the world ends wednesday

Coeloptera · 09-09-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packerfan2600

nah that asteroid is probably gonna miss.....but then again if it hits were screwed

No, no, no...I think he's talking about the Aztec calender.

- Coeloptera

LakerDad · 09-09-2008, 10:17 PM

I liked your posts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmer fudd

gosh that is so dumb they have said it several times that its gunna end only God knows when it will and has kept it so secret he wont even tell his own son i read that in the bible sorry to go holy on you guys but thats what i think so i realy dont worry about this stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathangdad

scientists as no one actually knows what will happen if the creation of a black hole either occurs or is approached.

If a black hole is actually created on some micro scale will it exist for a
a moment then cease to exist? If a black hole is actually created on some micro scale will it be stable and begin to suck in matter and light?

Well, whatever happens we can do nothing about it. It seems set to go.

Personally, I do not know what will happen but am glad to be a Christian.

Indeed, if Saved, no need to worry, right? Keeping the Faith.
GOD is good----all of the time!

TACAV · 09-09-2008, 10:31 PM

This whole collider thing is supposed to take about 30 days to reach the particle speeds to cause the black hole, the test starts tomarrow. We are ok for another month lol.

Coeloptera · 09-09-2008, 10:40 PM

I'm just waiting to see if Hawking wins his C-note.

He seems to do that a lot, make bets. There's a really funny one involving him, Kip Thorne, and a subscription to Penthouse, involving black holes - the bet, that is.

- Coeloptera

larmus · 09-09-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACAV

This whole collider thing is supposed to take about 30 days to reach the particle speeds to cause the black hole, the test starts tomarrow. We are ok for another month lol.

wooohoooo one more month. and i thought we were screwed.lol

Deersniper · 09-10-2008, 12:01 AM

Coleoptera, your one smart person. The govt is going have to come get you, you know too much. So, if we don't perish, can we throw all our garbage in it? Talking about a compactor. They could of at least gave us more notice. Who knows what they will do with it if it works.

DaTeacha · 09-10-2008, 08:15 AM

So Coel, since this collider has all this potential, why did they feel the SSC was needed? Or have advances in technology made this one eqwually capable and simultaneously possible to build with less money in a smaller space, using less energy, ooperating more efficiently etc.?

With the demise of the SSC project, I thought the search for the ultimate particle was pretty much wishful thinking, but it seems it goes on.

Like I said, I've been out of physics for some time now and haven't kept up with the advances. Life and its practical problems kind of got in the way of serious amounts of recreational thinking.

da Teacha

nathangdad · 09-10-2008, 08:21 AM

Beg to differ on the statement a black hole does not suck anything in.
What do you think is occurring at the event horizon?

LarryO1970 · 09-10-2008, 08:23 AM

okay, it is Wednesday. Will I be alive to see the evening news or what ?

nathangdad · 09-10-2008, 08:26 AM

Yes, the evening news will report it is still in the "runup" stage to the big experiments.

No matter what I am glad to be a Christian and I am praying for all of us.

LarryO1970 · 09-10-2008, 08:28 AM

... when are they actually supposed to conduct "the" experiment to test the "Big Bang" theory?

GlennM · 09-10-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

No, no, no...I think he's talking about the Aztec calender.

Ahem... That's the MAYAN calendar, Coel. Gotcha.

According to their calendar, December 21, 2012 is it. OR, they just ran out paper (or papyrus or whatever they wrote their stuff on).

nathangdad · 09-10-2008, 08:44 AM

About one month from now will move them into either the danger zone or the discovery zone.

This actually is a situation that could go bad.

I find it a bit disconcerting people can write about the qualities of mini black holes when no one has ever actually encountered one of them.
The safety factors for a mini black hole are, at this point, all theoretical.
If a mini black hole has infinite mass then why will it destabilize to nothingness? What will happen when a mini black hole, if it comes into being, contacts a molecule?

Of course this is one side of the coin. On the other side this device may not produce anything new. Approaching the speed of light is not being at the speed of light which has all sorts of Einsteinian inferences.

Anyway, I stand by my faith as a Christian and do not worry about the events of 30 days out into the future.

LarryO1970 · 09-10-2008, 08:48 AM

okay... so it will not really happen until about middle October. Thanks.

Coeloptera · 09-10-2008, 02:02 PM

Okay...gonna answer a few of these at once.

nathangdad, at the event horizon what happens is this, the gravitational force is greater than the acceleration equal to C, the speed of light. Thus, if anything crosses that point, it can't get back out. It's also stretched immensely due to tidal forces, torn up on a subatomic level and time in the local area stops. A black hole isn't like a whirlpool. It doesn't draw stuff in like that. It has gravity, same as any other object in the universe. If you get too close, you can fall in, but you have to get too close. They are perfectly safe as the correct distance, which isn't as far as many people think since again, gravity gets way weak over distance.

