Ethanol?

[Rave]

The state of Florida just got finished with paying U.S.Suger $1.75 billion for 187,000 acres of everglades that yeilded 700,000 tons of suger last years to preserve the everglades.

[jimkim]

Just wondering why don't we buy ethanol from Brazil it is cheaper than oil and it is already ethanol and the money wont go to Arabs and reds that want to kill us? Win win win?

[nathangdad]

in America due to corn prices and corn taken out of the human and animal food chain.

In Brazil it is economically justified due to cane production and you might be interested to know they are in the process of converting all taxis to ethanol to reduce air pollution in major cities.

So, importation might just be a good idea.

[GlockMeister]

We need to QUIT buying as much as possible and getting our own sources for both ethanol and oil in our own country and QUIT flipping relying on all these other countries for our oil/ethanol or whatever.

Was watching the news today. Said oil was $134.00 a barrel. We've buy how ever much they said from Russia and we've bought a lot in the past years and give them a lot of money. So much that they've been able to invest in their military and buy new bombers, fighter jets, new missiles etc., etc.,etc.. And who knows what else we've enabled them to buy or build up. They might be our allie at the moment, but I guarantee you this, the moment we look weak, they'll strike as fast as any one else if not faster. You know the old saying, kick them when they're down. Or attack them when they're at their weakest.

We gotta get our own sources going and QUIT relying on other countries dog gone it and we got to do it A.S.A.P!!!

[GlockMeister]

Originally Posted by nathangdad

in America due to corn prices and corn taken out of the human and animal food chain.

In Brazil it is economically justified due to cane production and you might be interested to know they are in the process of converting all taxis to ethanol to reduce air pollution in major cities.

So, importation might just be a good idea.

Maybe so, but farmers here are growing it because for them it's more profitable then growing it for food. If they don't grow it for that they grow it for feed as feed for pigs and other animals is still more profitable then growing it for human consumption.

Again, we need to take care of our own with our own and quit relying on others. If we don;t it will be one of the reasons for the downfall of this country!!!


Just noticed this on yahoo news at my email home page. Looks as if our Government isn't concerned about seeing we don't get screwed anymore then we already are. Them pricks!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/...gress_gasoline

[jimkim]

So your saying throwing away money is a good idea. Paying more for the same end product is good. At the same time the cattle, chicken and pig farmer go belly up from the high feed corn prices. Then instead of buying all of Brazil's surplus ethanol we still give that money to Arabs. How is that good? Don't the farmers have to buy corn based products too? If paying more for a product eats up all of your profit then where is the logic in that? And on top of the higher prices for food we still have higher gas prices.

[GlockMeister]

If you mean me JimKim, I say do whatever we can, need to or have to, to become self sufficient,so we can QUIT giving money to and relying on other countries. Will it be cheap for us to do, no. Will it take us a while, yes. It's either that or gas gets up to $5,$6,$7,$8,$9, or even $10 bucks a gallon and no one can or should complain about it then. Not if we had a chance to do something about it and didn't. No one to blame for all this except our selves. Right now, the dam speculators are killing us. They're intentionally driving the price of oil up, and they could care less. It's making them money and a lot of it. Also, not doing something means continuing to make other countries richer then they already are and able to surpass us in many areas. Also, what do we do or what will happen if and/or when the dollar becomes so worthless, which it already almost is, that no one will no longer even take it as a currency?

WE HAVE TO SPEND THE MONEY NOW. Had we done it years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess.

They need to stop blocking us and let us drill where there's oil. They put the polar bear on the threatened list, just to stop/block us from drilling there. The problem is, it only stops us, not Russia. You think Russia gives a crap about the polar bear? So if Russia or someone else is just going to go ahead and someday drill in these places, why the hell shouldn't we do it, do it now and start becoming self sufficient???

Farmers are already going under for many reasons. I'm not saying I have all or any of the answers. I just know I'm sick of seeing us GIVE billions of dollars to other countries, enabling them to become more powerful then us in every way. This countries industry, what there is left of it, isn't enough to sustain this country anymore. We need to rebuild our industry. We need to start somewhere. And yes, it will cost a lot of money to get going. But the long run is what needs to be considered and what we need to be aiming for.

I heard today, for the first time in 35 years I think they said, GM shares of stock are selling for what they were that many years ago, $12 bucks a share. The company is worth a mere 8 billion, where as Toyota is worth 115 billion I think they said.

