See "Liberal Debate Rules" items 3 & 4 of 24

"3. Leftists need never document their claims."

[TexasT]

Everyone who is voting for McCain know exactly why they aren't voting for Obama or Hillary. Any arguments that are usually made are made against O/H and not for McCain. OTHER THAN GUNS, why are you voting for McCain? What issues make you want to vote for him?

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by TexasT

Everyone who is voting for McCain know exactly why they aren't voting for Obama or Hillary. Any arguments that are usually made are made against O/H and not for McCain. OTHER THAN GUNS, why are you voting for McCain? What issues make you want to vote for him?

Because I will never again vote for a Democrat.

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

Because I will never again vote for a Democrat.

Is that your argument?

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by TexasT

Is that your argument?

I don't think I made an argument. I think I made a statement.

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

I don't think I made an argument. I think I made a statement.

Care to make a valid statement for McCain. Perhaps highlighting why he's so great?

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by TexasT

Care to make a valid statement for McCain. Perhaps highlighting why he's so great?

It's not that McCain is so great, it's that the Democrats are so lousy.

[TXplt]

TT--I believe O totally lacks ability, skill, and knowledge in both foreign policy and energy policy. He'd ban "fissile materials" and says so like he means (and knows, which he doesn't) what he's talking about--this is our only way out of our energy predicament, actually. Unilateral disarmament has never worked either, although, from a position of strength, we can work out treaties to reduce arms between nations. Again, I'm not stoked about McCain, but I do see him as someone capable of both strength and negotiation in the world. I also believe he will explore nuclear power, and will hopefully reign in his "cap and tap" and other wacky environmental stances (although these are shared by both democrats). Mc Cain has at least fought in a war, and knows of the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. I believe he can be a respectable commander in chief in this respect. O/H can't. McCain has resolve, and will be exploited by those who would do us harm less than those running against him. McCain won't try to destroy the private markets (to the extent his opponents will) by regulation and taxation. Most private markets function well on their own, thank you, and governmental involvement only induces inefficiencies and screws them up (there are some like public goods and externalities which do require gov't intervention--don't really want to get into econ discussion though). I think McCain understands private markets better than o/h, and will do less to screw with them. It's ludicrous to hear of Congress talking about the sacred cow of minimum wage--a first year economics student can demonstrate to you a minimum wage is always a bad thing for any economy. In most labor markets, it has no effect whatsoever; where it does, it simply throws a disporportionate amount of people out of work and on to the dole. But don't take my word for it--ask an economics guy.

I think he doesn't jump in with "pipe dream" health care without trying to at least derive some type of funding source. I can come up with all kind of buzz words too, but where the rubber meets the road (i.e. the "pay for" part of universal health care), I believe McCain to be of more substance.

I also, although he's been in warshington way too long, believe his personal integrety to be orders of magnitude above his opponents. Just my opinion.

[Coeloptera]

Originally Posted by samuel

I believe we are all afraid of the same impending circumstances and since we dont know what to do about it or how we can stop it we are fighting on this forum between ourselves.I can't see any gain in it.Cleoptara,if I said anything offensive I ask your forgiveness.It is just that I am truly scared and would like to do something to prevent what seems inevitable. sam.

S'okay. You just got a little snipey. And it's not Cleopatra...sheesh.

Hey Mitch, how about Habeus Corpus?

That enough for ya? And your pathetic little "Liberal Debate Tatics" schtick is getting old. Document what? McCain's 2013 speech which is all over the 'net for anyone who cares to look? If you'd pay attention, you'd realize I document excessively on threads, to the point a few people said I tend to run on a bit. And I do sometimes.

Your "never vote for a Democrat" thing also shows such a simplistic understanding of real politics that I start to doubt you're even worth debating with anymore. Because obviously anyone in an entire political party composed of literally millions of people that has existed since about 1813 or so isn't ever worth voting for no matter what. Never ever.

You're like a child, and I'm done with you. You're a troll. I'm flat-out calling it. There are plenty of people on this forum I may disagree with, sometimes vehemently, but none as objectionable as you. Welcome to the ignore list.

- Coeloptera

[patrick70]

Originally Posted by TexasT

Care to make a valid statement for McCain. Perhaps highlighting why he's so great?

He voted to keep Bush's tax cuts in place,where as obama voted against it, and he is strong on foriegn policy,I believe he can keep this country safe,and I would trust him with the economy much more so than obama.He's a better overall canidate.And lets not forget the second admendment.

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

Because I will never again vote for a Democrat.

I agree with Mitch,I could never vote for a Democrat again either.Unless they got somebody more middle of the road,then maybe.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by Coeloptera

S'okay. You just got a little snipey. And it's not Cleopatra...sheesh.

Hey Mitch, how about Habeus Corpus?

That enough for ya? And your pathetic little "Liberal Debate Tatics" schtick is getting old. Document what? McCain's 2013 speech which is all over the 'net for anyone who cares to look? If you'd pay attention, you'd realize I document excessively on threads, to the point a few people said I tend to run on a bit. And I do sometimes.

Your "never vote for a Democrat" thing also shows such a simplistic understanding of real politics that I start to doubt you're even worth debating with anymore. Because obviously anyone in an entire political party composed of literally millions of people that has existed since about 1813 or so isn't ever worth voting for no matter what. Never ever.

You're like a child, and I'm done with you. You're a troll. I'm flat-out calling it. There are plenty of people on this forum I may disagree with, sometimes vehemently, but none as objectionable as you. Welcome to the ignore list.

- Coeloptera

So, your answer is to have a hissy fit?

If what you say is true then it ought ot be easy to prove it.

Just admit that you cannot document your blathering and go cry to your momma. Perhaps she will listen to your lies as she always did and not challenge you and make you cry.

You really are not very good at this.

The basic for of debate for a liberal is to lie, repeat the lie, and adamantly refuse to stand for any form of verification. You people think that you are just so right, so elite, so sure of what is good for the rest of us that you can say any damn thing you want and never be called to task, or if you do, you have a hissy fit and run off crying about the mean ole' conservatives.

Have fun with your little ignore button. I'll still be here challenging your ignorant babble.

[Coeloptera]

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

Just admit that you cannot document your blathering and go cry to your momma. Perhaps she will listen to your lies as she always did and not challenge you and make you cry.

You really are not very good at this.

Heh, glad I checked this one last time.

You ain't no man at all, little boy. No man at all. See, a real man wouldn't feel the need to start tossing around momma-based insults. But then there's real men, then there's you. Tough guy behind a keyboard little boy. Tough guy.

Now I'm done.

- Coeloptera