Our galaxy has a supermassive black hole in the center, it's not eating the galaxy. In fact, it seems to be cyclical. The x-ray jets caused by stuff falling in pushes other stuff away, once there's nothing to take in, it starts losing mass via Hawking radiation, once the jets stop, stuff can fall into the now-smaller hole again and the cycle continues. It seems to be part of how some galaxies properly form.

A black hole also doesn't have infinite mass, it has infinite density. We can calculate a hole's mass to an extent, or we can tell you the mass of a star that will eventually collapse into one. There's a certain threshold below which it can't maintain anymore, not enough mass. This is why micro black holes don't last, they're created by the energetic collisions producing incredible "compression" breaking down the normal states of a particle and, in crude terms, shoving the parts of it way closer than they should be. A proton, for instance, is made of quarks and a cloud of gluons. You cram the quarks too close together and the density ratchets up. Eventually, a critical threshold is crossed and the hole stops obeying purely Newtonian laws. But it needs to maintain that density...without enough original mass, it can't.

Most black holes are so large that the loss of energy/mass via Hawking radiation versus what they gain via background radiation is negligible, they'll last longer than we can predict into the future state of the universe, until the universe "cools" enough that there's less background radiation, but that's still being researched. But the little suckers?

Here's the math: Xaonon: Hawking Radiation Calculator

I put in 1 microgram, which is far, far larger than anything the LHC could create. The resultant hole would last for 8.407183e-44 seconds and have a surface area of 2.770613e-41 femtometers.

Way short and way small. Remember also that this will be happening inside as close to a true vacuum as we can make. There's nothing nearby to fall in anyway, it won't have time to cross any distance before it dissipates.

DaTeacha, as for the Superconducting Supercollider...

The LHC is 27 klicks around to the SSC's 87. The SSC could have reached 40 electron volts to the LHC's 14. In addition...well...the LHC is built to take advantage of the fact that the LEP (Large Electron-Positron Collider) was at CERN, too. They used the same tunnel.

Saved a fortune. The LEP was in use until 2000, the SSC was cancelled in 1993.

Real shame too. This stuff will come in handy later. People wonder how. The basic theories of electrons were discovered through the mid to late 1800s. That comes in awfully handy now, doesn't it?

Thanks GlennM, Mayan. Not my area, I'm afraid. Not big on South American history.

No super-compactor for us, Deersniper. Unless you can get your trash in there really, really, really fast.

- Coeloptera

wunhunglo · 09-10-2008, 02:32 PM

Only about 5 & half hours left of today (Wednesday) for me; so far it hasn't ended yet!

The_Patriot · 09-10-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coeloptera

Thanks GlennM, Mayan. Not my area, I'm afraid. Not big on South American history.

Apparently North America isn't your thing, either (Mayans lived in North American, not South America, unless I'm wrong).

I just couldn't resist...

Coeloptera · 09-10-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Patriot

Apparently North America isn't your thing, either (Mayans lived in North American, not South America, unless I'm wrong).

I just couldn't resist...

Buh?

Looks Central, at best. Past Mexico to me is South. Nyah.

On a serious note, they shared far more in common, culturally, with the deeper South Americans than with the Indians up here.

- Coeloptera

The_Patriot · 09-10-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coeloptera

Buh?

Looks Central, at best. Past Mexico to me is South. Nyah.

On a serious note, they shared far more in common, culturally, with the deeper South Americans than with the Indians up here.

- Coeloptera

From Wikipedia, and the way I remember it in school...much of it in Mexico.

I would agree with you on the culture. I was just bored and felt like posting...I wasn't trying to ding you...I just thought your remark was funny (on South America). I'm the only one laughing, though...oh well...
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Gary/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

riverrat · 09-10-2008, 03:09 PM

I dont much know about black holes or physics, but I know that the least these tomatoheads could do is wait til deer seasons over.

09-09-2008, 10:31 PM	#23
TACAV Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 757	This whole collider thing is supposed to take about 30 days to reach the particle speeds to cause the black hole, the test starts tomarrow. We are ok for another month lol. __________________ Zombies don't hold grudges, discriminate, or negotiate- Neither should you. -The Zen of Zombie-

09-10-2008, 08:21 AM	#28
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,906	Hello Coeloptera Beg to differ on the statement a black hole does not suck anything in. What do you think is occurring at the event horizon?

