here's an easy one

johno · 08-27-2002, 11:08 PM

can anyone name for me just one liberal who is not a hypocrite, traitor or crimminal? i don't think there are any.

Doglips · 08-27-2002, 11:10 PM

Well Bill Clinton is my personal hero..I belive that he spoke the truth from his hart and provideed this country with a storng moral role modle.

PAPA G · 08-27-2002, 11:14 PM

man!!! when you say easy??? you have a better chance of taking big foot out for a few beers!!!:nod:

wes · 08-27-2002, 11:17 PM

Thomas Jefferson considered himself a liberal.

johno · 08-27-2002, 11:20 PM

it is easy. it's not very hard to figure out that there are none.

johno · 08-27-2002, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wes
Thomas Jefferson considered himself a liberal.

but by today's standards he would be very conservative. i do admire and have a lot of respect for thomas jefferson though.

wes · 08-27-2002, 11:24 PM

Very true,johno.

oneastrix · 08-28-2002, 12:03 AM

I like to follow the good reverend (notice the lack of capitilization) Jesse Jackson!

FEG · 08-28-2002, 12:26 AM

Seriously, my vote goes for Elie Wiesel: Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, author, educator, and concentration camp survivor. Interestingly, he has not been a US citizen for very long (if at all, he may still be a French citizen, but he lives in Boston). He does not involve himself in domestic politics, being more of an international figure. By current definitions, Wiesel may be more of a "humanist" than a liberal.

Sadly, I could think of only one "American": Jimmy Carter. Like Wiesel, he is more of an international human rights figure these days. (There seems to be an unwritten rule about former Presidents staying involved in domestic politics). As far as character and morality goes, Carter has been our best president since the 19th century. Unfortunately, he was not a great president pecisely because he was no politician.

BattleRifleG3 · 08-28-2002, 12:47 AM

The word liberal now describes everything but the original meaning. If liberal means free thinking and open minded, then seeking the abridgement of personal freedoms of speech, arms, privacy, and the like in favor of forcing bizarre views on people are all the farthest things from it. What liberal used to mean now better describes libertarian. People hide behind the word liberal while they are ultimately afraid of the responsibility that comes with true freedom.

Klaus · 08-28-2002, 12:54 AM

I have met a few liberals who just seemed grossly ignorant and/or stupid.

7mmag6 · 08-28-2002, 01:03 AM

how about al sharpton, now there is a piece of work, the epitomy of liberalism, and a real idiot, charlton is my president (god bless him in this moment of crises, and his family, amen)

FEG · 08-28-2002, 05:24 AM

I do no want to seem like a %^&*, but what is the deal here? Are we looking to find some real discourse about the future of Federalism? Or are we just trying to demean someone else in order to feel good about ourselves?

There are some genuinely well-meaning classical liberals out there. What concerns me is that they are all over 50 years of age on average.

People in this nation need to build a consensus based on American ideals of freedom, individual rights, and the subordinate status of the State. Our government has consistently betrayed these ideals since Lincoln was assassinated. The average American did not appreciate the scope of the issues involved before the 60s. Well, 40 years later we need to stop pretending and deal with the real enemy: Fascism in its various forms, rather than each other.

Another problem: The US Constitution was not handed to the US people like Yahweh gave Moses the Ten Commandments. The US Constitutional Congress was a POLITICAL body. Thank God, the politicians of the 18th-19th centuries looked a generation ahead or so. Unfortunately, politicians today are considered long-term thinkers if they look beyond the next election. The current system CAN NOT handle the stresses imposed by modern society and modern mores (immorality would be more accurate). Why? The US system assumes a basic level of functional literacy and morality on the part of its people and representatives.

I think the system failed because the US people failed. No human-originated system (even our Constitution) is perfect. However, the rule of law disintegrated here not because of the inherent weakness of the rule of law, but because the US people decided to stop caring, reading, organizing, etc. We have allowed fascistic brutes to assume control over us.

I SAY: STOP THE DECLINE. WE ARE NOT A THIRD-WORLD "NO-WIN SITUATION." WE MUST RECLAIM OUR HERITAGE AS A FREE PEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT A WAGE SLAVE. WHETHER YOU WERE BORN HERE, SWAM HERE, OR FLED HERE, YOU ARE NOW AN AMERICAN. NOT A {FILL IN THE BLANK}-AMERICAN. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS TOGETHER. WE MUST ALL HANG TOGETHER, OR WE ALL SHALL CERTAINLY HANG SEPERATELY... (Benjamin Franklin)

The greatest tragedy of current society (whether one typifies it as "modern," "post-modern," etc.) is the tendency to view subdivision/specialization as sophistication. No caste system has been as effective as Western society in delineating the roles of its various components. For us it is not a matter of limited opportunity (as any cursory visit to the Western States will show) so much as a deliberate effort to limit/channel opportunity. The fact that the wealthiest country in the world continues to evolve along have/have not lines speaks volumes to our failure as the Christian Nation to the World.

