... can anyone really give me good reasons why some in Govt. are denying the ability for the USA to be self sufficient with oil, coal and nuclear power... while empowering the Arabs?
Honestly... WTF ?
__________________ You don't scare me! Work on it!
Follow the money. It will lead back to someone, it always does. At least thats the answer that lets me sleep at night. Rather that then thinking the people in power are completely ignorant.
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to pass resolutions in favour of
vegetarianism" ~ R. W. Inge
Gee, I guess alls it would take is for all the Senators, Congressmen, President, VP, everyone in the Executive branch, all of our corporations and their executives to come clean on all the money they are receiving from these Arab countries to keep us hooked. Nah, that'll never happen so on and on it goes. Ain't bribery, graft, kickbacks, campaign contributions and speaking fees just wonderful?
Gee, I guess alls it would take is for all the Senators, Congressmen, President, VP, everyone in the Executive branch, all of our corporations and their executives to come clean on all the money they are receiving from these Arab countries to keep us hooked. Nah, that'll never happen so on and on it goes. Ain't bribery, graft, kickbacks, campaign contributions and speaking fees just wonderful?
... how about right vs. wrong and politicians who are committed to the survival and growth of this nation above their own personal monetary and career ambitions? Really... how much is enough?
Geezuz ... I need to run for office. Enough of this crap ...
I'd love to tell the Arabs they can drown in their oil, we don't shop there anymore...
__________________ You don't scare me! Work on it!
... can anyone really give me good reasons why some in Govt. are denying the ability for the USA to be self sufficient with oil, coal and nuclear power... while empowering the Arabs?
Honestly... WTF ?
It's more economically sound to import. Just like families are richer when they buy things at supermarkets than they are when they make everything themselves, countries are richer when they buy things from other countries for cheaper than it would be to get them ourselves. In fact, that's why the industrial revolution lead to such an increase in wealth. People no longer had to do EVERYTHING themselves. They could do one or two things really well and let other people do the other things really well, instead of having to do everything only mediocer-ly. Likewise, it's cheaper for the US to import many things. This lead to an increase of GOOD products, and these products were actually cheaper than the crappy products they replaced. The US has so many costly laws that any business has to follow. For oil, think of all the environmental acts, all the hearings they would have to go to, all the lawyers they would have to hire in case something seemed to have gone wrong (even if it didn't), all the taxes and forms they would have to think of, etc. Add to that the fact that we just don't drill for oil very much, which leads to inefficiency, and it becomes plain that it's just cheaper to import it than to do it ourselves. And, like with families, that's a good thing. We're getting better products for cheaper. (Now, obviously this isn't totally true with some things, but that's not due to importation. That's due to (with oil) the oulaw of competition, (with crops) huge government subsidies, and (with other things) other government regulations that keep the prices artificially high. But it's NOT aproblem of importation.)
The real problem isn't that we import. The problem is that we go to war with countries who have what we want instead of trading responsibly and respectfully with other sovereign nations. And then of course the other problem is all the regulations we have on free trade, but I talked about that earlier.
Blame it on The Greenie Lobbyists, and the Tree huggers, and Global Warming alarmists that seem to hammer the politicians into their way of thinking.
They do it with Money, and lots of it. If that doesnt work , they file lawsuits!
There is NO COMMON SENSE in WASHINGTON D.C. anymore.
The other side of the coin is that we are buying TONS of Crap from China, Now they are growing while we are declining, and they want and need Fuel, Oil, and Gas. Same way with India, The demand for oil has Increased Dramatically. Mention Nuclear power hereand OMG people Think you are insane because of the bad rap and a few accidents in the past....
It would not be so bad if Wages went up like the price of Fuel...Problem is they won't and never will.
It's funny that most poor people seem to vote for Democrats,and they are still Poor...
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Not to mention the fact that labor here is more expensive than anywhere else, plus any resources we have that we don't use will be there in the future when the resources elsewhere dry up.
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I child-proofed my house, but they still keep getting in!
Not to mention the fact that labor here is more expensive than anywhere else, plus any resources we have that we don't use will be there in the future when the resources elsewhere dry up.
Good points. Labour here is rediculously expensive, much more expensive than the natural price. It's harmful to employers, employees, and consumers, but one of the most important problems with it is that it discourages people from setting up businesses here, and makes the businesses they do set up produce goods for much more expensive than they otherwise would be.
Not to mention the fact that labor here is more expensive than anywhere else, plus any resources we have that we don't use will be there in the future when the resources elsewhere dry up.
... so, we should be reliant on other sources at higher costs when we need the costs lowered for our own survival?
So, we give up American jobs for cheaper labor? So, we give up saving the present for the future that might not be there if we don't survive the present?
I disagree. Hereandnow should be the plan...
__________________ You don't scare me! Work on it!
The cost of labor here (even at its high costs) still does not keep up with National Inflation of even the most basic goods such as food and fuel.
