We know that some of our (British) firearms rules are crazy but I didn't realise, until now, how crazy some of yours are!
We have the "normal" states like AZ, AK, NM, TX, (and even PA, though it's in the midst of NJ and the like), FL, southern states, etc--Shall issue CCW and relatively unrestrictive firearms laws--and then the "PR" --people's republic--states like NY, NJ, MD, DC, MA, IL, CA etc. There are truly some wacky and stupid gun laws which vary from state to state (my Taurus Judge is legal in TX but not in CA)--these serve to effectively arm the criminals and strip honest citizens of their self-defense. Legislators seem to think that words on paper can somehow deter deranged preditors or put fuel in the tanks or power in the lines (this is false, of course). It can get difficult when you're from a normal state and transiting a wacky state with a firearm--you could be unintentionally be breaking a host of firearms laws you'd have no reason to know. The solution, of course, is to get rid of the silly laws and go with the VT/AK model (unrestricted carry as long as you're not one of the prohibited folks).
It's kind of easy to see where some of this comes from--guns are scary to some folks because they're loud and go bang. There are also those who believe that you can avoid resposibility by blaming intangible things for the actions of people (of course this is false too). For some reason large groups of these people congregate in the aforementioned states (at least enough to elect wacky legislatures and GOV's). Not sure why.
Things are looking up somewhat with the recent SCOTUS decision, though.
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In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit -- John Galt
I suppose in that respect the UK is lucky in that the Firearms acts apply equally to the Nation as a whole and individual countries or regions cannot add or change the firearms rules.
Still Draconian & crazy though!
Yes. Each state is kind of its own entity under our Constitution. States are Constitutionally supposed to give "full faith and credit" to documents from another state (i.e. a drivers' license issued in FL is valid in WI). For guns, we of course ignore the Constitution in all respects (so a FL CCW isn't valid in CA or NJ--although most of the "normal" states have reciprocity with firearms carry permits--a FL permit is valid in TX and PA).
It does make it difficult because it's sensless. For normal Joes it's impossible to ever really figure out.
If you're interested, here's a link with some of the carry stuff
I suppose in that respect the UK is lucky in that the Firearms acts apply equally to the Nation as a whole and individual countries or regions cannot add or change the firearms rules.
Still Draconian & crazy though!
I'm not sure that's really lucky...it means there's no relief anywhere. At least here we can pick and choose; if firearms are important enough to someone, they can theoretically pack up and move to a state whose laws they agree with.
Of course, the reality is that most of us have ties to the state we're in that transcend the local firearms laws anyway. But it's nice to know the option is there...
I'm not sure that's really lucky...it means there's no relief anywhere. At least here we can pick and choose; if firearms are important enough to someone, they can theoretically pack up and move to a state whose laws they agree with.
Of course, the reality is that most of us have ties to the state we're in that transcend the local firearms laws anyway. But it's nice to know the option is there...
I suppose I meant lucky in the fact that we only have one set of rules to comply with.
Yeah most of us have ties to our place of domicile, and theoretically most Brits could move anywhere in Europe with ease but would we want to? So we either put up or pack up but putting up doesn't mean giving up without a fight.
I suppose I meant lucky in the fact that we only have one set of rules to comply with.
Yeah most of us have ties to our place of domicile, and theoretically most Brits could move anywhere in Europe with ease but would we want to? So we either put up or pack up but putting up doesn't mean giving up without a fight.
That's what we're in the middle of here now.
Seems like we get one every 4 or 8 years....
The latest Supreme Court decision will help.
Think this one should turn out favourably, though
__________________
In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit -- John Galt
yea i had the same exact problem with my card. me and my dad sent our applications in at the exact same time and he got his card and they said i did not send a picture with my application and i know **** well i did.. what you guys meen to tell me you dont have foid cards where some of yous live?
They dont have them in wisconsin where our cottage is :/
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"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."-George Mason
Up here in the people's republic of NJ you need a firearms ID card and a hand gun permit to purchase a pistol. You can purchase as many long guns as you want once you have a FID but you need a permit for each pistol (1 pistol/1permit 5 pistols/5 permits) and now some state politician is trying to limit handgun purchases to 1 per month. Every 6 months you have to submit a mental health check if your applying for a FID/Handgun permit. A FID is $5 + fingerprint fees ($65 I think) + mental health check ($25) = $95 + $2 per hand gun permit. Than it takes 30 days to get the FID/permits. Some towns jerk people around and take longer, which is illegal a decision has to be made in 30 days. This all has to be done through your local PD. Oh yeah I almost forgot the handgun permit is only good for 90 days, than you have to reapply.
why do you still live there????
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"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."-George Mason
packer, I grew up here in nj and now I have a job that I can't leave the state until I retire, I'm a firefighter. I have 12 years until I can retire and I am seriously considering leaving the state, even though I love it here. Everything is crazy here in NJ, car insurance highest in the nation, property taxes highest in the nation, 7% sales tax, corrupt politcians out the a$$, everything about firearms is regulated(magazine size, permits, a ton of firearms are banned because theyre scary looking). Right now the only thing that'll keep me here after I retire is my kids will still be young and in school.
in north carolina you need to get a permit from the sheriffs office to purchase a pistol. for long guns you have to pass a backround check, or a pistol permit is accaptable i think.
i bought my first gun about a week ago from a ffl. just a short form and a backround check.
packer, I grew up here in nj and now I have a job that I can't leave the state until I retire, I'm a firefighter. I have 12 years until I can retire and I am seriously considering leaving the state, even though I love it here. Everything is crazy here in NJ, car insurance highest in the nation, property taxes highest in the nation, 7% sales tax, corrupt politcians out the a$$, everything about firearms is regulated(magazine size, permits, a ton of firearms are banned because theyre scary looking). Right now the only thing that'll keep me here after I retire is my kids will still be young and in school.
awww that sucks
__________________
"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."-George Mason
Here in Illinois, Obama land, the FOID has been required for about 20 years. You can't buy ANY firearm without it (even C&R old stuff). It's issued by the Illinois State Police and is valid for a 5-year period and under our governor Blago, the FOID staff has been cut in half the last couple years, thus slowing down the process. I'm not sure if muzzle loaders fall into the "FOID-required" because I don't shoot one, but I -have- been required to show my FOID when handling an old smoke pole at a gun show.