Yes, atheists/agnostics may scoff, but you are fools for doing so. YOU may be an ultra-modern, ultra-sophisticated, ambi-sexual whatever, but the average rag-head sees you as a representative of the West, Christendom, etc. Too bad, but I guess you will probably support the average rag-head's right to blow people up, rather than admit that there is some sort of universally applicable moral standard (i.e. "don't kill innocent people in cold blood").

I AM AN AMERICAN. MY AMERICANISM HAS ROOM FOR ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT GOD GAVE THE HUMAN RACE THIS CONTINENT TO HIS PEOPLE TO REALIZE THE DREAM OF A FREE SOCIETY. I DON"T CARE WHO YOU ARE, WHO YOU WERE, OR WHO YOU MIGHT BECOME. I DON'T CARE IF YOU DO NOT SHARE MY MORAL CONVICTIONS, MY COLOR, MY FAITH, OR MY LANGUAGE. IF YOU DO NOT SHARE MY DREAM OF A TRULY FREE SOCIETY, GET THE %^&* OUT OF MY COUNTRY. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS: FREEDOM IS THE AMERICAN DREAM. AMERICANISM IS NOT A PHYSICAL QUALITY OR QUANTITY: IT IS AN IDEAL. DESPITE OUR PAST FAILURES, THE IDEAL OF WASHINGTON, JEFFERSON, LINCOLN, KING, AND OTHER MUST NOT DIE. TOO MANY AMERICANS HAVE DIED FOR THIS IDEAL FOR US TO SIMPLY ROLL OVER AN WHIMPER NOW!!!!!!

08-27-2002, 11:08 PM	#1
johno Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Lewis, WA Posts: 181	here's an easy one can anyone name for me just one liberal who is not a hypocrite, traitor or crimminal? i don't think there are any.

08-28-2002, 12:03 AM	#8
oneastrix Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 5,213	I like to follow the good reverend (notice the lack of capitilization) Jesse Jackson! __________________ There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.

08-28-2002, 12:26 AM	#9
FEG Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Behind the Iron Curtain Posts: 517	Seriously, my vote goes for Elie Wiesel: Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, author, educator, and concentration camp survivor. Interestingly, he has not been a US citizen for very long (if at all, he may still be a French citizen, but he lives in Boston). He does not involve himself in domestic politics, being more of an international figure. By current definitions, Wiesel may be more of a "humanist" than a liberal. Sadly, I could think of only one "American": Jimmy Carter. Like Wiesel, he is more of an international human rights figure these days. (There seems to be an unwritten rule about former Presidents staying involved in domestic politics). As far as character and morality goes, Carter has been our best president since the 19th century. Unfortunately, he was not a great president pecisely because he was no politician. __________________ WARNING: CZs MAY BE HABIT-FORMING (Consult a doctor if nursing or pregnant).

08-28-2002, 12:47 AM	#10
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,452 Images: 13	The word liberal now describes everything but the original meaning. If liberal means free thinking and open minded, then seeking the abridgement of personal freedoms of speech, arms, privacy, and the like in favor of forcing bizarre views on people are all the farthest things from it. What liberal used to mean now better describes libertarian. People hide behind the word liberal while they are ultimately afraid of the responsibility that comes with true freedom. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

08-28-2002, 12:54 AM	#11
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,382	I have met a few liberals who just seemed grossly ignorant and/or stupid. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

08-27-2002, 11:10 PM	#2
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,088	Well Bill Clinton is my personal hero..I belive that he spoke the truth from his hart and provideed this country with a storng moral role modle.

08-27-2002, 11:14 PM	#3
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 11	man!!! when you say easy??? you have a better chance of taking big foot out for a few beers!!!:nod:

08-27-2002, 11:17 PM	#4
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,905	Thomas Jefferson considered himself a liberal.

08-27-2002, 11:20 PM	#5
johno Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Lewis, WA Posts: 181	it is easy. it's not very hard to figure out that there are none.

