Vieques & the Navy

Mandy · 09-19-2002, 09:09 AM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Thanks guys:

Oxford:
I believe that you aren't ignorant about this, I believe that the information hasn't reached you and thats why I'm trying to expose this.
Thanks for your support, I'm sure the Viequenses apreciate it very much.

7mmmag:
"the Navy is not cutting the mustard when it comes to thier promises" well, they've made thousands of promises to the Viequenses for 60 years and haven't kept a single one.
I'm not antinavy and I support armed forces training, but I think that if the Navy had kept at least 25% of their promises, the Viequenses probably like them and ask them to stay.
Right now after 60 long years, of unkept promises and many situations that I'm not going to discuss right now, the Viequenses finally took a stand and said enough is enough so please leave now and clean the mess.
No problem with the temper, my old man has the meanest temper in the world so I'm used to it.
Remember, this is not personal, this is spread the word around and you people out there, who has the privilege of having representation in the congress, if you feel that some injustice is made here then let them know.
Also, I don't blame the Navy personel in Vieques, some are good and some are bad, but they all have to follow orders from their comanders, so the men in power are the real problem.

jerry:
I can't hardly wait to show around My Island to anyone coming from the states, it's a privilege to show around people because we're very proud of what we have, for example:
1 Summer all year long (lowest temp 65 and thats chilly)
2 Camping all over the Island
3 Night Clubs
4 Lakes
5 The most beatiful beaches in the world
6 Action sports
7 Great food (you may get fat here, every house you go they offer you food)
and the list goes on & on & on.
So feel free to come by any time and I guarranty you that you'll want to return next year.
Many people from the mainland came here for a few days and stayed for decades, who knows, any of you may be the next one.
I'm impress that you asked for Don Q, many people think that bacardi is the best, but bacardi is for export and Don Q well we keep that to ourselves (wonder why).

Now, just a few facts:
1 Did you knew that there are 1 or 2 sunken ships in the coast of Vieques, which are full of containers with radioactive materials (isn't that illlegal dumping?).
2 In the perimeter of Vieques, there are zones marked as no anchor zone because there's unexploded ordinance at the bottom of the sea (you may want to check NOAA's charts).
3 Vieques is mostly a fishing town and when the Navy is practicing the fishermen can't fish.
4 Cancer rate in Vieques is the highest in PR.
5 The sand in Vieques range is so thin from the bombing that a single particle can travel more than 100 miles before falling down again after a bomb explodes.
6 The levels of contamination at the range are so high that it's hazardous to man (levels exceed EPA limits by more than 1000 times in heavy metals and other contaminants).
7 Many Navy personel has been treated for skin & lung deseases after training in Vieques (this won't help our armed forces) (that's one of the reason they rotate personel more in Vieques than in any other base).
8 The military personel only leave base to have fun in town, they have everything they need at the base.

More facts later.

Did you knew that I was one of the guys that didn't care if the Navy was practicing at Vieques or anywhere else?
As I live in San Juan, I never heard the bombing and I have my job every day so it wasn't my problem.
I allways heard about the atrocities commited but that was so far away that I wasn't affected.
Once I went there and saw by myself what was really happening I got mad at myself for neglecting this situation for years.
Still it doesn't affect me directly but I recognize injustice when I see it.

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Mandy · 10-18-2002, 05:14 PM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Flash!!!!!!!!!!!

The navy just anounced to congress their intention of leaving Vieques, they say that they're moving the operations to Florida.

I can't tell you how happy is 70% of the puertoricans.

The big question is if they're not going to backoff at the last moment invoking some retoric about national security or something.

I hope not and for a change do some justice to the little Island of Vieques.

I wish for the first time in my life to be wrong, but it still smell fishy to me.

I'll get you more details as I get hold of them.

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Klaus · 10-18-2002, 06:08 PM

Yes, I hope they pull out too. The US has spent way too much money leasing the place. The US has been very generous. Since the Puerto Ricans seem to hate the US so much, let's totally cut them loose. They may make out as good as the Phillipines or even Cuba.

Mandy · 10-18-2002, 06:18 PM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Sorry to hear that klaus, but that's your opinion and I respect it even that I don't agree with you.
You know, it's not personal to me but aparently to some it is.....
Aparently you haven't read all the posts because you say that we hate US so much.
Read again 'cause I'm not repeating the same thing again.
And Cuba, well, read again.

