[JMcDonald]

If Ruger made a .22mag 10/22 that was just as reliabe as the regular 10/22 then Id probably get that instead.

[mwatson]

I think the 10-22 is a very good rifle and I personally would not want to get shot with a 22lr. We had a slaughter house for cattle and they would shoot the cattle between the eyes and it would drop them right there.
Mike

[JMcDonald]

Did a bit of research. Apparently the .32ACP (even average rounds) have no problem going through a car door. The .22LR rounds Id carry have about the same energy as the hottest .32ACP rounds. Thus, especially with less than half the frontal area, should have very little problem. In fact, before I read this, I looked at one of my car doors and the metal is very thin, and I felt Id have no problem getting a .22LR (even one of the closer-to-standard rounds) through it. Still, I see that it is about 20 gauge steel, so Ill buy some of that and make my own simulated door and see just how well it can penetrate. Ill also do some comparitive testing by shooting some medium (phone book, box of dirt, water jugs, etc) without the "protection" of a car door, and then do the same test with the simulated car door and see how much penetration differs.

[Recon 173]

One of the things that I learned many, many years ago is that ANY weapon can be made useful or effective depending on the tactics used by the shooter. Would I like to go into combat armed with a .22LR rifle? No, because I'm better with a medium bore sniper rifle and trained with one. BUT, if I had no other option, so be it. Give me a scoped Ruger 20-22, a few bricks of ammo and watch out. I'd sight that Ruger in for a distance of about 100 yards so it would be dead on accurate. Then when I had to shoot at a blue helmeted thug, I'd get close, wait for a shot that would allow me to hit him just above the ear and then I'd pop him. I'd hit at irregular intervals and at different times of the day and, if I could, I'd strip things of value, like guns and ammo, off of those that I shot for future use. I would also try to be selective in who I shot. When possible, I'd try to nail officers, snipers and automatic weapons people. Lone sentries would also be fair game for me. The key to using something like a Ruger 10-22 is how to use its accuracy to your advantage by placing your shots right on the spot that you need them to be, getting the timing right and by getting fairly close. Getting close is something that a lot of people would not be able to do.

[304REP!]

a savage mk II shot through a frozen turkey+9 layers of clothing at 250-300 yards, i think a .22 lr would be fine if u didnt go looking for combat and were smart.

[Mike Franklin]

Under absolute perfect conditions a .22 will be just fine. I'm not going to count on that being the case.

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by 304REP!

a savage mk II shot through a frozen turkey+9 layers of clothing at 250-300 yards, i think a .22 lr would be fine if u didnt go looking for combat and were smart.

Exactly.

It can more than do the job I expect to use it for. And Ive already stated that I plan to simply avoid others in almost any situation, rather than fight them. I definately don't plan on going through with any guerilla warfare against some military as outlined above. If I am clear enough that I can just run around their perimeters and snipe them one at a time, then I am plenty clear to just go around that group and go on my way.

[FS00008]

Well what about a .22 Mag? Could that have more effect than a .22LR and could it be suppressed?

[M14man]

Suppressing a 22 Mag would not be efficient since it is supersonic and would 'crack'. It would help some at the muzzle, and may help disguise the location of the shooter somewhat, but the shot would still be heard.

[billy]

Quote:       Originally Posted by 304REP!

a savage mk II shot through a frozen turkey+9 layers of clothing at 250-300 yards, i think a .22 lr would be fine if u didnt go looking for combat and were smart.

40gr LRN @ 1050fps with a .120BC zeroed @ 100 is 130.45" low @ 300. That translates into 10.87 feet of bullet drop!

and it went through NINE layers of clothing AND A FROZEN TURKEY?

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by billy

40gr LRN @ 1050fps with a .120BC zeroed @ 100 is 130.45" low @ 300. That translates into 10.87 feet of bullet drop! and it went through NINE layers of clothing AND A FROZEN TURKEY? im wondering if it would even go through a tee shirt and break bare skin at that range.

While the turkey wasn't frozen, the rest of the test is true. At 250 yards, the bullet went all the way through the turkey and clothing and was lost. At 300 yards, most of the rounds were found stuck under the rear skin (having penetrated only 3 layers and the full turkey). But, I guess if you don't believe it you should call out the tester on it. If you are not going to call them out on it, then your conjecture that it would not even break skin at that range is along the same lines that "a .22 is just going to make them mad.": Lethality of the 22LR- Results! - Sniper's Hide Forums

As far as 10' drop. That is not that hard to account for, especially with the equipment and techniques they were using.

