[ArkansasHunter]

If you have to go up against an LEO(s) or the US Army then your going to die if you use a 22 rimfire.
I a shtf situation I'll be wearing my bullet proff vest and prolly others will too.
Save the 22 for small game and frogs...A.H

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by samuel

I am not going to verify or debunk this turkey tale.I am only going to tell a couple true tales about .22lr,s at long range.A boy in S.Carolina saw a crow sitting on a fence post 60yds away and laid down and shot at it.A farmer was out in his driveway 1650+feet away from the boy and was struck in the chest and killed by that shot.That comes out about 550yds.A friend of mine was painting his house that had cedar siding.He was at one end and heard three bullets hit the siding at the other end.There was a woods 300yds+ away and some boys in that woods shot at a squirrel that was in a tree.When my friend ran a nail in the bullet holes the nail went through the siding and into the outer walboard but not through it.A.22lr can do more than most people think,even at long range. sam.

Thanks a bunch for that info. Very interesting!

And, part of me does want to keep a bolt-action rifle around. I say bolt-action because most things semi-auto will be a bit expesive in the calibers Id want (not to mention ammo to practice would be expensive). The biggest advantage of a bolt-action secondary weapon to carry around would be that, obviously, it would basically be the perfect match to my .22. Most of the situations we've discussed which would require lots of firepower (say, a road block with hostile enemies a few hundred yards ahead), could be handled with a bolt-action. Secondly, because of its single-shot nature, we wouldn't need to carry a bunch of ammo. Thirdly, being realistic, it would take much less money put into ammo to become proficient with it (vs 8 bucks per minute with 30rd mags in semi-auto).

Although, it is my GF who is the marksman, so Id have to find something mellow enough that she won't mind shooting it in the first place. Me using a sniper rifle would just alert them to my position, hah.

[Dickie d]

If I had to defend my turf, and at my age I'm not going to venture too far, my weapon of choice would be a 12 ga. I'd be filling my pants if I had to shoot at someone because they probably would be armed and my chances of hitting them would be a hell of a lot better with a scatter gun loaded with anything and it would really hurt. I am backed up with a Garand and a 25-06 bolt both of which I can kill with out to 400 yards if I'm able to place a shot. I would use my 22's if I was pressed on reload time on the big boys. I just think we'd be shaking a little and the 12 ga would compenasate for that.

[big shrek]

It is far better to be a quiet, sneaky bastich who lives than the Rambo who dies.

In reguards to the .22, bear in mind that the Russian's used .22 hunting rifles as their primary sniping weapon in WW2. Us folks in the US just have Texas Complex...bigger is better...and it ain't neccesarily true.

[Mike Franklin]

'In reguards to the .22, bear in mind that the Russian's used .22 hunting rifles as their primary sniping weapon in WW2'

What's your source material for that, I'd like to read about that.

[22-rimfire]

My urban SHTF firearm is a Glock 23. My woods SHTF is a 22 rifle. Other than that I shoot mostly revolvers.

[patrick70]

I have a .22 marlin 60,a nice little rifle.I'm a fan of a .22 also, but not for a SHTF situation.My First pick would be an AK or SKS,for power and reliability.Just because I pick one of those rifles does'nt mean I trying to be like RAMBO.I could still be stealth with either of them.I heard stories where people have shot would be attackers several times with a .22 and it did'nt even slow them down.Yeah,a .22 is nice to have around,but not as a primary weapon in a SHTF situation.Just my opinion.

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by patrick70

I heard stories where people have shot would be attackers several times with a .22 and it did'nt even slow them down.

There are extremes to ever subject. We've also all heard the stories of LEOs emptying full magazines into attackers without the BG going down.



Also, do note that many of these examples you hear about weak .22 rounds are much older than you think, when the average round was a ~36gr lead slug traveling at around 1000fps. Im talking about 40gr jacketed rounds traveling at 1400+FPS. Pretty big difference in energy, really (less than 90ft-lbs vs almost 190 ft-lbs).

And, that is your preference. Ive already stated the advantages of a .22lr, and the disadvantages of larger rifles, but if you don't share the same views then that is just fine. You survive your way and Ill survive my way.

[patrick70]

YEP!

[Beans]

Have you considered an AR with a .22 converison kit? It will let you shoot both .223 and .22LR?

You can use .22 shorts and or longs if you want to manually operate the action.

The converison kit weight about the same as 100 rds of .22 Ammo, and you can get 10 or 20 rd mags for you .22

100 Rds of .223 and 1000 rd .22 isn't that big of a load and will fit into most BOB's.

[ArkansasHunter]

What ever gun you have the confidents in then use it wether it be a .22 rim fire or a centerfire.
This Thread has got me to thinking about building a SHTF firearm and a .22 rim fire is a possibility.

Would anyone mine answearing a question I have ?
Can a SKS be rebarreled to shoot .223 ammo ? without problems ?