[ArkansasHunter]

I saw on a news Show today why the Democrates don't want off shore drilling .

It's because the Oil companys already have the lease's on millions of acre's of Federal land.

So why allow off shore drilling when there sitting on lease's already, for millions of acre's of easier to access land ?

Makes sense to me if it's true.
Sorry i mis spelled acre's...A.H

[GlockMeister]

None of them who should care do care, that's the problem. None of them that can do anything will do anything, another one of the problems. They all can afford it even if it were to get up to $15 a gallon. It's us, the little man/woman that will suffer, not them. As long as it stays or keeps going up, and we keep paying it, it won't change. We need to stop driving as soon and as much as possible. Lower the demand so much they'll have no choice but to lower the prices. We have to do something...

[TACAV]

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

We need to QUIT buying as much as possible and getting our own sources for both ethanol and oil in our own country and QUIT flipping relying on all these other countries for our oil/ethanol or whatever.

Was watching the news today. Said oil was $134.00 a barrel. We've buy how ever much they said from Russia and we've bought a lot in the past years and give them a lot of money. So much that they've been able to invest in their military and buy new bombers, fighter jets, new missiles etc., etc.,etc.. And who knows what else we've enabled them to buy or build up. They might be our allie at the moment, but I guarantee you this, the moment we look weak, they'll strike as fast as any one else if not faster. You know the old saying, kick them when they're down. Or attack them when they're at their weakest.

We gotta get our own sources going and QUIT relying on other countries dog gone it and we got to do it A.S.A.P!!!

whoa whoa whoa! that would just make waaaaay too much sense!

[GlockMeister]

I know, just blows ones mind don't it? lmao

[Mooseman684]

Ethanol cost about 10 Dollars a gallon to produce...Then the govt slaps a 20 dollar tax on it... so a Gallon of Ethanol is 30.00 wholesale....
What is wrong with this picture ????

[jimkim]

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

If you mean me JimKim, I say do whatever we can, need to or have to, to become self sufficient,so we can QUIT giving money to and relying on other countries. Will it be cheap for us to do, no. Will it take us a while, yes. It's either that or gas gets up to $5,$6,$7,$8,$9, or even $10 bucks a gallon and no one can or should complain about it then. Not if we had a chance to do something about it and didn't. No one to blame for all this except our selves. Right now, the dam speculators are killing us. They're intentionally driving the price of oil up, and they could care less. It's making them money and a lot of it. Also, not doing something means continuing to make other countries richer then they already are and able to surpass us in many areas. Also, what do we do or what will happen if and/or when the dollar becomes so worthless, which it already almost is, that no one will no longer even take it as a currency?

WE HAVE TO SPEND THE MONEY NOW. Had we done it years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess.

They need to stop blocking us and let us drill where there's oil. They put the polar bear on the threatened list, just to stop/block us from drilling there. The problem is, it only stops us, not Russia. You think Russia gives a crap about the polar bear? So if Russia or someone else is just going to go ahead and someday drill in these places, why the hell shouldn't we do it, do it now and start becoming self sufficient???

Farmers are already going under for many reasons. I'm not saying I have all or any of the answers. I just know I'm sick of seeing us GIVE billions of dollars to other countries, enabling them to become more powerful then us in every way. This countries industry, what there is left of it, isn't enough to sustain this country anymore. We need to rebuild our industry. We need to start somewhere. And yes, it will cost a lot of money to get going. But the long run is what needs to be considered and what we need to be aiming for.

I heard today, for the first time in 35 years I think they said, GM shares of stock are selling for what they were that many years ago, $12 bucks a share. The company is worth a mere 8 billion, where as Toyota is worth 115 billion I think they said.

Where did I even suggest not doing anything? I agree with you on drilling. I want us to drill. I am totally confused at how this response could possibly come from me saying, in essence, the corn to ethanol program is a bust. It cost us more than it is producing. It is bad business. Any business that has to be propped up by the govt. should be allowed to wither and die. Allow the free market to find the cure for the problem. I don't see why we aren't allowed to use methanol, methane, coal to oil, solar power, nuclear power, and ethanol from whatever will ferment. Instead we have tariffs and regulations that tie our hands. I never said don't drill. Do it ALL just quit throwing away money on things that don't work. If you have to give a dollar to someone, and you dont have a choice who do you give it to a friend or an enemy?