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

BenP · 10-18-2002, 06:31 PM

Mandy,

Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I lost track of the thread, and then let it slip my mind for a bit. Thanks for the update.

In my first post here, I admit that I came on a little strong. I've never been to Puerto Rico, though I've served with a few Puerto Ricans aboard ship in the Navy. They seemed like nice guys who knew how to enjoy simple pleasures, and who thought Salsa was not just something we put on our eggs in the morning.

I am happy to hear that the Navy is planning to relocate their bombing range. Let's hope they follow through, and then the government may begin the task of cleaning up all the contamination on and around that island.

Castro is old news. I guess I'm just jealous cuz I hear Puerto Rico is such a lovely place, and all we have here is desert sand and smoke from the burning fields, and no beautiful oceans or palm trees. Even our wildlife is becoming so scarce now. We have so much radioactive contamination here the government says it will take hundreds of years to clean it up and ship the thousands of tons of processed waste to a safer place to be stored. Our people here are dying from all this contamination, and our cancer rate is very high. We have complained to the government since WW2, but they have not done anything to help us, except for these ridiculous studies that no one uses. Now the only facility that we have that could be used to make nuclear medicine to fight diseases is going to be dismantled because the government doesn't care about having the only facility in the country that can make this medicine. We had a big fire here a couple years ago, and the government wouldn't even let us fight the fire, and many homes were destroyed. These people too have no where to go, and they are having trouble rebuilding their homes because of harsh building codes that make the new construction costs much higher than the original homes were worth. The government brings in these big contracting firms to do work with promises that local people will be hired to do some of the work, but then the contractors start bringing in their own people from out of state to put in all the high paying positions and the few local people who are hired are working for less pay. They promised all this local spending in our businesses, but we never see any business increase, except short term housing, which raises the cost of owning or renting a home for locals like crazy.

I hope that the government does right for those poor people who've suffered needlessly on the beautiful island. It would be a shame if they did not clean up the mess they made there, and help the people that they hurt to live better lives now.

tommy · 10-18-2002, 09:19 PM

well let me just say this . I have a few friends on the virgin islands / jamaica/ and PR . and they are some real good friends every time they come to the states they give me a call to see how i'm doing . great bunch of people i say. hang in there Mandy.
i also saw a show about the unexspoded shells at the place you'er talking about Mandy it was on one of them 60 minute type shows. they really need to clean it up a bit .
i'm sure i would complain if it was in my back yard too. there is alot of other places they could do these things at . like the mexican border. it might cut down on the aleins comeing in.

Mandy · 10-20-2002, 12:09 PM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Thank you guys, your thoughts are very apreciated.

BenP:
I'm sorry to hear that the same thing is happening in your town.
I can't say I know how you feel but the Viequenses surely know.
I invite you to come to PR any time you want and I'll try to make you feel welcome and as close as home as you can.
As for your medical facility, you can put some heat in your congressmen and stop that stpidity, at least you have some representation on congress (we don't), give me the address of your officials and a few details of the situation and I'll write a letter to your congresman in your support, remember the trick to be heard is spreading the word around and give some solid arguments on your position.

I surely hope that the bureaucrapts don't finish their work and for a change do some justice where it's needed, be it my town or yours, I don't care how they do it, just do it, It's their job to do justice to the citizens that put some trust in them to represent them in congress.

Anything I can do to help you, just let me know and I'll be happy to do it.

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Klaus · 10-20-2002, 03:48 PM

Maybe hate is too strong a word, but there is definitely a "Yankee Go Home" attitude.

Mandy · 10-20-2002, 04:08 PM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

In the specific issue about Vieques bombing, definitely you're right, it's the attitude, it's to late to say I'm sorry.
Too much abuse for so many time, it's time to stop.

Shooting deers, hogs, goats, and big game is one thing but testing ordnance is another in terms of eviromental point of view.

Some may say it's the same thing and try to ban all shooting, but those are the same ones trying to steal your rights, my point is that the extremist, or fanatics are not the majority out there and must be a balance based in justice, not some ###### that wants to make some money at the peoples expense and suffering.