[iflylow74]

IMO, a combination of an accurate semi-auto rifle in .22lr and a quality 9mm or larger sidearm would be a pretty good combination. Most SHTF scenario's wont be similar to Red Dawn but more than likely a matter of being stealthy to get where to need to go with as little attention as possible. With the 22lr, you could carry a lot of ammo without a lot of weight. It could be used to take game quietly to avoid attention but could also be used as an offensive weapon. Most likely in a SHTF scenario, the enemy wont be highly armed soldiers but most likely looters, thugs, and the like. Chances are, a few shots from a 22lr would be enough to discourage them even if it only wounds a couple of them. If they keep coming then thats where the sidearm comes in to seal the deal. I would prefer a 9mm with +P ammo just because of the high cap mags.

[JMcDonald]

1) As far as converting an AR15 to shoot .22LR, that sounds like a very expensive venture. Id imagine $1000+ for the AR22 build, vs maybe $350 for a 10/22 with a couple high-cap mags and some accessories. Plus, from what Ive read an AR15 won't be any more reliable than a 10/22.

2) I am planning on getting a Taurus 24/7 Pro 9mm soon, which has a 17+1 capacity.

And, as I said, I wouldn't have too much of a problem keeping maybe 50-100 rounds of good 9mm ammo around for back-up purposes. However, to use it as a primary weapon would mean Id have to skimp on ammo quality in favor of volume. One more negative thing about using cheap ammo is that if I fell into water, the cheap 9mm ammo would be useless, whereas nice .22LR ammo should not have a problem (as it only has a seam around the bullet, which should be nicely snug on nicer ammo, and has no separate primer seam to leak).

[leomort]

Ah, see this post is having some come around to the .22lr rimfire rifle and 9mm handgun, eh? Mine's a lefthanded CZ 452 .22lr with McMillan synthetic stock and Leupie 3-9EFR. It shoots the Rem Subsonic hp pretty well at 25yards. Time to try them out at 50 yards. The 9mm in an HK 2000 w/ 13round clip due to this gun being southpaw friend. A 1911 .45ACP or .357mag revolver could also be considered but I'm thinking availability of ammo and weight tilt ever so slightly in the 9mm's favor. Figure handgun to be used for the "two legged" varmint kind not for hunting purposes.

Leo

[stitchclimber]

For the AR .22 conversion its about buying a new upper ($500?) so its a little cheaper than $1000.

[big shrek]

In the Criminal Justice courses I took in college, there was a film of a shooting where a large man came running out of his house with a butcher knife, was fired upon by multiple officers who had 9mm's, hit MANY times, but he kept heading for the officers until a headshot by a sniper took him out.

Rule number one, make headshots.

Rule number two, Make Headshots!

There are very few options for head armour...where sometimes it can be difficult to tell if someone has on body armour...so, two to the chest, one to the head...or the reverse if you can shoot worth a dang

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by stitchclimber

For the AR .22 conversion its about buying a new upper ($500?) so its a little cheaper than $1000.

But Id need an AR first .



Also, Ive been wondering what my GF should do. She is a great shot, so I actually wonder if she might do well with something like the beretta Neos .22 handgun as a primary weapon. I say that for several reasons:

1) Reviews show it is one of the more (most) reliable handguns.
2) It can be disassembled with no tools and little time (huge plus for a SHTF gun).
3) With the 7.5" barrel, accuracy and velocity should improve considerably over a smaller handgun (1200fps?).
4) It would be much lighter than a rifle, and much easier for her to carry around.
5) She is a 100lb, 5' Asian girl, and I don't yet know how she would do with the recoil of a 9mm (would rather not have to keep track of separate .380 rounds, they are more expensive than 9mm rounds, and anything less doesn't have much on the .22lR anyways). Not that she necessarily wouldn't like it, but I think she might have to concentrate to prevent limp-wristing, which means under stress or if shooting one-handed she might suffer FTEs and subsequent FTFs / jams.

At the same time, with her bring a great shot part of me wants to give her the nice 10/22 with a bull barrel / scope, so she can make those 150yd head shots, hehe. Plus, if she could handle it, Id obviously much rather her have a 9mm as a BUG just for that little extra hurtin' power. I guess realistically the best thing we can do is go try out a 9mm handgun and see how she does.

[leomort]

JM,

A thought for you to consider. How about a revolver for your girlfriend? Perhaps a j-frame .357mag shooting only 38specials, and +P loads for her? You could convert to midsize frame .357mag. revolver as well, carry 38special loads as well to consolidate ammo. Perhaps keeping a box of full mag loads just for your use. Don't have to worry about girlfriend limp wristed the pistol. Plus I found my wife also has difficulty racking the slide of a pistol due to lack of her hand strength. The lack of hand strength could be overcome with practice but she doesn't want to put the time. Pretty much puts my wife in the revolver category.

Leo

[JMcDonald]

The only thing about revolvers is the capacity and reloading. Going from an 17-shot 9mm to a 6-shot revolver would be quite a downgrade IMO. Hell, I think a 10-shot .22lr pistol (and I think she could cock a Neos without too much trouble) would be better in her hands than a 6-shot revolver.

[leomort]

Well, allow me toplay devil's advocate. You state your hypothesis as to avoid confrontation as much as possible so "down grading" to few # of rounds should not be a big issue. (Pyschologically the #'s game can be difficult to overcome). Also if you can't get yourself out of trouble with 6 rounds you likely got yourself in overhead and violated your hypothesis to avoid trouble.