The problem with the current food prices is that congress made it law that gasoline must contain a higher percentage of ethanol. Therefore their is not enough corn to go around for everything. (corn is a key ingredient in just about all foods; read the back of the box).
... so, we should be reliant on other sources at higher costs when we need the costs lowered for our own survival?
Did you check out my post explaining the economic reason about why it's actually better for the country to import? We could be self-suficient if we wanted to, by why? We'll be richer if we're not.
Quote:
So, we give up American jobs for cheaper labor?
For the most part, when Americans lose jobs to outsourcing, they end up getting better jobs. People don't like quitting, even when they're in bad, low-paying, unskilled jobs. When those bad jobs get outsourced, they have to find new jobs. They usually end up finding better jobs because (let's face it) Americans are pretty darned skilled. They can do bigger and better things. Let the chinese do the grunt work. That will free up our citizens to do better things. They'll get payed more for it, too, if our contry is richer because we're not trying to be self-sufficient. Everybody ends up better when we outsource labour and import goods.
Did you check out my post explaining the economic reason about why it's actually better for the country to import? We could be self-suficient if we wanted to, by why? We'll be richer if we're not.
For the most part, when Americans lose jobs to outsourcing, they end up getting better jobs. People don't like quitting, even when they're in bad, low-paying, unskilled jobs. When those bad jobs get outsourced, they have to find new jobs. They usually end up finding better jobs because (let's face it) Americans are pretty darned skilled. They can do bigger and better things. Let the chinese do the grunt work. That will free up our citizens to do better things. They'll get payed more for it, too, if our country is richer because we're not trying to be self-sufficient. Everybody ends up better when we outsource labour and import goods.
... ask the folks in Janesville who are losing their jobs...
Are you in favor of outsourcing jobs?
__________________ You don't scare me! Work on it!
... how about right vs. wrong and politicians who are committed to the survival and growth of this nation above their own personal monetary and career ambitions? Really... how much is enough?
Geezuz ... I need to run for office. Enough of this crap ...
I'd love to tell the Arabs they can drown in their oil, we don't shop there anymore...
+1
The problem is finding the politicians who are really committed to the survival and growth of our nation. We are now giving tax breaks to company's who move our jobs to China. When was the last time you brought a TV or a telephone that was made in the U.S.A.? Or when was the last time your wife or girlfriend brought a dress that was made in the U.S.A.? Giving up our jobs certainly isn't the answer, if the people in the U.S. who are loosing their jobs now are finding better jobs, why is the unemployment rate rising?
As far as the oil problem we now have. We could have became self sufficient a long time ago if certain members in congress would have let us drill for oil in Alaska and other places. Now the same members in congress are against nuclear energy as well.
We should had seen the problem that we now have with oil back in the 70's when the Arabs caused the oil embargo.
Now we have companies and special interest groups in control of our politicians in government and we can't really get anything accomplished. At least not yet.
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Did you check out my post explaining the economic reason about why it's actually better for the country to import? We could be self-suficient if we wanted to, by why? We'll be richer if we're not.
For the most part, when Americans lose jobs to outsourcing, they end up getting better jobs. People don't like quitting, even when they're in bad, low-paying, unskilled jobs. When those bad jobs get outsourced, they have to find new jobs. They usually end up finding better jobs because (let's face it) Americans are pretty darned skilled. They can do bigger and better things. Let the chinese do the grunt work. That will free up our citizens to do better things. They'll get payed more for it, too, if our contry is richer because we're not trying to be self-sufficient. Everybody ends up better when we outsource labour and import goods.
Only if the said persons are EDUCATED. That's why here locally, Delphi Packard Electric wants the general assembly line workers at 8.00/hr and tradesman at 14/hr. (don't know the exact numbers but close). As product making cost rise, they have to cut somewhere and that tends to be the low man on the totem pole's pocketbook and benefits.
Well, it is sad yet simple.
We have had no real sense of national purpose since WW2.
It is always a hodgepodge of ideas, proposals, media hype,
and so on and on and on.
Meanwhile, France has quietly worked out the problems of nuclear
power and has enjoyed ever increasing electrical power generation
in safety for decades. You do not see France advising other nations
to, for instance, dam up their rivers so salmon cannot breed.
Iceland and Greenland have quietly worked out tapping volcanic power
for heat and steam generation so you do not see them adding to the problem of world wide acid rain by burning vast quantities of coal.
England has quietly seemed to have made a breakthrough in using
ocean wave action to generate electricity.
The big common denominator is a matter of setting a national goal
and getting it done as opposed to a nation, America for example,
running from one half developed plan to the next with no real accomplishment.
What should we do? Well, contracting with France to build nuclear power plants in America would be a good start - if any of our politicians can
think at this level of complexity.
I'd rather have "crappy" products and be isolationist than to be "richer" as you so eloquently put it. All the people around where I used to live losing their jobs because the Mills and Factories closed...