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

09-19-2002, 09:09 AM	#21
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Thanks guys: Oxford: I believe that you aren't ignorant about this, I believe that the information hasn't reached you and thats why I'm trying to expose this. Thanks for your support, I'm sure the Viequenses apreciate it very much. 7mmmag: "the Navy is not cutting the mustard when it comes to thier promises" well, they've made thousands of promises to the Viequenses for 60 years and haven't kept a single one. I'm not antinavy and I support armed forces training, but I think that if the Navy had kept at least 25% of their promises, the Viequenses probably like them and ask them to stay. Right now after 60 long years, of unkept promises and many situations that I'm not going to discuss right now, the Viequenses finally took a stand and said enough is enough so please leave now and clean the mess. No problem with the temper, my old man has the meanest temper in the world so I'm used to it. Remember, this is not personal, this is spread the word around and you people out there, who has the privilege of having representation in the congress, if you feel that some injustice is made here then let them know. Also, I don't blame the Navy personel in Vieques, some are good and some are bad, but they all have to follow orders from their comanders, so the men in power are the real problem. jerry: I can't hardly wait to show around My Island to anyone coming from the states, it's a privilege to show around people because we're very proud of what we have, for example: 1 Summer all year long (lowest temp 65 and thats chilly) 2 Camping all over the Island 3 Night Clubs 4 Lakes 5 The most beatiful beaches in the world 6 Action sports 7 Great food (you may get fat here, every house you go they offer you food) and the list goes on & on & on. So feel free to come by any time and I guarranty you that you'll want to return next year. Many people from the mainland came here for a few days and stayed for decades, who knows, any of you may be the next one. I'm impress that you asked for Don Q, many people think that bacardi is the best, but bacardi is for export and Don Q well we keep that to ourselves (wonder why). Now, just a few facts: 1 Did you knew that there are 1 or 2 sunken ships in the coast of Vieques, which are full of containers with radioactive materials (isn't that illlegal dumping?). 2 In the perimeter of Vieques, there are zones marked as no anchor zone because there's unexploded ordinance at the bottom of the sea (you may want to check NOAA's charts). 3 Vieques is mostly a fishing town and when the Navy is practicing the fishermen can't fish. 4 Cancer rate in Vieques is the highest in PR. 5 The sand in Vieques range is so thin from the bombing that a single particle can travel more than 100 miles before falling down again after a bomb explodes. 6 The levels of contamination at the range are so high that it's hazardous to man (levels exceed EPA limits by more than 1000 times in heavy metals and other contaminants). 7 Many Navy personel has been treated for skin & lung deseases after training in Vieques (this won't help our armed forces) (that's one of the reason they rotate personel more in Vieques than in any other base). 8 The military personel only leave base to have fun in town, they have everything they need at the base. More facts later. Did you knew that I was one of the guys that didn't care if the Navy was practicing at Vieques or anywhere else? As I live in San Juan, I never heard the bombing and I have my job every day so it wasn't my problem. I allways heard about the atrocities commited but that was so far away that I wasn't affected. Once I went there and saw by myself what was really happening I got mad at myself for neglecting this situation for years. Still it doesn't affect me directly but I recognize injustice when I see it. :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: Last edited by Mandy; 09-19-2002 at 07:34 PM.

10-18-2002, 05:14 PM	#22
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Flash!!!!!!!!!!! The navy just anounced to congress their intention of leaving Vieques, they say that they're moving the operations to Florida. I can't tell you how happy is 70% of the puertoricans. The big question is if they're not going to backoff at the last moment invoking some retoric about national security or something. I hope not and for a change do some justice to the little Island of Vieques. I wish for the first time in my life to be wrong, but it still smell fishy to me. I'll get you more details as I get hold of them. :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

10-18-2002, 06:08 PM	#23
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,382	Yes, I hope they pull out too. The US has spent way too much money leasing the place. The US has been very generous. Since the Puerto Ricans seem to hate the US so much, let's totally cut them loose. They may make out as good as the Phillipines or even Cuba. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

10-18-2002, 06:18 PM	#24
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Sorry to hear that klaus, but that's your opinion and I respect it even that I don't agree with you. You know, it's not personal to me but aparently to some it is..... Aparently you haven't read all the posts because you say that we hate US so much. Read again 'cause I'm not repeating the same thing again. And Cuba, well, read again. :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