[Wingwiper]

I agree! we need to do it ourselves.

We bitch about how much Tropical Jungle and forest is falling each year, but for the sake of our pocketbooks, we are ready to clear millions of more acres so they can grow enough and be able to export to Us..

Conserving would be a good start and if we could drop our consumption by 20% by just CONSERVING we have taken a BIG step, we did it in the 70s and we can do it again. Then we can llok at ourselves for Oil production and that Crap Ethanol.

As far as the millions of acres of area the oil companies have currently, they are all beyond 200 miles. 200 miles is more feasible than 50???? Come on, THINK ABOUT IT, what does one have to deal with at 200 miles that may not have to be dealt with at 50?? I am sure if they stay closer to the shelf it will be less hazardous drilling, less chance of damage during HIGH Seas and quicker and easier access, but that is JUST my opinion and I don't happen to be a Democrat.

so how many people here have actually made an adjustment to use less fuel or conserve and not because of PRICE? How many added a wood stove to cut back on the furnace use? How many have car pooled or traded that hog for a sipper? How many are re cycling? How many are cutting their usage of plastics? how many have more lights on than needed? So why are you waiting for someone else to do it?

[jimkim]

It cost around ten thousand dollars. Micro Fueler Is First Ethanol Kit for Brewing Backyard Biofuels on the Cheap - Popular Mechanics
check here too. They have the permit to make your own. Thank you guys from the survival forum. Almost Free Ethanol | Make your own ethanol | Making ethanol | ethanol | ethanol production | how to make ethanol Now mine is in the mail.

[DWFan]

Something you may need to remember and you may have heard Hillary Clinton say it herself. Government officials don't buy motor fuels with their own money. They pay for it with taxpayer dollars so they couldn't care less how high the price goes. They are in no way motivated to reduce fuel prices unless it threatens their ability to be elected.

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by DWFan

Something you may need to remember and you may have heard Hillary Clinton say it herself. Government officials don't buy motor fuels with their own money. They pay for it with taxpayer dollars so they couldn't care less how high the price goes. They are in no way motivated to reduce fuel prices unless it threatens their ability to be elected.

Govt ONLY buys fuel for the Srategic Oil Reserve, OIl is a commodity and SOLD to the HIGHEST BIDDER. Our Govt can not tell Chavez or any other idiot world leader at what price they will sell.

As far as promoting alternate fuel sources, the need should breed.

They can OPEN Coastal Waters, Open ANWR and promote AT HOME exploration, production and distribution, thru TAX BREAKS etc.

Each State should offer a REWARD for a the BEST ALTERNATE FUEL SOLUTION, that works and is ready for PRODUCTION and not some kAKAMANIA idea.

A Quick Solution is we all BUY Horsies and then process the manure and make METHANE. Instead of just spreading MANURe on the fields, let it bake in a container and capture the METHANE, then spread it. With some adapting we may be able to heat some homes or even furnish fuel for farm equipment. Just a WISE ASS remark that has some substance.

[killer]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Ethanol cost about 10 Dollars a gallon to produce...Then the govt slaps a 20 dollar tax on it... so a Gallon of Ethanol is 30.00 wholesale....
What is wrong with this picture ????

Indeed!!!!!

My truck will burn ethanol but it only gets 11 MPG. The crap pollutes 54% more than gasoline Does Gas Pollute Less than Ethanol?

Corn ethanol is NOT the the answer...and if fact is causing world hunger. I've read varying reports the amount of corn needed to convert to Ethanol for one fill up for an SUV would be equal to what a person eats in corn in one year. What a waste. Sugar is indeed much better to use but...Govt has bought into corn ethanol, special interests are spinning their lies, and because of corn ethanol we will only see worst prices on our grocery bill.

Another typical Govt. promoted boone doggle that they will not let die. Oh it's great busiiness for my company (see avatar) and I'm making tons of overtime with it but we need to say no to corn ethanol.

[Windwalker]

+1 on the Government Officials being no way motivated to reduce fuel prices unless it threatens their ability to be reelected. Lets vote some of them out and maybe some of those left will get the message.

[jimkim]

^+1 Keep those trains rolling. Thank God for the railroads. Can you imagine what prices would be like if we had to ship everything by truck. No offense meant to the drivers. To really take advantage of ethanol I think we would have to totally re-tune our engines and raise the compression ratio if I'm not mistaken.