[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT

More like an overestimation of your gun.

I have not "estmated" anything. The only performance I expect from my gun is what has been supported by fact after fact, as I have posted over and over again. Refusing to acknowledge those facts only shows the same level of ignorance that causes all the other problems within human civilization.

[TexasT]

Quote:       Originally Posted by JMcDonald

I have not "estmated" anything. The only performance I expect from my gun is what has been supported by fact after fact, as I have posted over and over again. Refusing to acknowledge those facts only shows the same level of ignorance that causes all the other problems within human civilization.

Actually, trying to impose ones own beliefs on others causes all the other problems within human civilization.

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT

Actually, trying to impose ones own beliefs on others causes all the other problems within human civilization.

Imposing one's beliefs on others would be a very major symptom of being ignorant to the fact that people will believe what they want and ESPECIALLY what they have a reason to believe. You ever seen the movie Signs? Perfect example of this.

And if that was a refererence to this thread, then you are exactly right. I have posted a new idea and asked for people to accept to deny its validity (with justification to back that denial). It has actually been my opposition who has persecuted me for not thinking the same way they do. Just like people always do. I guarantee if you go into a strong, old-school church and start giving reasons why religion is not good, you will end up getting cursed and run out of there. The same thing has happened to me here. I come in with new, justifyable ideas that go against common beliefs (that the .22lr is little more than a toy), and because the masses couldn't prove them wrong, they join together and try to "run me out" (which, on the internet is essentially done by defamation) because they don't like that I don't think like them, and especially that those ideas make enough sense to make others not think like them.





But, this is the point in every strong debate where one side turns to philosophical arguements in an attempt to discredit their opposition.



I think way outside the box. Thus, Ive done this whole thing before. It always starts with me presenting new ideas that most did not believe or previously understand. Some argue, and I either cede to their points if more valid than mine, or debunk them. Others accept it as a new neat idea that they will take in, but with a grain of salt (as all new ideas should be taken). Others, desparate in the fact that they might have been wrong, or worse, that others might begin to think more like me, begin with first personal attacks (your car is ugly.... you are a girl...), often in attempts to get me to bicker back so they can discredit me as an immature child. After I avoid this bait, they then turn to philosophical arguments to try to show how I am not a good person, how I don't support America, or whatever they can come up with to try to discredit me. From there the threads are typically locked.

I am sure you are now thinking that I am indeed a troll and only want to make people look bad or whatever. In fact, it is almost entirely the opposite. Plainly put, I want to educate or be educated. Period. If you couldn't tell from previous posts of mine, I believe education (i.e. to defeat ignorance) is the number one solution to all of our societal problems. Not all education is going to solve major problems, but all education helps, even if it does nothing more than give people a glimpse of what openin their minds and learning new ideas can be like.

[TexasT]

So, after 8 pages of people saying .22s are good for killing rabbits, but they would rather protect their life with a bigger caliber, you think they're going to give up all their cannons and go buy a .22 because it can do the job if you are in ideal SHTF situation....riiiight. I did have a long post typed out to respond, but I'm just going to quote one of the other members from an earlier post.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Seven©

Jesus... Ya'll never convince JM it isn't "viable." JM will never convince ya'll it is. Let it go. Move on. Damn.

[knightRider]

hahahahahaha this bs is still going on . wha hahaha this guy is incredible ! hahaha

[squirrelblaster]

i still like turtles......

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT

So, after 8 pages of people saying .22s are good for killing rabbits, but they would rather protect their life with a bigger caliber, you think they're going to give up all their cannons

Did you read anything I just said?

Quote:       Originally Posted by JMcDonald

I didnt demand that everyone agree, I only asked that people open their minds and acknowledge the validity of my arguments, instead of simply tell me I am stupid. I understand that many people might feel comfortable with larger caliber weapons.

Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT

...a .22 because it can do the job if you are in ideal SHTF situation.

Again, you are now ignoring half of the things I say just to try to put together an argument for yourself.

First, a true SHTF situation is when things AREN'T going as you planned for. If some expects that because they can stand still and hit a paper target at 30 yards, with no stresses, in a quiet, well-lit room, they are instantly ready to go into combat, then they are foolish. I have already covered all the things I practice daily with my .22, and I won't repeat anything else except that I guarantee the quality practice makes me a more effective fighter than 95% of civilians.

Let me ask you this. If you came around a corner and there were three threats at, say 50 yards, how long would it take your average AR owner to hit all three of them? I bet I could hit all three of them before most civilians could hit one. For example, my GF can shoot very accurately at targets (hell, her first time ever shooting she shot a 3" 10-shot group with iron sights at 20 yards with another 10/22), but as soon as you introduce some stresses, like telling her she has three or five seconds to hit the target, and count aloud, then her accuracy deteriorates significantly. She has improved from our practicing, but you can still tell the different. I, on the other hand, can stand thirty yards away and consistantly hit a ~1.5"x3" square, off-hand, starting a 5-second mental countdown with the muzzle down and having fired before I reach zero as I shoulder and fire (and some times I add crouching while shouldering to this). That is like a torso at 200 yards (And yes I even have to use a little bit of holdover with the slow powderless ammo I use).

My point is that Id expect almost anyone who only "shoots" guns (rather than practices toward making it an extension of themselves) to react the same way under stress as my girlfriend did when we first started these exercises (and still does to a degree). The entire point of this particular argument (about practicing) is based solely on the fact that the only gun I could get regular, quality practice in with is my 10/22. And, of course, I have shown plenty of support for why practice using whatever tool you have that you know to be adequate is just as important as, if not more important than, simply owning the most powerful tool.

Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT

I did have a long post typed out to respond, but I'm just going to quote one of the other members from an earlier post.

Giving up already? Didn't you have something to prove why I am just stupid and have ridiculous viewpoints?


But, Im going to go shoot some more so you guys, especially knightrider, have fun talking trash over the internet.

Again, I apologize for overestimating some of our members' capacities to understand and maturely react to new ideas. And, again, thank you to the rest of you who expressed your opinions in a respectable, non-condescending manner.

[Mike Franklin]

I'm getting a Rd Rider BB Gun. I can carry thousands of rounds and it's quite!

[knightRider]

i am so glad you dislike me . i hope you won't send me a friendship request . hahahahahhaha

[knightRider]

ohh and your the 22. guy ! hahaha whaa haha

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by JMcDonald

Did you read anything I just said? Again, you are now ignoring half of the things I say just to try to put together an argument for yourself. First, a true SHTF situation is when things AREN'T going as you planned for. If some expects that because they can stand still and hit a paper target at 30 yards, with no stresses, in a quiet, well-lit room, they are instantly ready to go into combat, then they are foolish. I have already covered all the things I practice daily with my .22, and I won't repeat anything else except that I guarantee the quality practice makes me a more effective fighter than 95% of civilians. Let me ask you this. If you came around a corner and there were three threats at, say 50 yards, how long would it take your average AR owner to hit all three of them? I bet I could hit all three of them before most civilians could hit one. For example, my GF can shoot very accurately at targets (hell, her first time ever shooting she shot a 3" 10-shot group with iron sights at 20 yards with another 10/22), but as soon as you introduce some stresses, like telling her she has three or five seconds to hit the target, and count aloud, then her accuracy deteriorates significantly. She has improved from our practicing, but you can still tell the different. I, on the other hand, can stand thirty yards away and consistantly hit a ~1.5"x3" square, off-hand, starting a 5-second mental countdown with the muzzle down and having fired before I reach zero as I shoulder and fire (and some times I add crouching while shouldering to this). That is like a torso at 200 yards (And yes I even have to use a little bit of holdover with the slow powderless ammo I use). My point is that Id expect almost anyone who only "shoots" guns (rather than practices toward making it an extension of themselves) to react the same way under stress as my girlfriend did when we first started these exercises (and still does to a degree). The entire point of this particular argument (about practicing) is based solely on the fact that the only gun I could get regular, quality practice in with is my 10/22. And, of course, I have shown plenty of support for why practice using whatever tool you have that you know to be adequate is just as important as, if not more important than, simply owning the most powerful tool. Giving up already? Didn't you have something to prove why I am just stupid and have ridiculous viewpoints? But, Im going to go shoot some more so you guys, especially knightrider, have fun talking trash over the internet. Again, I apologize for overestimating some of our members' capacities to understand and maturely react to new ideas. And, again, thank you to the rest of you who expressed your opinions in a respectable, non-condescending manner.

My God is this still going!

Quote:      

Let me ask you this. If you came around a corner and there were three threats at, say 50 yards, how long would it take your average AR owner to hit all three of them? I bet I could hit all three of them before most civilians could hit one.

Never mind your average AR owner; how about your average FAL owner (not that I'm calling Knightrider "Average"), or 1911 owner? The big difference is you'd probably only need to hit them once! I could loose off my 1911, CZ, AR or L1AI as fast as I could loose off my 10/22! And still hit the targets.

As for your timed shooting, great, lots of people practise that sort of thing; "Practical" Rifle & pistol shooters do it all the time. Though I don't know any who use the .22. If you trawl through the CAS section you'll see my results with a Lever action 94, at 50m, target exposure 3 seconds and away 5 seconds, standing at the "alert" position, rifle at 45 degrees.
I, on the other hand, can stand thirty yards away and consistantly hit a ~1.5"x3" square, ........................................DUH!


That's a new one on me! Is that two 1.5" squares placed together?

YUP, with a CZ75, Colt 1911 (albeit a Gold Cup), AR, FAL, M1A1, L2A3, L4, L7, Thompson 1928A1 and countless others and know that 1.5 x 3" square was not getting up again !

Oh, and Knightrider, You are a Devil!

[squirrelblaster]

im convinced that this guy just likes to argue, and that he in noway acualy beleaves his 22 will save him. i think is all a big joke.
p.s thats a very nice selection of guns you have there wunhunglo

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by squirrelbaster

im convinced that this guy just likes to argue, and that he in noway acualy beleaves his 22 will save him. i think is all a big joke. p.s thats a very nice selection of guns you have there wunhunglo

Unfortunately I don't have that sort of collection anymore; some were service weapons, some personal prior to our hand-gun ban. Of that list all I have now are the Win 94, an AR15 and M14/M1A in straight pull bolt action. Plus lots of others, Enfields, mausers etc. Two Muzzle loader pistols and two non handgun long-barrelled, non rifles, pistol looking thingies! (if you can understand? but they are neither rifles nor handguns under our crazy laws !)

[squirrelblaster]

hmm. im sorry to hear you dont have them anymore..... but am i undrstanding correct that you have a bolt action version of the M14/M1A?? i dont think ive ever seen such a thing.

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by squirrelbaster

hmm. im sorry to hear you dont have them anymore..... but am i undrstanding correct that you have a bolt action version of the M14/M1A?? i dont think ive ever seen such a thing.

I sort of live in Britain where we are not allowed full bore semis, so we have them built without the gas systems or gas-take off holes in the barrel to comply with our crazy law. No gas system, means they are straight-pull bolt action rifles & therefore legal to own. It was the only way we could give the finger to the government.

We have the lot, AR, FAL, AK, M14, Garands and they are very accurate.

See attached picture of my AR15 & M14

[squirrelblaster]

wow, thats sad...but im glad you guys found a way you could still legaly own them.

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by squirrelbaster

wow, thats sad...but im glad you guys found a way you could still legaly own them.

Yup with the bans some people just rolled over & let the government scratch their bellies; those who addressed this with a positive attitude moved on.

It has been said that I have an ATTITUDE!


Also attached picture of my Non-handgun, cause handguns are banned in the UK. Under UK law, this is not a handgun. (handguns have a barrel less than 12" and an overall length of less than 24"....or so the government decreed!!)
Taurus 12" barrelled, .357 mag, 7 shot, with "wrist brace". Non handgun!

[squirrelblaster]

sweet!! i like it, thats not a hand gun, with a brace like that its a whole arm gun!....but realy thats great, is it hard to use? ie: front heavy?

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by squirrelbaster

sweet!! i like it, thats not a hand gun, with a brace like that its a whole arm gun!....but realy thats great, is it hard to use? ie: front heavy?

Not Hard to use, takes a bit of getting used to, up sight and fire within about 3 seconds though cos it is a bit heavy. It is a bit of a tack driver with decent target loaded .38 special wadcutters!

[squirrelblaster]

thanks for allthe info wunhunglo, now i feel like this thread was accualy usefull for somthing!