Seemed like the right thing to do at the time

PSLMAN · 09-05-2008, 07:24 PM

A few months ago I sold a rifle to a lady at work.
The original rear sight was long gone and a previous owner had installed a peep sight on the barrel.

I pointed this out to her and suggested she replace it with a pistol scope and make a scout rifle out of it.

I had planned on doing this myself since the factory sight is near impossible to find.

She seemed to understand what I was saying and bought the rifle. She and her husband are gun people and I thought all was well and good.

The other day she told me that she had been taken on the deal and her husband was very upset. The sight on the rifle was defective and couldn't be sighted in, (something I told her the day she bought it which is why I suggested the whole scout rifle idea.)

Her eyes glazed over at that point and I knew it was useless to continue talking. I mulled it over a while and told her I would refund her money.

She brought it to me yesterday with the sight broken and in a plastic bag, her husband was determined to zero the rifle and broke the sight in the process.

I gave her the money and brought the rifle home.

I try to be honest, I try to be a good person and I'm not trying to brag or anything, just saying how I feel.

I tried to do the right thing but it has made me feel bitter and resentful, does this make me a bad person?

Handgunner101 · 09-05-2008, 08:03 PM

I'd say you went above and beyond for taking it back. It's not how you feel, it's how you behave and conduct yourself despite having had your chain yanked. Of course if you sell it again, perhaps you should issue a receipt listing said defects...documenting the right thing never hurts.

The_Patriot · 09-05-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSLMAN

A few months ago I sold a rifle to a lady at work.
The original rear sight was long gone and a previous owner had installed a peep sight on the barrel.

I pointed this out to her and suggested she replace it with a pistol scope and make a scout rifle out of it.

I had planned on doing this myself since the factory sight is near impossible to find.

She seemed to understand what I was saying and bought the rifle. She and her husband are gun people and I thought all was well and good.

The other day she told me that she had been taken on the deal and her husband was very upset. The sight on the rifle was defective and couldn't be sighted in, (something I told her the day she bought it which is why I suggested the whole scout rifle idea.)

Her eyes glazed over at that point and I knew it was useless to continue talking. I mulled it over a while and told her I would refund her money.

She brought it to me yesterday with the sight broken and in a plastic bag, her husband was determined to zero the rifle and broke the sight in the process.

I gave her the money and brought the rifle home.

I try to be honest, I try to be a good person and I'm not trying to brag or anything, just saying how I feel.

I tried to do the right thing but it has made me feel bitter and resentful, does this make me a bad person?

I worked in food service for a couple years in high school. You just can't please some customers. But you still try. Others see it and come back when they see you're honest and provide good service. Just because your customer was clueless doesn't mean you didn't go above and beyond on your part. Hopefully others know you do this and it'll come back to you in the form or loyal and repetitive customers. You did good.

Handgunner101 · 09-05-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Patriot

I worked in food service for a couple years in high school. You just can't please some customers. But you still try. Others see it and come back when they see you're honest and provide good service. Just because your customer was clueless doesn't mean you went above and beyond on your part. Hopefully others know you do this and it'll come back to you in the form or loyal and repetitive customers. You did good.

Well said, doing the right thing is not only right, but it's good business as well. Technically he did the right thing twice, disclosing the problems with the firearm before the sale, and then giving the benefit of the doubt upon it's return. Even though this was a one on one sale with no worries of impact as there might be with a small business. However, even in a small business there's a limit. I've seen small gun shop owners literally kick folks out of their store for repeated instances such as this, and in full view of other customers. You can only do the right thing to the same folks once...maybe twice. Third strike and you're out.

White Rook · 09-05-2008, 09:18 PM

There is truth in the old saying "Nice Guys Finish Last". It's sad that honest people come out on the short end of the stick more often than not.

Mooseman684 · 09-05-2008, 09:50 PM

So they Buy a Used Gun....The husband Breaks the sight because he is not a gunsmith, and they Got a bad deal...What a Load of Crap....
You went way beyond your duty on this one. What kind of gun was it ?