08-27-2002, 11:24 PM	#7
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,905	Very true,johno.

08-28-2002, 01:03 AM	#12
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	how about al sharpton, now there is a piece of work, the epitomy of liberalism, and a real idiot, charlton is my president (god bless him in this moment of crises, and his family, amen) __________________ This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine

08-28-2002, 05:24 AM	#13
FEG Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Behind the Iron Curtain Posts: 517	I do no want to seem like a %^&, but what is the deal here? Are we looking to find some real discourse about the future of Federalism? Or are we just trying to demean someone else in order to feel good about ourselves? There are some genuinely well-meaning classical liberals out there. What concerns me is that they are all over 50 years of age on average. People in this nation need to build a consensus based on American ideals of freedom, individual rights, and the subordinate status of the State. Our government has consistently betrayed these ideals since Lincoln was assassinated. The average American did not appreciate the scope of the issues involved before the 60s. Well, 40 years later we need to stop pretending and deal with the real enemy: Fascism in its various forms, rather than each other. Another problem: The US Constitution was not handed to the US people like Yahweh gave Moses the Ten Commandments. The US Constitutional Congress was a POLITICAL body. Thank God, the politicians of the 18th-19th centuries looked a generation ahead or so. Unfortunately, politicians today are considered long-term thinkers if they look beyond the next election. The current system CAN NOT handle the stresses imposed by modern society and modern mores (immorality would be more accurate). Why? The US system assumes a basic level of functional literacy and morality on the part of its people and representatives. I think the system failed because the US people failed. No human-originated system (even our Constitution) is perfect. However, the rule of law disintegrated here not because of the inherent weakness of the rule of law, but because the US people decided to stop caring, reading, organizing, etc. We have allowed fascistic brutes to assume control over us. I SAY: STOP THE DECLINE. WE ARE NOT A THIRD-WORLD "NO-WIN SITUATION." WE MUST RECLAIM OUR HERITAGE AS A FREE PEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT A WAGE SLAVE. WHETHER YOU WERE BORN HERE, SWAM HERE, OR FLED HERE, YOU ARE NOW AN AMERICAN. NOT A {FILL IN THE BLANK}-AMERICAN. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS TOGETHER. WE MUST ALL HANG TOGETHER, OR WE ALL SHALL CERTAINLY HANG SEPERATELY... (Benjamin Franklin) The greatest tragedy of current society (whether one typifies it as "modern," "post-modern," etc.) is the tendency to view subdivision/specialization as sophistication. No caste system has been as effective as Western society in delineating the roles of its various components. For us it is not a matter of limited opportunity (as any cursory visit to the Western States will show) so much as a deliberate effort to limit/channel opportunity. The fact that the wealthiest country in the world continues to evolve along have/have not lines speaks volumes to our failure as the Christian Nation to the World. Yes, atheists/agnostics may scoff, but you are fools for doing so. YOU may be an ultra-modern, ultra-sophisticated, ambi-sexual whatever, but the average rag-head sees you as a representative of the West, Christendom, etc. Too bad, but I guess you will probably support the average rag-head's right to blow people up, rather than admit that there is some sort of universally applicable moral standard (i.e. "don't kill innocent people in cold blood"). I AM AN AMERICAN. MY AMERICANISM HAS ROOM FOR ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT GOD GAVE THE HUMAN RACE THIS CONTINENT TO HIS PEOPLE TO REALIZE THE DREAM OF A FREE SOCIETY. I DON"T CARE WHO YOU ARE, WHO YOU WERE, OR WHO YOU MIGHT BECOME. I DON'T CARE IF YOU DO NOT SHARE MY MORAL CONVICTIONS, MY COLOR, MY FAITH, OR MY LANGUAGE. IF YOU DO NOT SHARE MY DREAM OF A TRULY FREE SOCIETY, GET THE %^& OUT OF MY COUNTRY. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS: FREEDOM IS THE AMERICAN DREAM. AMERICANISM IS NOT A PHYSICAL QUALITY OR QUANTITY: IT IS AN IDEAL. DESPITE OUR PAST FAILURES, THE IDEAL OF WASHINGTON, JEFFERSON, LINCOLN, KING, AND OTHER MUST NOT DIE. TOO MANY AMERICANS HAVE DIED FOR THIS IDEAL FOR US TO SIMPLY ROLL OVER AN WHIMPER NOW!!!!!! __________________ WARNING: CZs MAY BE HABIT-FORMING (Consult a doctor if nursing or pregnant).