FS00008, if you can find a reliable, reasonably inexpensive .22mag semi-auto, then let me know. I am definately not going to waste my time with any any lever- or bolt-action .22s. If I am going to get a gun like that it will fire a much larger round. As I stated, the only reason I will likely feel the need to be sniping a bunch of people would be if I was protecting a location. At that point, I wouldn't really care about noise (in fact, I might want them to hear it, for phychological reasons) or ammo carrying capacity and would be using something much more powerful and accurate.

[Mike Franklin]

Based on that 300 yards 'test' I guess I can throw out all my high powered rifles and hunt big game with my single shot Sears .22 rifle. Anything smaller than Elk I'll just hunt with my BB gun.

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mike Franklin

Based on that 300 yards 'test' I guess I can throw out all my high powered rifles and hunt big game with my single shot Sears .22 rifle. Anything smaller than Elk I'll just hunt with my BB gun.

*sigh* Don't be a smart ass. Nobody else is. As a hunter you must be aware of the difference between the leathery hide of large game and the eye-lid-thickness of of a bare turkey. Not to mention that a .22LR will not have nearly enough energy to cause hydrostatic shock within the animal, so any hit with a .22LR would have to be a direct hit to the heart or CNS to avoid a runaway.

But, maybe I spoke too soon about about the higher regard with which I held members of this community?

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance" - Einstein. Were I that tester, Id find it insulting that you people would just blatantly say that I am wrong (especially behind my back, as you are), based solely on your "beliefs."


But, as I have found no real argument against my original ideas, and this thread is well on its way to a pissing contest, I suppose I'll leave it at that.

Thanks to those who were constructive in this discussion. When I get the 10/22 Ill do some tests just to see what we have.

[KingMusa45]

my plan is to avoid at all cost, but if i have to fight i have to go with my ak. ive used it for years and its what im most comfortable with. i was taught that anything can be used to defend yourself but the best is what you are used to. if your 22 is your weapon of choise then use it to the best of your ablities and it will be affective. i plan for at least 3 adults and a babe so we are a little more versetile. i have my yugo & 45, my fiancee a 9 and keltec 9 carbine. right now im looking to get my best friend together and he's favoring the glock nine and still looking into a rifle but the 22 might be perfect.

[JMcDonald]

I am actually looking for a 9mm pistol right now. Decided Id rather my BUG have a bit more punch. The only reasons I don't go for a .45 even are that, first of all, I already have a few hundred rounds of 9mm left over (and they are much cheaper to replace), and that most 45s are much larger than 9mms, making concealment more difficult.

Still, however, Ill be going with .22lr rifle as a primary weapon.

And I agree to use what you are capable of being good with.

[samuel]

I am not going to verify or debunk this turkey tale.I am only going to tell a couple true tales about .22lr,s at long range.A boy in S.Carolina saw a crow sitting on a fence post 60yds away and laid down and shot at it.A farmer was out in his driveway 1650+feet away from the boy and was struck in the chest and killed by that shot.That comes out about 550yds.A friend of mine was painting his house that had cedar siding.He was at one end and heard three bullets hit the siding at the other end.There was a woods 300yds+ away and some boys in that woods shot at a squirrel that was in a tree.When my friend ran a nail in the bullet holes the nail went through the siding and into the outer walboard but not through it.A.22lr can do more than most people think,even at long range. sam.

[elmer fudd]

i think it would be good i have a friend that has a ruger i dont know what kind it was but you can get a 50 round clip for it and it is simi auto so if you needed to fight you could easily win unless they had an sks. so ya

[andrew cochran]

Probubly a 10-22.

[elmer fudd]

Quote:       Originally Posted by andrew cochran

Probubly a 10-22.

ya i knew that but i didnt know the model

[Jersey Jailer]

ALthough I made my remarks in an earlier post, I still like the 17 for your purpose. If you plan to suppres your weapon the the 22LR isbetter. Some of these guys that are talking sh*t about the 22 have probaly never been in a firefight and are talking through their collective A**es. I was assigned to a unit 30 some years ago whose primary weapon was a 22LR bolt action box magazine fed, supressed, rifle. Our function was inteligence gathering and were to evade and elude at all costs. but there were several other secondary weapons also. out of a five man team there was usually 2 m16s 2 SMGs the S&W 9mm being popular and a shotgun. everyone carried a 45 and there were a couple of suppressed High Standard 22 pistols.

Some of the other posts alluded to a bolt action rifle, dont discount a bolt action rifle totally. If you are looking for diversity in accys don't forget the Ruger 77.. uses same mags as the 10/22.

I hope we never have to worry about having a SHTF situation, but good luck to you if it does. My main function will be getting my family to North Jersey, New York state and then Penna. The last being primary objective in the first weeks of when the SHTF. Then off to West Virginia where my wife's family is from, if I last long enough with the medical problems that I have.