PSLMAN · 09-05-2008, 09:57 PM

Thanks guys, I hope I didn't come across too whiny about this but for some reason it really has me feeling down.

The rifle itself is quite interesting, it's a Romanian single shot .22 based on the Mauser design.

It has the Mauser "flag type" safety and a heavy barrel. It is comparable in weight to a Mauser '98 and has a nice walnut stock.

The barrel has two grooves machined into it which start at the receiver and extend nearly eight inches. There are increments numbered 1-6 stamped in it as well.

It has some sort of crest stamped behind the ejection port and UMC CUGIR stamped in front of the ejection port.

Has anyone seen one of these before?

I will probably put a scope on it like I originally intended and in the future sell things through the gun shop.

Mooseman684 · 09-05-2008, 09:58 PM

A training rifle...How Much ???

PSLMAN · 09-05-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

A training rifle...How Much ???

I'm not sure it actually is a training rifle.
It might be some sort of competition rifle.

I will try to post pics of it tomorrow, my wife isn't here and I can't work the high tech camera we have.

TXplt · 09-05-2008, 10:07 PM

I think you went above and beyond by taking it back even though they had broken a piece off of it. Although this made the situation worse for you, at least you don't have to deal with a co-workers' animosity.

Your conscience was clear when you sold the rifle after informing her of its defects. As long as you had told her what was wrong with it as best you knew, you did more than the right thing (you could have just said "here you go"). She has no claims after that morally.

PSLMAN · 09-05-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXplt

I think you went above and beyond by taking it back even though they had broken a piece off of it. Although this made the situation worse for you, at least you don't have to deal with a co-workers' animosity.

Your conscience was clear when you sold the rifle after informing her of its defects. As long as you had told her what was wrong with it as best you knew, you did more than the right thing (you could have just said "here you go"). She has no claims after that morally.

Thanks, I appreciate that. When I was mulling it over the thing that kept going through my head was,
"how much is your reputation worth?"

Like I said earlier though the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Seven© · 09-05-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSLMAN

When I was mulling it over the thing that kept going through my head was,
"how much is your reputation worth?"

You were honest, I'll be honest. If I were in your position, it would depend on my relationship with the person as to whether or not I would have taken it back.

If it was a co-worker, friend, fellow church member, etc. I would have gave the money back. For the reason you stated. To save "reputation" and simply just to avoid a conflict.

Other than that, I would have told them they were SOL. I told them the problem, and they bought it "AS IS."

Mooseman684 · 09-05-2008, 11:00 PM

I believe it is this rifle...an M-69 Romanian Trainer...
Romanian M-69 .22LR Training Rifle
Rich

GlockMeister · 09-05-2008, 11:11 PM

I say you're a good person for buying it back, had you not worked with the wife, I'd of said you should of told them it was as is, especially seeing as how they broke it and did use it. I'd also say you shouldn't have sold it to anyone you work with. But live and hopefully learn.

I'd also say, this is why I NEVER SELL, DEAL WITH OR LOAN MONEY TO FRIENDS,FAMILY OR CO-WORKERS...

PSLMAN · 09-05-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

I believe it is this rifle...an M-69 Romanian Trainer...
Romanian M-69 .22LR Training Rifle
Rich

I have seen the M-69 trainer and this one is different.
It is heavier than the M-69 my friend has and is longer overall.

The serial number prefix is 1957, I'm not sure if that is year of manufacture or not.

I will try to post pics tomorrow.

tagurit · 09-06-2008, 12:03 AM

JMHO...You did the right thing, and I think you know that. Maybe the most important thing here is for you to let go of the resentment and bitterness you're feeling.They'll eat you up inside and those other people probably ain't even thinking abuot it anymore. I'm not trying to preach here, just hate to think a person with a good heart, such as yourself, might become calause(spelling?) because of some jerks actions which you have no control over. Keep doing what you know is right and know your adding to the goodness in this world in a big way, even if some people are too blind to see that.
And it sounds to me you wouldn't have any trouble finding someone who would love to have that gun, busted sight or not!

troy2000 · 09-06-2008, 01:12 AM

You might also consider the possibility that the husband is more to blame here than the gal you sold it to. If he actually broke a peep sight trying to zero a gun, he might be a bullheaded idiot. And stuck between what she might have remembered you saying vs her husband carrying on about how she was taken, it wouldn't be surprising if she wound up going with his version.

I'd try not to hold it against her and let it spoil any friendship you may have had, if I were you. But I'd also stay clear of the husband, just to avoid any temptation to purge the gene pool a little...

Big Dog · 09-06-2008, 06:31 AM

PSLMAN, the CUGIR has a small but loyal following among rimfire shooters. Check over on RimfireCentral - they have a group who like it, and may be able to suggest where to get the proper rear sight, or a good scope mount. My experience is that these type Eastern European rifles generally have an odd groove size, and standard rimfire rings may not fit.
The single-shot CUGIR has a good reputation, and was a lower-level competition rifle, not a trainer. It's worth investing some time and money into.

wunhunglo · 09-06-2008, 06:42 AM

If you sold it in the way of business or trade, then I believe you should have made sure it was "fit for purpose" before selling. But if you sold it as a private individual, then it is "buyer beware".

But to my mind, whichever way you traded it, you did the right thing by refunding her money and should be able to sleep soundly at night.

PSLMAN · 09-06-2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dog

PSLMAN, the CUGIR has a small but loyal following among rimfire shooters. Check over on RimfireCentral - they have a group who like it, and may be able to suggest where to get the proper rear sight, or a good scope mount. My experience is that these type Eastern European rifles generally have an odd groove size, and standard rimfire rings may not fit.
The single-shot CUGIR has a good reputation, and was a lower-level competition rifle, not a trainer. It's worth investing some time and money into.

Thank you!!!When I bought it I couldn't find any info about it. I will check this place out.

09-05-2008, 07:24 PM	#1
PSLMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rheas Mill, Arkansas. Posts: 259	Seemed like the right thing to do at the time A few months ago I sold a rifle to a lady at work. The original rear sight was long gone and a previous owner had installed a peep sight on the barrel. I pointed this out to her and suggested she replace it with a pistol scope and make a scout rifle out of it. I had planned on doing this myself since the factory sight is near impossible to find. She seemed to understand what I was saying and bought the rifle. She and her husband are gun people and I thought all was well and good. The other day she told me that she had been taken on the deal and her husband was very upset. The sight on the rifle was defective and couldn't be sighted in, (something I told her the day she bought it which is why I suggested the whole scout rifle idea.) Her eyes glazed over at that point and I knew it was useless to continue talking. I mulled it over a while and told her I would refund her money. She brought it to me yesterday with the sight broken and in a plastic bag, her husband was determined to zero the rifle and broke the sight in the process. I gave her the money and brought the rifle home. I try to be honest, I try to be a good person and I'm not trying to brag or anything, just saying how I feel. I tried to do the right thing but it has made me feel bitter and resentful, does this make me a bad person? Last edited by PSLMAN; 09-06-2008 at 05:47 PM. Reason: updated info with pics.

09-05-2008, 09:50 PM	#6
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,524 Images: 2	So they Buy a Used Gun....The husband Breaks the sight because he is not a gunsmith, and they Got a bad deal...What a Load of Crap.... You went way beyond your duty on this one. What kind of gun was it ? __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

09-05-2008, 09:58 PM	#8
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,524 Images: 2	A training rifle...How Much ??? __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

09-05-2008, 10:07 PM	#10
TXplt Conservative in Exile Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3,188 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	I think you went above and beyond by taking it back even though they had broken a piece off of it. Although this made the situation worse for you, at least you don't have to deal with a co-workers' animosity. Your conscience was clear when you sold the rifle after informing her of its defects. As long as you had told her what was wrong with it as best you knew, you did more than the right thing (you could have just said "here you go"). She has no claims after that morally. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

09-05-2008, 11:00 PM	#13
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,524 Images: 2	I believe it is this rifle...an M-69 Romanian Trainer... Romanian M-69 .22LR Training Rifle Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

09-05-2008, 08:03 PM	#2
Handgunner101 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Mi Posts: 115	I'd say you went above and beyond for taking it back. It's not how you feel, it's how you behave and conduct yourself despite having had your chain yanked. Of course if you sell it again, perhaps you should issue a receipt listing said defects...documenting the right thing never hurts.

09-05-2008, 09:18 PM	#5
White Rook Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: South West Ohio Posts: 436	There is truth in the old saying "Nice Guys Finish Last". It's sad that honest people come out on the short end of the stick more often than not.

09-05-2008, 09:57 PM	#7
PSLMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rheas Mill, Arkansas. Posts: 259	Thanks guys, I hope I didn't come across too whiny about this but for some reason it really has me feeling down. The rifle itself is quite interesting, it's a Romanian single shot .22 based on the Mauser design. It has the Mauser "flag type" safety and a heavy barrel. It is comparable in weight to a Mauser '98 and has a nice walnut stock. The barrel has two grooves machined into it which start at the receiver and extend nearly eight inches. There are increments numbered 1-6 stamped in it as well. It has some sort of crest stamped behind the ejection port and UMC CUGIR stamped in front of the ejection port. Has anyone seen one of these before? I will probably put a scope on it like I originally intended and in the future sell things through the gun shop.

09-05-2008, 11:11 PM	#14
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 6,257	I say you're a good person for buying it back, had you not worked with the wife, I'd of said you should of told them it was as is, especially seeing as how they broke it and did use it. I'd also say you shouldn't have sold it to anyone you work with. But live and hopefully learn. I'd also say, this is why I NEVER SELL, DEAL WITH OR LOAN MONEY TO FRIENDS,FAMILY OR CO-WORKERS... __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

09-06-2008, 12:03 AM	#16
tagurit Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island,NY Posts: 659	JMHO...You did the right thing, and I think you know that. Maybe the most important thing here is for you to let go of the resentment and bitterness you're feeling.They'll eat you up inside and those other people probably ain't even thinking abuot it anymore. I'm not trying to preach here, just hate to think a person with a good heart, such as yourself, might become calause(spelling?) because of some jerks actions which you have no control over. Keep doing what you know is right and know your adding to the goodness in this world in a big way, even if some people are too blind to see that. And it sounds to me you wouldn't have any trouble finding someone who would love to have that gun, busted sight or not! __________________ Lost time is never found again-B.Franklin

09-06-2008, 01:12 AM	#17
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,017 Images: 9	You might also consider the possibility that the husband is more to blame here than the gal you sold it to. If he actually broke a peep sight trying to zero a gun, he might be a bullheaded idiot. And stuck between what she might have remembered you saying vs her husband carrying on about how she was taken, it wouldn't be surprising if she wound up going with his version. I'd try not to hold it against her and let it spoil any friendship you may have had, if I were you. But I'd also stay clear of the husband, just to avoid any temptation to purge the gene pool a little... __________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr

09-06-2008, 06:31 AM	#18
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,412	PSLMAN, the CUGIR has a small but loyal following among rimfire shooters. Check over on RimfireCentral - they have a group who like it, and may be able to suggest where to get the proper rear sight, or a good scope mount. My experience is that these type Eastern European rifles generally have an odd groove size, and standard rimfire rings may not fit. The single-shot CUGIR has a good reputation, and was a lower-level competition rifle, not a trainer. It's worth investing some time and money into. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

09-06-2008, 06:42 AM	#19
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 2,004	If you sold it in the way of business or trade, then I believe you should have made sure it was "fit for purpose" before selling. But if you sold it as a private individual, then it is "buyer beware". But to my mind, whichever way you traded it, you did the right thing by refunding her money and should be able to sleep soundly at night.