Administrative Law

Mike Franklin · 08-20-2008, 10:30 AM

This is the most dangerous assault on the three branches of Gov't that has ever occurred. It, for all practical purposes, does away with the 'checks and balances' of our Constitution.
The way it works;
The Legislature passes a Law but without specifics on how it should be enforced. It then gives the Enforcing Agency the ability to write regulations on how to enforce or apply the Law. The Agency then writes policies, laws, that it enforces to achieve the purpose of the Law.
Here's an example.
In Texas when you retire with enough years of service you remain a Commissioned LEO. You can carry a gun and even make arrests. Now 2 retired State Troopers were working a security type job using their retirement status as officers. The agency they worked for and retired from has the 'power to regulate' Security Guards. Based on regulations that the agency wrote themselves, they arrested the 2 Troopers and charged them with Impersonating a Peace Officer. State Law says that they are Officers????
The catch? The Agency receives tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars in licenses fees from the industry that they regulate. The industry does not want any completion from current or retired Officers. The 2 retired Officer are facing jail time for violating a policy written by an Agency not by any Legislative body.
This stuff happens all the time. Very many of the enforcement actions taken by Federal Agencies, such as ATF, are based on Administrative ‘Laws’ that they write themselves.
And you wonder how they get so much authority??

Rave · 08-20-2008, 10:42 AM

It appears that there is no justice anymore,a shame.

woodster · 08-20-2008, 10:49 AM

You have touched on the tip of the ice-berg my friend. I was going to do a post on 'Can we trust the FBI and ATF?'
This is a subject that has legs.

Excellent post!

"An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lion led by a sheep."

nathangdad · 08-20-2008, 11:10 AM

treatment under the table that is the only true hallmark of our current governor's (Rick Perry) multiple re-elections to office.

You have no idea how much I long for a real governor for our state.
I know I am not alone.

Just call me "sick of current Texas politics"

Coeloptera · 08-20-2008, 11:23 AM

Well yes. Look at drug laws. It took a Constitutional Amendment to ban all sales of alcohol. Now, many "controlled substance" laws are essentially created by the DEA and even if a state wants to legalize something, the DEA says they can't, when the states should have that right.

I don't think I've seen a single person on this entire forum who supports the ATF, by and large.

The question regarding the two retired LEOs is one of legislative heirarchy, I think. When laws conflict, what level takes precedence?'

- Coeloptera

DWFan · 08-20-2008, 02:03 PM

Like I've said more than a few times, it isn't law enforcement officers that we should worry about; it's those in power over them that are making insane policy decisions, violating civil rights and creating criminals of law-abiding citizens just for the sake of the power to do so and the monetary rewards. (Yes, I count their standard income in that.) All levels of government have become so bloated and top heavy that they can no longer be held responsible by the citizens simply because you don't know who is doing what and they aren't going to tell you.
I read every day on this site and others what either candidate is or isn't going to do if they are elected. People, the real danger is from your local and state governments who have the power to revoke your rights immediately and keep them revoked until they are forced to restore them.
Fenty and Daley are walking proof of that.

Seabeescotty · 08-20-2008, 02:57 PM

Wish I hadn't read this, it just ruined an otherwise nice day. Oh well....

Guess we have to be even more vigilant, in order to protect our rights.

Windwalker · 08-20-2008, 03:06 PM

What can we the citizens do about it?
The burning to death of children in Waco couldn't get the BATF disbanded or even any of the agents charged so I don't hold much hope of anything happening given the attitude of Congress back then and now. Then there were the cases of the two snipers each of whom killed an unarmed woman holding a baby, one at Ruby Ridge and I would have to look up the location of the other one but the result was the same, neither sniper was charged with a crime. There seems to be no justice when the police officers commit the crime.

DWFan · 08-20-2008, 03:53 PM

The BATF and the DEA aren't police officers. The domestic law enforcement unit of the federal government is supposed to be the FBI. The DEA and the BATF are para-military units that can call upon any of the branches of the US military for assistance whenever they feel the need.
Getting back to the original post though...how are you "impersonating an officer" if you still have your commission and the power to arrest?

08-20-2008, 10:30 AM	#1
Mike Franklin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 1,276	Administrative Law This is the most dangerous assault on the three branches of Gov't that has ever occurred. It, for all practical purposes, does away with the 'checks and balances' of our Constitution. The way it works; The Legislature passes a Law but without specifics on how it should be enforced. It then gives the Enforcing Agency the ability to write regulations on how to enforce or apply the Law. The Agency then writes policies, laws, that it enforces to achieve the purpose of the Law. Here's an example. In Texas when you retire with enough years of service you remain a Commissioned LEO. You can carry a gun and even make arrests. Now 2 retired State Troopers were working a security type job using their retirement status as officers. The agency they worked for and retired from has the 'power to regulate' Security Guards. Based on regulations that the agency wrote themselves, they arrested the 2 Troopers and charged them with Impersonating a Peace Officer. State Law says that they are Officers???? The catch? The Agency receives tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars in licenses fees from the industry that they regulate. The industry does not want any completion from current or retired Officers. The 2 retired Officer are facing jail time for violating a policy written by an Agency not by any Legislative body. This stuff happens all the time. Very many of the enforcement actions taken by Federal Agencies, such as ATF, are based on Administrative ‘Laws’ that they write themselves. And you wonder how they get so much authority?? __________________ Aim real good we're nearly out of ammo.

08-20-2008, 10:42 AM	#2
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,048	It appears that there is no justice anymore,a shame. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

08-20-2008, 11:10 AM	#4
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,906	Yep, it is just the sort of business gets special treatment under the table that is the only true hallmark of our current governor's (Rick Perry) multiple re-elections to office. You have no idea how much I long for a real governor for our state. I know I am not alone. Just call me "sick of current Texas politics"

08-20-2008, 02:03 PM	#6
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 922 Blog Entries: 2	Like I've said more than a few times, it isn't law enforcement officers that we should worry about; it's those in power over them that are making insane policy decisions, violating civil rights and creating criminals of law-abiding citizens just for the sake of the power to do so and the monetary rewards. (Yes, I count their standard income in that.) All levels of government have become so bloated and top heavy that they can no longer be held responsible by the citizens simply because you don't know who is doing what and they aren't going to tell you. I read every day on this site and others what either candidate is or isn't going to do if they are elected. People, the real danger is from your local and state governments who have the power to revoke your rights immediately and keep them revoked until they are forced to restore them. Fenty and Daley are walking proof of that. Last edited by DWFan; 08-20-2008 at 02:12 PM.

08-20-2008, 02:57 PM	#7
Seabeescotty The ol' Coot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 4,567 Images: 18 Blog Entries: 1	Wish I hadn't read this, it just ruined an otherwise nice day. Oh well.... Guess we have to be even more vigilant, in order to protect our rights. __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge

08-20-2008, 10:49 AM	#3
woodster Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: High Desert, California Posts: 433	You have touched on the tip of the ice-berg my friend. I was going to do a post on 'Can we trust the FBI and ATF?' This is a subject that has legs. Excellent post! "An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lion led by a sheep."

08-20-2008, 11:23 AM	#5
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,144	Well yes. Look at drug laws. It took a Constitutional Amendment to ban all sales of alcohol. Now, many "controlled substance" laws are essentially created by the DEA and even if a state wants to legalize something, the DEA says they can't, when the states should have that right. I don't think I've seen a single person on this entire forum who supports the ATF, by and large. The question regarding the two retired LEOs is one of legislative heirarchy, I think. When laws conflict, what level takes precedence?' - Coeloptera

08-20-2008, 03:06 PM	#8
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,999	What can we the citizens do about it? The burning to death of children in Waco couldn't get the BATF disbanded or even any of the agents charged so I don't hold much hope of anything happening given the attitude of Congress back then and now. Then there were the cases of the two snipers each of whom killed an unarmed woman holding a baby, one at Ruby Ridge and I would have to look up the location of the other one but the result was the same, neither sniper was charged with a crime. There seems to be no justice when the police officers commit the crime. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it

08-20-2008, 03:53 PM	#9
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 922 Blog Entries: 2	The BATF and the DEA aren't police officers. The domestic law enforcement unit of the federal government is supposed to be the FBI. The DEA and the BATF are para-military units that can call upon any of the branches of the US military for assistance whenever they feel the need. Getting back to the original post though...how are you "impersonating an officer" if you still have your commission and the power to arrest? Last edited by DWFan; 08-20-2008 at 03:56 PM.