10-18-2002, 09:19 PM	#26
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,147 Images: 6	well let me just say this . I have a few friends on the virgin islands / jamaica/ and PR . and they are some real good friends every time they come to the states they give me a call to see how i'm doing . great bunch of people i say. hang in there Mandy. i also saw a show about the unexspoded shells at the place you'er talking about Mandy it was on one of them 60 minute type shows. they really need to clean it up a bit . i'm sure i would complain if it was in my back yard too. there is alot of other places they could do these things at . like the mexican border. it might cut down on the aleins comeing in. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

10-18-2002, 06:31 PM	#25
BenP Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 395	Mandy, Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I lost track of the thread, and then let it slip my mind for a bit. Thanks for the update. In my first post here, I admit that I came on a little strong. I've never been to Puerto Rico, though I've served with a few Puerto Ricans aboard ship in the Navy. They seemed like nice guys who knew how to enjoy simple pleasures, and who thought Salsa was not just something we put on our eggs in the morning. I am happy to hear that the Navy is planning to relocate their bombing range. Let's hope they follow through, and then the government may begin the task of cleaning up all the contamination on and around that island. Castro is old news. I guess I'm just jealous cuz I hear Puerto Rico is such a lovely place, and all we have here is desert sand and smoke from the burning fields, and no beautiful oceans or palm trees. Even our wildlife is becoming so scarce now. We have so much radioactive contamination here the government says it will take hundreds of years to clean it up and ship the thousands of tons of processed waste to a safer place to be stored. Our people here are dying from all this contamination, and our cancer rate is very high. We have complained to the government since WW2, but they have not done anything to help us, except for these ridiculous studies that no one uses. Now the only facility that we have that could be used to make nuclear medicine to fight diseases is going to be dismantled because the government doesn't care about having the only facility in the country that can make this medicine. We had a big fire here a couple years ago, and the government wouldn't even let us fight the fire, and many homes were destroyed. These people too have no where to go, and they are having trouble rebuilding their homes because of harsh building codes that make the new construction costs much higher than the original homes were worth. The government brings in these big contracting firms to do work with promises that local people will be hired to do some of the work, but then the contractors start bringing in their own people from out of state to put in all the high paying positions and the few local people who are hired are working for less pay. They promised all this local spending in our businesses, but we never see any business increase, except short term housing, which raises the cost of owning or renting a home for locals like crazy. I hope that the government does right for those poor people who've suffered needlessly on the beautiful island. It would be a shame if they did not clean up the mess they made there, and help the people that they hurt to live better lives now.

10-20-2002, 12:09 PM	#27
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Thank you guys, your thoughts are very apreciated. BenP: I'm sorry to hear that the same thing is happening in your town. I can't say I know how you feel but the Viequenses surely know. I invite you to come to PR any time you want and I'll try to make you feel welcome and as close as home as you can. As for your medical facility, you can put some heat in your congressmen and stop that stpidity, at least you have some representation on congress (we don't), give me the address of your officials and a few details of the situation and I'll write a letter to your congresman in your support, remember the trick to be heard is spreading the word around and give some solid arguments on your position. I surely hope that the bureaucrapts don't finish their work and for a change do some justice where it's needed, be it my town or yours, I don't care how they do it, just do it, It's their job to do justice to the citizens that put some trust in them to represent them in congress. Anything I can do to help you, just let me know and I'll be happy to do it. :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

10-20-2002, 03:48 PM	#28
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,382	Maybe hate is too strong a word, but there is definitely a "Yankee Go Home" attitude. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

10-20-2002, 04:08 PM	#29
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: In the specific issue about Vieques bombing, definitely you're right, it's the attitude, it's to late to say I'm sorry. Too much abuse for so many time, it's time to stop. Shooting deers, hogs, goats, and big game is one thing but testing ordnance is another in terms of eviromental point of view. Some may say it's the same thing and try to ban all shooting, but those are the same ones trying to steal your rights, my point is that the extremist, or fanatics are not the majority out there and must be a balance based in justice, not some ###### that wants to make some money at the peoples expense and suffering. :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: