i have a question - Page 2

KGunner · 07-12-2008, 01:06 PM

It is happening here slowly, but there are also many laws being passed which further cement our rights, the concealed carry states are increasing yearly, and the Supreme Court just ruled in favor of the 2nd Amendment. I think registration of firearms would be accepted, but confiscation would be fought through law and possibly armed action. I think the report of stolen firearms would increase sharply if owning a gun was to be made illegal. In my experience, those in the military are gun owners too, and those in law enforcement often pursue careers with firearms if they decide to quit the force or retire.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many issues with guns are decided on a state-by-state basis. The Federal Government has little say in this matter, that isn't to say they wouldn't overstep their authority, but then you would have another Civil War as states seceded from the Union, and this time it wouldn't be a North v. South affair either. I have a feeling it would be a midwest, south, and west minus Kommiefornia against the east...and when an armed population goes against an unarmed population, well, I think the result can be accurately guessed. With the majority of our military overseas with no end in sight, and our National Guard made up of civilians, the government would have few options.

knightRider · 07-12-2008, 01:16 PM

good post Kgunner

Wildman · 07-12-2008, 01:22 PM

They can have my guns. But they will get them bullets first. I have a lot of bullets, I wonder how much time they have?

Quote:

“The right is absolute … government has no authority to forbid me from owning a firearm … the debate is not about guns. It is about freedom.”
California State Sen. Tom McClintock, 6/9/2001

Quote:

“The Second Amendment is not about duck hunting, and I know I’m not going to make very many friends saying this, but it’s about our right, all of our right to be able to protect ourselves from all of you guys up there.”
Dr. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, appearing before Representative Charles Schumer’s committee hearings on the assault weapons ban.

Quote:

“The fundamental force behind the Second Amendment is to empower the people and give them the greatest measure of authority over the tyranny of runaway government.”
U.S. Rep. Bob Schaffer, 2002

Quote:

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government."

Thomas Jefferson

oldjarhead · 07-12-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

I'd like to believe it wouldn't happen but I also believe it could happen again, depending on circumstances.
The antis are snipping away at your rights daily and if you follow what happened in other countries, first there will be registration then confiscation. Don't believe it couldn't happen, it has happened in many many countries. It Has happened in the USA during a hurricane SHTF scenario, it could happen again.
If they make it illegal to own a firearm, I'm sure that there are plenty of LEO's who will only be too glad to enforce the law and if it is really a SHTF scenario and Martial law declared and the government has outlawed the possession of firearms, then the Army would follow Lawfull orders.

You're right to a point; that the antis are snipping at our rights every day.
However, I do believe (and have faith) that the American gun-owning citizen will not falter as did the Brits, Canadians, and Australians, along with most of Europe, when it comes to losing their firearms which we have a written right to have by the 2d Amendment and against the illegal actions of a government that wishes to confiscate firearms.
I'm sure the blokes in the outback have enough firepower and ammunition cached away to serve them for many years to come.
One must keep in mind that a great majority of LEO's and military members are also private gun owners and as such will most likely balk at the order to confiscate weaponry from friends and family.
Personally, I refuse to play the political correctness game with anyone or any form of government.
If you are happy to have the UN directing your country's agenda, then so be it. I have come to like my rights and I will defend those rights provided by the constitution "...against all enemies, foreign and domestic".

ArkansasHunter · 07-12-2008, 01:27 PM

Let me say this for our members at G&G of other countrys.

If the United States goverment were to implement a law(s) that we had to give up our guns.
It would mean that our goverment was going to have there own agenda contrary to our Constitution which all U.S. citicens beleive in and support.

As U.S. citicens we can't allow that to happen thus the reason we have the right to own and bear arms, and most will if our goverment trys to infrigen on NOT just the 2nd. amendment but all of them.

We have a say in how this country is ran yet in the past few year's weve elected liars and the powers that be have turned there backs on the U.S. citicens and have sold them selves out to bussiness, money, corporation, there on agenda.

If you've been a member here very long or a member of another Forum you'll notice the American people have had enough !!!
Your witnessing the beginning of an upriseing in the U.S. The People against it's Federal Goverment due in part from what I said above.

Right now we can vote the trash out but if they continue to sell out the U.S. then other means will have to come about and we hope that does'nt happen, because many Americans will die.

Were not blowing smoke and were not giveing up our guns !!! The saying....
Give me Liberty or Give me Death holds true today as it did with our Fore Fathers many years ago.