Some fun facts from Obama land:
* It takes longer to get one renewed than it does to get your initial FOID.
* You can't even TOUCH a firearm at a gun show unless the dealer is first shown your FOID.
* You can't buy reloading components such as powder or primers. You CAN buy lead and empty brass, however. In other words, if it goes BOOM, an FOID is required.
* The FOID process has run WAY over its budget every year since it was implemented.
BUT, there is an advantage with the FOID. The gun owner in Illinois, not the individual guns themselves, are registered. This means that, unlike Missouri where a person has to get a letter from their local police chief that it's OK for them to get a (specific) handgun, with the FOID you can buy a handgun without any such letter of "permission".
Our state is financially broke, and has been for many years under gov Blago. They have CLOSED over 2 dozen state parks because there's no $$ to keep them open... and they just announced last week that more will be closed. There are boat ramps on state-run lakes that are closed, for Pete's sake. How much money does it take to keep a concrete boat ramp open??
IL is one of the 2 states (along with Wisconsin) that has no CCW provisions. When you travel with a firearm in your vehicle (pistol OR long gun) in the state, it must be unloaded and in a case specifically made for a firearm. Having your pistol stuffed in a clothes suitcase or briefcase, even if it's in your car's trunk, can get you arrested. However, with handguns, you CAN have a loaded magazine but it CANNOT be inserted into the pistol when in its case.
Just .02.
__________________ The Cataclysm Scroll is now available! www.gmillercompanies.com
Here in Illinois, Obama land, the FOID has been required for about 20 years. You can't buy ANY firearm without it (even C&R old stuff). It's issued by the Illinois State Police and is valid for a 5-year period and under our governor Blago, the FOID staff has been cut in half the last couple years, thus slowing down the process. I'm not sure if muzzle loaders fall into the "FOID-required" because I don't shoot one, but I -have- been required to show my FOID when handling an old smoke pole at a gun show.
Some fun facts from Obama land:
* It takes longer to get one renewed than it does to get your initial FOID.
* You can't even TOUCH a firearm at a gun show unless the dealer is first shown your FOID.
* You can't buy reloading components such as powder or primers. You CAN buy lead and empty brass, however. In other words, if it goes BOOM, an FOID is required.
* The FOID process has run WAY over its budget every year since it was implemented.
BUT, there is an advantage with the FOID. The gun owner in Illinois, not the individual guns themselves, are registered. This means that, unlike Missouri where a person has to get a letter from their local police chief that it's OK for them to get a (specific) handgun, with the FOID you can buy a handgun without any such letter of "permission".
Our state is financially broke, and has been for many years under gov Blago. They have CLOSED over 2 dozen state parks because there's no $$ to keep them open... and they just announced last week that more will be closed. There are boat ramps on state-run lakes that are closed, for Pete's sake. How much money does it take to keep a concrete boat ramp open??
IL is one of the 2 states (along with Wisconsin) that has no CCW provisions. When you travel with a firearm in your vehicle (pistol OR long gun) in the state, it must be unloaded and in a case specifically made for a firearm. Having your pistol stuffed in a clothes suitcase or briefcase, even if it's in your car's trunk, can get you arrested. However, with handguns, you CAN have a loaded magazine but it CANNOT be inserted into the pistol when in its case.
Just .02.
I'd highly disagree on what I changed to red font in your quote. Yes, I still had to show my FOID card, but I could still buy powder and or primers, both from a store or online, and did I might add, in an Illinois store, Bass Pro Shop as a matter of fact. As far as any other reloading components, I bought all my reloading equipment, off the internet and had it shipped to me, in Illinois. Yes, I still had to show my, or rather provide a copy of my FOID and drivers license, but again, I still bought reloading equipment...Maybe you miss spoke or meant something else? If not, you are mistaken on this. That is, unless the guys at Bass Pro Shop or the people at Midsouth reloading and supplies were wrong and screwed up in/for selling me powder and primers? Which I might add, I highly doubt...
And to add to the traveling while having a firearm in your vehicle, you also can't or aren't suppose to keep/store the ammunition with the firearm. If you have a magazine loaded, it's still to be kept separate from the firearm, same for rile as for handgun or revolver with removable cylinders or conversion cylinders, they can all be loaded, but as you said, must be stored separately. The ammunition is suppose to be stored in a separate lockable device, if there's enough room and it locks, a vehicles glove box will suffice. Most cops won't hassle you if the gun/s is in a locked case and in the car while the ammo is either locked in the trunk or visa versa.
What I hate and have a problem with most in regards to this, if you were to ever get car jacked, you have no way of preventing them from not only taking your vehicle, but also any firearms you may have with you. I wish they'd at least allow one or pass a right to carry while transporting your firearms. That's why whenever I go anywhere and my firearms are going with, I try and go with someone, and I never allow anything to be seen while I'm loading my vehicle up.
__________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms" - Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by GlockMeister; 09-10-2008 at 10:50 AM.
