Well if you don't have to kill anything bigger than a Jack Rabbit for food and your Ninja tactics allow you to avoid all enemies then things will work out just fine for you.
__________________
Aim real good we're nearly out of ammo.
I don't think I would want to go up against the U.S Military or Canada's with a 22 rifle.
Though your's to me is a work of art and it has the look but fact is, it's a pea shooter in a SHTF situation.
It sure looks nice though...A.H
Well if you don't have to kill anything bigger than a Jack Rabbit for food and your Ninja tactics allow you to avoid all enemies then things will work out just fine for you.
I know, because people are actually immune to .22lr rounds until hours later. Silly me.
Ill relist some of my reasons for the .22lr.
I can empty the entire mag into a torso at 25 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger. And that was without much practice. Im sure there are people who can do that with full auto AKs and ARs, but the best thing about using the .22lr for that is I can run through 20 mags (500 rounds) and spend $12 doing it. Doing the same thing with 7.62x39 would cost like $90 using cheap old surplus ammo, and with .223 would cost an easy $130. Due to that, I will be able to practice a BUNCH more and under different simulated stresses (typically time limitations or pressures) and thus become much more proficient with it than with a centerfire
Using powderless ammo I can practice quick single shots or carefully placed ones in my own (urban) back yard. Even further, it is very dangerous to shoot even those medium-powered rifles anywhere except a dedicated range (of the places I have access to). Even with a few hundred yards between our backstop, we don't feel comfortable shooting rifle calibers out there, as if it grazed the top of the backstop or one of the logs behid it, it could very easily travel those 300 yards through the woods and hit one of the houses in the neighborhoods behind it. With a .22lr that risk drops dramatically. Even esing even a pistol-caliber carbine to reduce the power and distance, you lose much of the noise advantage and almost all of the cost advantage of shooting the .22lr. So, add range costs to those ammo prices. Realistically, I can barely afford to stock up on enough nice (I.E. hollow point) centerfire rounds to not run out during some "run of the mill" SHTF situation, especially so when you add in costs of practicing. As stated, my GF and I can practice quite a bit for what a cheap date costs, and I the nicest .22lr rounds (which would just be kept around for emergencies) still costs only about a third of what bulk centerfire practice ammo would.
Its noise using high velocity rounds is still much quieter than almost any centerfire. Less noise and muzzle flash has many advantages in a TEOTWAWKI scenario, as you better preserve temporary hearing and night vision, especially in closer spaces. And, of course, you will attract less attention without the bright flash and loud crack of a rifle-caliber weapon.
Lots of ammo can easily be carried. Where one could fit 25 shotgun shells one could fit about 40 rifle cartridges, 100 or so pistol cartridges, or several hundred (maybe 300-400) .22lr rounds. I know this from what will fit in the front pocket of my vest, which has held all of said amounts except rifle cartridges (which I just haven't tried yet).
And, I think people greatly underestimate the .22lr, especially the higher-end rounds. Hell, much beef is slaughtered with simple .22lr pistols, right between the eyes, and their skulls are much thicker than ours. And I know we've all heard the 250+yd clothed turkey story.
BTW, I don't like the Stingers so much because their light weight and higher velocity makes them much more likely to fragment on impact than the heavier, slower rounds. I will most likely be running (for emergencies) either rounds like the Velocitors (40gr, ~1450fps), or even those 60gr, ~950fps rounds, which as I understand have about the best penetration for .22lr rounds (16"+ inches easily) out of rifles, and easily beat the 12" minimum when shot from a pistol.
Sure, it isn't going to explode someone's chest, but for the few confrontations Id expect to have Id rather have a 10/22 that I shoot 20 days per month, than an AR15 that I shoot 1 day per month through (along with the other disadvantages Ive stated). Any more than "a few" firefights and you are probably just being a hero and are asking to get yourself killed, regardless of how big a "tool" you're swinging around.
*edit*
Oh, and I plan on getting a 9mm pistol as a BUG for CQ stuff. For that, noise is probably less of an issue if I am drawing the BUG, and Id also be able to much more easily afford to practice a little bit and keep maybe one box of nice HP ammo around.
Please forgive me but I personaly would want a bit more fire power and long range ability, thus the reason for the above posts.
If your confident with your rig and skills useing it, then thats all that matters.
A.H
In defense of Jm's kick@#* 10/22, I shoot a Rem. Speedmaster but got the opportunity to shoot a friend's 10/22 several weeks ago. His was a synthetic stock with a stainless barrel and Butler Creek 25 rd mags. We were hunting coyotes and bobcats over some hog carcasses we drug down near a watering hole. The 10/22 performed well, as did the Speedmaster ( he was shooting mine ). In a SHTF scenario I would not hesitate to carry a rimfire weapon. Weight and ammo would be at a premium. And the misconception that the rimfire is for target and plinking only is one I've had many times with many people. I understand that we are sportsman and we want a clean, one-shot kill. But we are talking about serious survival situations. And the .22 lr has put enough meat on enough tables to earn its nod as a viable survival weapon.
In defense of Jm's kick@#* 10/22, I shoot a Rem. Speedmaster but got the opportunity to shoot a friend's 10/22 several weeks ago. His was a synthetic stock with a stainless barrel and Butler Creek 25 rd mags. We were hunting coyotes and bobcats over some hog carcasses we drug down near a watering hole. The 10/22 performed well, as did the Speedmaster ( he was shooting mine ). In a SHTF scenario I would not hesitate to carry a rimfire weapon. Weight and ammo would be at a premium. And the misconception that the rimfire is for target and plinking only is one I've had many times with many people. I understand that we are sportsman and we want a clean, one-shot kill. But we are talking about serious survival situations. And the .22 lr has put enough meat on enough tables to earn its nod as a viable survival weapon.
so did you get any yotes or cats??
btw very nice looking 10/22 JM, i have one that is completely stock (plus a cheap tasco 4x scope) and i absolutely love it, especially with my butler creek 25 rnd mag. I love rapid fireing and seeing how effective it would be. the way i would use it in a life or death would not be to unload tho. when i line up clays and shoot them i do 3 or 4 rounds in a row and can keep them all extremely close, that i suppose i could do that with more i just don't think more than 4 rounds in the chest of an enemy would be necessary even with a 22 lr.
i suppose i could do that with more i just don't think more than 4 rounds in the chest of an enemy would be necessary even with a 22 lr.
Oh I agree. I typically prefer to only do double- or triple-taps and try to keep them in a head-sized group (at say 20 yds), meaning I could effectively triple-tap a torso at maybe 40-50 yards (at which distances, though, the need for multi-shot firing drops as you have more time for well-placed singles).
And, AH you are exactly right that Id rather have a lesser rig that I am very comfortable with than have a more powerful weapon that gives me a false sense of confidence.
As far as distance goes, it is more than capable to 100 yards which is realistically as far as Id want to shoot somebody in most cases. However, I have been very tempted to accurize a 10/22 (or get her a marlin, haha) and see if I can't get the GF to hit some 5" discs at 200 yards, hehe.
I'd like to have a 10-22 set up for squirrel hunting.
Using one in a SHTF situation is living in a dream world. But it's your butt, you do what you think's right for you.
__________________
Aim real good we're nearly out of ammo.
Using one in a SHTF situation is living in a dream world.
Oh come on. "Living in a dream world?" Do you honestly think people are immune to the .22lr? Do you think a .33" diameter hole through a person (.22lr HP) is THAT much worse than a .35" diameter hole through a person (9mm FMJ)? For as much as Id get to practice, do you think one .35" hole in someone (9mm FMJ) is better than two or three .33" holes?
That is only I understand it being difficult to swallow for some, but you are kindof getting to the point of simply stamping your feet and yelling that you refuse to accept it. Contrary to what you imply in your other new thread, I DEFINATELY do not base what Im saying on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Franklin
'maybe', 'I read somewhere', 'someone's cousin saw' or 'in this movie I saw'.
. I go by emperical data. So far all you've given me that goes against using a .22lr to fight people has been, as far as usefulness to me, in the same catagory as "some guy on the internet said..."
And, btw, I think anyone who thinks they can go up against any military force with the expectation that their caliber is going to win them the battle is the fool.
But, Im getting the feeling that we are going to have to simply agree to disagree, until you can find me some data proving my views truely false. You can keep downplaying me as a wannabe "ninja," and Ill continue to understand that some people just refuse to accept new ideas no matter what you present or how you present it.
*edit*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko911
Nice we got one but the 30 round mags we got are crap the ones you have they feed real good?
These ones are about the most expensive "normal-sized" Hi-Cap mags Ive found, and seem to be the best and most carefully designed ones. So far after about half a box of bulk ammo Ive had no FTFs.
To be honest I don't know if I would have gone this route had I not found these mags. I wouldnt have gone 10/22 without hi-cap mags, and most mags I had found were not as reliable as I would have liked. However, these get great reiews from everyone and Ive had the same results.
JM,
Those are some good points you made in defense of the .22LR. Wonder why no army on earth ever thought of them. Instead of " pumping 25 rds. into a torso," I'd rather just put one .223 or .308, but that's just me.
I wouldn't mind having a rifle like yours to fall back on, but I wouldn't want to have to bet my life on it. Good luck with that.
The best thing about a .22 in SHTF IS the SILENCE factor. Ask anyone who's served in Bosnia...they used a lot of bolt-action & semi-auto .22's with coke bottles on the ends as silencers and firing SUBSONIC (target) ROUNDS...VERY quiet and VERY effective. Head shots all day long.
Now, would I ONLY use a .22 in SHTF?? HELL NO!! The .22 has a SPECIFIC ROLE...it's not a DO-ALL, but it's darned close. As a ZHTF weapon, it lacks stopping power. If ANY kind of troops (Russian/Cuban/Mexican) are involved, use the tactics of our 1776 Revolutionary War brethren...stick & move. One shot & Haul Bacon Bits.
Is it a VERY useful tool? HELL YEA!! It would be the Go-To Gun for a wide variety of chores...from rabbit/squirrel/coyote (good with catsup) to raccoon/possum/bobcat it's perfect...and quiet. You CAN take a small deer with a .22, but it is generally illegal in most US states and you darn well better use a head shot because a body shot is just going to make it run a LONG WAY.
The .22 should be the BEGINNING of a SHTF collection...it does a LOT of things right, but sometimes you just need the heavier firepower of .308/7.62mm like a BAR or AK/SKS type.
I'd choose almost ANYTHING over .223/5.56mm because an M16, while a beautiful tool, is made to WOUND, not to kill. And it was NEVER meant to stand up to sandy enviroments as anyone who's ever been to Ranger training at Eglin can testify. That particular fact is being proven right now in Afghanistan and Iraq as the US Military has been recalling any & all M-14's that it loaned out to Law Enforcement & shipping them to our troops.
__________________ Marlin & Calico Specialist
I'm not just Trigger Happy, I'm Trigger Ecstatic!!
BTW, this won't be my only SHTF weapon. This is what Ill be taking for the possible runs we might have to make to our rendezvous point. Whether we have to move on foot from the car (stuck at a road block or in traffic) or have to hoof it all the way from our house, we will have the .22 rifles, sidearms (9mm), and our packs. We won't be able to carry tons of extra weapons, and IMO for someone on the move avoiding everyone a .22 / 9mm is a great combo. We will likely also be getting a Mosin Nagant to keep around (or some other bolt-action rifle, though its about impossible to beat the MN's value).
.