We mean it when we say...You can have my gun if you can pry it from my cold dead hands...A.H

knightRider · 07-12-2008, 01:41 PM

true mike true

TXplt · 07-12-2008, 01:43 PM

I do not like it that our government can wantonly conduct warrantless searches. The SCOTUS decision was an important one from a RKBA perspective. There's now a clear precident that the 2A protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. Our military is sworn to protect and defend the constitution of the United States as their primary charge. Any officer or NCO would now be required NOT to follow an order to disarm people--this would clearly be an illegal order without ambiguity given the decision. Any individual carrying out the illegal order to disarm citizens could be prosecuted for his/her actions.

wunhunglo · 07-12-2008, 01:55 PM

It took our antis and our liberal governments nigh on 80 years to strip us of most of our gun rights, bit by bit you can see it happening in the States also; that's one of the reason's I always advise you guys to join your shooting organisations and let your voice be heard. The Brits originally thought like you guys, that it would never happen in Britain, just like the demise of fox-hunting but it has!!!

With us it started in 1920 with the government of the day worried by the events of the Russian revolution, so they brought in the first firearms laws & banned the populace from having full auto weapons, in case we had a revolution; successive governments have kept up the assault against our rights to own firearms purely to ensure the safety of their own asses.

Are your politicians any different??

knightRider · 07-12-2008, 01:58 PM

I am buying a full auto on Monday . you can still do that in America .

see my thread for more details

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...27-monday.html (Monday !)

wunhunglo · 07-12-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightRider

I am buying a full auto on Monday . you can still do that in America .

see my thread for more details

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...27-monday.html (Monday !)

You can still do it in the UK but it is a bitch for the paperwork. For some reason full autos in the UK are only a fraction of the prices you guys have to pay over there! You can get a Thompson 1928A1 for less than about $3000.00 and a Bren for less than $1000.00.

KGunner · 07-12-2008, 02:13 PM

Demand is higher here I have a feeling.

wunhunglo · 07-12-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KGunner

Demand is higher here I have a feeling.

Nah, not just that, to use a Scottish expression, somebody is takin the pi$$!

Over here they buy up lots of them, deactivate them and sell most for less than $1000 and still make considerable profit.

If you could talk your government into relaxing some of it's ridiculous import laws, you'd all be better off.

Don't know how many of you know this but there are a couple of container loads of surplus european ammunition destined for the states that your state department has put the blocks on, sitting idle in the UK. Biggest bummer is that they can't sell it to the UK shooters either! It's just sitting in limbo at the moment.

knightRider · 07-12-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

It took our antis and our liberal governments nigh on 80 years to strip us of most of our gun rights, bit by bit you can see it happening in the States also; that's one of the reason's I always advise you guys to join your shooting organisations and let your voice be heard. The Brits originally thought like you guys, that it would never happen in Britain, just like the demise of fox-hunting but it has!!!

With us it started in 1920 with the government of the day worried by the events of the Russian revolution, so they brought in the first firearms laws & banned the populace from having full auto weapons, in case we had a revolution; successive governments have kept up the assault against our rights to own firearms purely to ensure the safety of their own asses.

Are your politicians any different??

if you can get machine guns why post this post ?

wunhunglo · 07-12-2008, 02:35 PM

Prior to 1920 in the UK there was no registration or licensing.
Nowadays licensing is so strict and repressive that most people just gave up on the idea.

stalebiscuit · 07-12-2008, 04:22 PM

if the government no longer serves its purpose, then it is no longer legitimate

IE, if troops stormed into my neighborhood demanding my guns id tell them....hey, they all got stolen when you WERENT here defending my block

Cyrano · 07-12-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

It took our antis and our liberal governments nigh on 80 years to strip us of most of our gun rights, bit by bit you can see it happening in the States also; that's one of the reason's I always advise you guys to join your shooting organisations and let your voice be heard. The Brits originally thought like you guys, that it would never happen in Britain, just like the demise of fox-hunting but it has!!!

With us it started in 1920 with the government of the day worried by the events of the Russian revolution, so they brought in the first firearms laws & banned the populace from having full auto weapons, in case we had a revolution; successive governments have kept up the assault against our rights to own firearms purely to ensure the safety of their own asses.

Are your politicians any different??

I don't know about the politicians, wun, but we do have one thing going for us you Brits didn't concerning gun ownership. The United States Constitution exists in written form. If you go to the Library of Congress, you can even see the original, hand-written document.

The British Constitution, as I understand it, exists in the minds of lawyers and politicians. It's not written down; merely the precedents the barristers and the government have established concerning it over the years. That in turn means that the British Consitution says whatever the party in powers wants it to say. Shades of George Orwell!

As you just saw, when the US Supreme Court was called upon to rule on just what the Second Amendment means they did not get to pick and choose what it said, or to rewrite the Second Amendment. They had to rule on the written words ratified in 1789. And that was what they did. We were fortunate that five of the nine justices did not have their heads up their asses and understood that their role in the American system of government is not to make law; it is to decide if a given law is in compliance with the US Constitution, as written and amended by the people themselves. (Because you're not a US citizen, you might not know that the supporters of a Consitutional amendment must obtain a 2/3rds majority of states voting yea to incorporate a proposed amendment into the Constitution, and they only have a few years - seven, if memory serves - to obtain that many states voting for the amendment. And it sometimes galls the supporters of a particular amendment that the vote from a place like Montana or Wisconsin, which has more deer than people, or a tiny state like Rhode Island, has just as equal a vote as a heavily populated state like New York or a big state like California.)

While it's true we've had "legislation from the Bench," e.g., the Roe v. Wade decision that legalized a woman's right to have an abortion if she wants one, as a group the American people don't hold with that kind of judicial activism. The want the Congress to make the laws, the President to enforce them, and the Supreme Court to decide if the laws are constitutional. Checks and balances; and mostly it works.

The DC v. Heller decision that affirmed the right to keep and bear arms in the United States is an absolute, individual right the government may not infringe upon, saving only that certain restrictions may be permitted at the state level based on a person's record; and that you must have a special license to own full-auto firearms. In essence, it preserved the status quo, but cut the ground out from under the antigunners. They will have a much harder time in the future trying to pass new antigun laws. And the existing unreasonable ones are open to legal challenge.

We would not be in this position today if the Constitution was not a written document. What you gunowners in the UK need to do is lobby your Members of Parliament for a law requring the British Constitution to be written down, voted on by the subjects of the British Crown, and thereafter require the laws passed by Parliament conform to it. It would give the House of Lords something to do, since with the reforms that took control of the budget out of their hands they are essentially superfluous. Make them the arbiters, a job equivalent to the Supreme Court here, and it might work for you, as I don't think the UK has a Supreme Court equivalent, save the Queen herself. What do you think?

Paul T · 07-12-2008, 05:58 PM

There are some things I am willing to give my life for.

My God. I believe that with out Him there is no liberty.

My children and grand children. For me to have another reason to help
secure liberty.

My flag and country. In my opinion the only country which maintains
all freedoms and guarrantees its citizens the rights given by God
and requires responsibilities to ensure others have the same rights.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights. 2nd amendment included as wirtten.
No justification needed here.

Finally my fellow citizens. No matter what language they speak.
Or the Color of their skin or their religeon. They also are guarranteed Liberty.

I guess how you may surmize my reaction to any attempt to being disarmed.

YankeeSpirit76 · 07-12-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy

if soldiers showed up at my door and demanded my guns i would hand em over.
im not suicidal.

Billy, some things are bigger and more important to most than even our own lives. The Constitution tells us that if our government should get out of hand and become something it wasn't meant to be, it is not only our (We the people ) right to take it back, but it is our DUTY to do so.

sbowers5 · 07-12-2008, 06:05 PM

+ 1 knightRider and all you other vets that have been there and done that i'v got your back and you've got mine lettum come.
steve

billy · 07-12-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeeSpirit76

Billy, some things are bigger and more important to most than even our own lives. The Constitution tells us that if our government should get out of hand and become something it wasn't meant to be, it is not only our (We the people ) right to take it back, but it is our DUTY to do so.

im still not suicidal.

07-12-2008, 01:06 PM	#21
KGunner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 440	It is happening here slowly, but there are also many laws being passed which further cement our rights, the concealed carry states are increasing yearly, and the Supreme Court just ruled in favor of the 2nd Amendment. I think registration of firearms would be accepted, but confiscation would be fought through law and possibly armed action. I think the report of stolen firearms would increase sharply if owning a gun was to be made illegal. In my experience, those in the military are gun owners too, and those in law enforcement often pursue careers with firearms if they decide to quit the force or retire. Another thing to keep in mind is that many issues with guns are decided on a state-by-state basis. The Federal Government has little say in this matter, that isn't to say they wouldn't overstep their authority, but then you would have another Civil War as states seceded from the Union, and this time it wouldn't be a North v. South affair either. I have a feeling it would be a midwest, south, and west minus Kommiefornia against the east...and when an armed population goes against an unarmed population, well, I think the result can be accurately guessed. With the majority of our military overseas with no end in sight, and our National Guard made up of civilians, the government would have few options. __________________ Kel-Tec P11 Mossberg 500A Tactical 12 ga. 1947 Mosin Nagant M44 Yugo SKS 59/66 Last edited by KGunner; 07-12-2008 at 01:14 PM.

07-12-2008, 01:16 PM	#22
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,683 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	good post Kgunner __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

07-12-2008, 01:27 PM	#25
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	Let me say this for our members at G&G of other countrys. If the United States goverment were to implement a law(s) that we had to give up our guns. It would mean that our goverment was going to have there own agenda contrary to our Constitution which all U.S. citicens beleive in and support. As U.S. citicens we can't allow that to happen thus the reason we have the right to own and bear arms, and most will if our goverment trys to infrigen on NOT just the 2nd. amendment but all of them. We have a say in how this country is ran yet in the past few year's weve elected liars and the powers that be have turned there backs on the U.S. citicens and have sold them selves out to bussiness, money, corporation, there on agenda. If you've been a member here very long or a member of another Forum you'll notice the American people have had enough !!! Your witnessing the beginning of an upriseing in the U.S. The People against it's Federal Goverment due in part from what I said above. Right now we can vote the trash out but if they continue to sell out the U.S. then other means will have to come about and we hope that does'nt happen, because many Americans will die. Were not blowing smoke and were not giveing up our guns !!! The saying.... Give me Liberty or Give me Death holds true today as it did with our Fore Fathers many years ago. We mean it when we say...You can have my gun if you can pry it from my cold dead hands...A.H Last edited by ArkansasHunter; 07-12-2008 at 04:22 PM.

07-12-2008, 01:41 PM	#26
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,683 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	true mike true __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

07-12-2008, 01:43 PM	#27
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	I do not like it that our government can wantonly conduct warrantless searches. The SCOTUS decision was an important one from a RKBA perspective. There's now a clear precident that the 2A protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. Our military is sworn to protect and defend the constitution of the United States as their primary charge. Any officer or NCO would now be required NOT to follow an order to disarm people--this would clearly be an illegal order without ambiguity given the decision. Any individual carrying out the illegal order to disarm citizens could be prosecuted for his/her actions. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

07-12-2008, 01:55 PM	#28
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,659	It took our antis and our liberal governments nigh on 80 years to strip us of most of our gun rights, bit by bit you can see it happening in the States also; that's one of the reason's I always advise you guys to join your shooting organisations and let your voice be heard. The Brits originally thought like you guys, that it would never happen in Britain, just like the demise of fox-hunting but it has!!! With us it started in 1920 with the government of the day worried by the events of the Russian revolution, so they brought in the first firearms laws & banned the populace from having full auto weapons, in case we had a revolution; successive governments have kept up the assault against our rights to own firearms purely to ensure the safety of their own asses. Are your politicians any different??

07-12-2008, 01:58 PM	#29
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,683 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	I am buying a full auto on Monday . you can still do that in America . see my thread for more details http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...27-monday.html (Monday !) __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

07-12-2008, 02:13 PM	#31
KGunner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 440	Demand is higher here I have a feeling. __________________ Kel-Tec P11 Mossberg 500A Tactical 12 ga. 1947 Mosin Nagant M44 Yugo SKS 59/66

07-12-2008, 02:35 PM	#34
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,659	Prior to 1920 in the UK there was no registration or licensing. Nowadays licensing is so strict and repressive that most people just gave up on the idea.

07-12-2008, 04:22 PM	#35
stalebiscuit Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: atlanta, but much rather be in valdosta Posts: 1,587	if the government no longer serves its purpose, then it is no longer legitimate IE, if troops stormed into my neighborhood demanding my guns id tell them....hey, they all got stolen when you WERENT here defending my block

07-12-2008, 05:58 PM	#37
Paul T Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Mounds Ok Posts: 256 Images: 5 Blog Entries: 5	There are some things I am willing to give my life for. My God. I believe that with out Him there is no liberty. My children and grand children. For me to have another reason to help secure liberty. My flag and country. In my opinion the only country which maintains all freedoms and guarrantees its citizens the rights given by God and requires responsibilities to ensure others have the same rights. The Constitution and Bill of Rights. 2nd amendment included as wirtten. No justification needed here. Finally my fellow citizens. No matter what language they speak. Or the Color of their skin or their religeon. They also are guarranteed Liberty. I guess how you may surmize my reaction to any attempt to being disarmed. __________________ Easter will be late this year...

07-12-2008, 06:05 PM	#39
sbowers5 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: sawyer, ok Posts: 539	+ 1 knightRider and all you other vets that have been there and done that i'v got your back and you've got mine lettum come. steve __________________ For those who never fought for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know. Last edited by sbowers5; 07-12-2008 at 06:08 PM.