Screw globalization. I think that if Companies want to outsource, they should be... I don't know about required, but encouraged to pay for their "former" employees to get an education or another equivalent job. It's ridiculous. It may be cheaper to "outsource" for the companies, but who the hell is going to buy that crap if no one can afford it?
... ask the folks in Janesville who are losing their jobs...
Ask them now, and they'll be sad. Ask them in a year and a good portion of them will say it was the best thing that's happened to them in a while.
Quote:
Are you in favor of outsourcing jobs?
Yes. If other people can do it more efficiently and for cheaper, it's better for us. Here's why:
When jobs are kept in America, the employers have to pay minimum wage. Minimum wage is harmful to everybody.
1. It means that employers have to hire fewer people. Minimum wage is better for the people who already have a job (they get a raise even though their job didn't get harder or anything!), but it keeps even more people from having a job. No job is worse than a low-paying job, and minimum wage means that more people have fewer jobs.
2. Minimum wages mean that employers have to pay the employees more than their job is worth, and that employees get payed more than they think their job is worth. I would work as a Wal-Mart greeter for three buck an hour if I could, because it's a really low-skilled job. But employers have to pay Wal-Mart greeters as much as $7.95 in some states. Their job (standing at a door and just saying hi to people) just isn't worth $7.95 an hour, either to the employer or to the employee.
3. Employers, having to pay their employees more money, have to raise the price of the goods they sell. That means that things are more expensive, because of minimum wage. Even though people are being payed more, their money doesn't go as far. It's almost like we're NOT being payed more, except for the fact that minimum wage laws hurt the unemployed. Because of minimum wage laws, our products are MORE EXPENSIVE, and our dollar doesn't go nearly as far.
There are other things in America that make products more expensive when the jobs are done here. Businesses have to pay for lawyers in case some parasitic "consumer advocate" lawyer decides to sue them. Since our legal system has no punishment for people who bring false claims against businesses, it's the person getting sued who always loses, whether they did anything wrong or not. Income taxes and business taxes make running a business very costly. Complying with various statutes is also extremely costly.
By not outsourcing unskilled labour, our market is unnecessarily inflated because of these various laws. Thus, products cost more than their natural price (see Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations for a claer explanation of a good's "natural price"). That means that we have to spend more than we naturally would for every Made In The USA product we buy. We are relatively poorer because of it, since our dollar buys less. We may have more dollars, but it doesn't matter if things are so expensive.
Now, by outsourcing low-skilled jobs to other communties, it does good things for American AND for those countries. It's a win-win situation. It helps America by:
1. Making goods cheaper. Instead of having to pay a couple thousand dollars for a television, we can get them for much cheaper imported from Japan. Instead of paying a hundred dollars for a pair of jeans, we can buy them for ten or twenty dollars from Bangladesh. our money can buy more things.
2. People who lose their jobs to outsourcing are almost invariably better off. The media, in its ignorance, only looks at the immediate result of outsourcing - people are mad because they lose their jobs. That's what people like you hear about, and it seems reasonable to be mad at stuff like that. But what you don't see, because the media rarely reports it, is the jobs that are opened up to these people. Now, let's say that stell is outsourced. (Obviously that won't happen because of all the restrictions and unions in the steel industry, but that was the first thing I thought up.) So, steel workers lose their jobs. But, because stell is outsourced, it's not available to companies that use steel at a much cheaper price. One company that uses steel is auto manufacturers. Because this auto manufacturer is able to buy steel at a cheaper price, he can make more cars, and sell them for less money. Because he's making more cars, he needs to hire workers. But where will he find these works? The newly laid-off steel workers, of course. And since he's buying steel for cheaper, he can pay his employees more money for their work, give them better benefits, etc. So not only are people getting better jobs, but consumres are getting cheaper cars. More money AND cheaper products makes people richer.
It's also better for the other countries. It brings the industrial revolution to them. Instead of EVERYBODY working on farms, some people in those countries can now leave their farms and get an industrial job, earning better money and improving the economy of that country.
So, outsourcing improves the economy of our country, and improves the economy of other countries. In essence, the entire global economy is strengthened, and everybody gets richer.
Now, why is it that you don't like outsourcing? Is it because you rely on what the media tells you is going on, even it's well known that scare-media sells a lot better than news that says "everything is getting better!", instead of what is actually happening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FS00008
Aqualung.
I'd rather have "crappy" products and be isolationist than to be "richer" as you so eloquently put it. All the people around where I used to live losing their jobs because the Mills and Factories closed...
Really? Wow. I've never heard anybody hear they'd rather struggle to survive instead of helping everybody around the world have an easier life. I guess that's your prerogative, though. You can think what you want, believe what you want - just realise that the entirety of economics disagrees with you on this point.
Last edited by Aqualung; 06-06-2008 at 04:38 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Can anyone really give a good example why ? 