09-10-2008, 08:23 AM	#29
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 3,870	okay, it is Wednesday. Will I be alive to see the evening news or what ? __________________ If anybody asks, it must have been the "trigger actuator nut".....

09-10-2008, 08:26 AM	#30
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,906	Hello LarryO1970 Yes, the evening news will report it is still in the "runup" stage to the big experiments. No matter what I am glad to be a Christian and I am praying for all of us.

09-10-2008, 08:28 AM	#31
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 3,870	... when are they actually supposed to conduct "the" experiment to test the "Big Bang" theory? __________________ If anybody asks, it must have been the "trigger actuator nut".....

09-09-2008, 10:40 PM	#24
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,144	I'm just waiting to see if Hawking wins his C-note. He seems to do that a lot, make bets. There's a really funny one involving him, Kip Thorne, and a subscription to Penthouse, involving black holes - the bet, that is. - Coeloptera

09-10-2008, 12:01 AM	#26
Deersniper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,916	Coleoptera, your one smart person. The govt is going have to come get you, you know too much. So, if we don't perish, can we throw all our garbage in it? Talking about a compactor. They could of at least gave us more notice. Who knows what they will do with it if it works.

09-10-2008, 08:15 AM	#27
DaTeacha Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: near Funk, Ohio Posts: 510	So Coel, since this collider has all this potential, why did they feel the SSC was needed? Or have advances in technology made this one eqwually capable and simultaneously possible to build with less money in a smaller space, using less energy, ooperating more efficiently etc.? With the demise of the SSC project, I thought the search for the ultimate particle was pretty much wishful thinking, but it seems it goes on. Like I said, I've been out of physics for some time now and haven't kept up with the advances. Life and its practical problems kind of got in the way of serious amounts of recreational thinking. da Teacha

09-10-2008, 08:44 AM	#33
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,906	Hi LarryO1970 About one month from now will move them into either the danger zone or the discovery zone. This actually is a situation that could go bad. I find it a bit disconcerting people can write about the qualities of mini black holes when no one has ever actually encountered one of them. The safety factors for a mini black hole are, at this point, all theoretical. If a mini black hole has infinite mass then why will it destabilize to nothingness? What will happen when a mini black hole, if it comes into being, contacts a molecule? Of course this is one side of the coin. On the other side this device may not produce anything new. Approaching the speed of light is not being at the speed of light which has all sorts of Einsteinian inferences. Anyway, I stand by my faith as a Christian and do not worry about the events of 30 days out into the future.

09-10-2008, 08:48 AM	#34
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 3,870	okay... so it will not really happen until about middle October. Thanks. __________________ If anybody asks, it must have been the "trigger actuator nut".....

09-10-2008, 02:02 PM	#35
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,144	Okay...gonna answer a few of these at once. nathangdad, at the event horizon what happens is this, the gravitational force is greater than the acceleration equal to C, the speed of light. Thus, if anything crosses that point, it can't get back out. It's also stretched immensely due to tidal forces, torn up on a subatomic level and time in the local area stops. A black hole isn't like a whirlpool. It doesn't draw stuff in like that. It has gravity, same as any other object in the universe. If you get too close, you can fall in, but you have to get too close. They are perfectly safe as the correct distance, which isn't as far as many people think since again, gravity gets way weak over distance. Our galaxy has a supermassive black hole in the center, it's not eating the galaxy. In fact, it seems to be cyclical. The x-ray jets caused by stuff falling in pushes other stuff away, once there's nothing to take in, it starts losing mass via Hawking radiation, once the jets stop, stuff can fall into the now-smaller hole again and the cycle continues. It seems to be part of how some galaxies properly form. A black hole also doesn't have infinite mass, it has infinite density. We can calculate a hole's mass to an extent, or we can tell you the mass of a star that will eventually collapse into one. There's a certain threshold below which it can't maintain anymore, not enough mass. This is why micro black holes don't last, they're created by the energetic collisions producing incredible "compression" breaking down the normal states of a particle and, in crude terms, shoving the parts of it way closer than they should be. A proton, for instance, is made of quarks and a cloud of gluons. You cram the quarks too close together and the density ratchets up. Eventually, a critical threshold is crossed and the hole stops obeying purely Newtonian laws. But it needs to maintain that density...without enough original mass, it can't. Most black holes are so large that the loss of energy/mass via Hawking radiation versus what they gain via background radiation is negligible, they'll last longer than we can predict into the future state of the universe, until the universe "cools" enough that there's less background radiation, but that's still being researched. But the little suckers? Here's the math: Xaonon: Hawking Radiation Calculator I put in 1 microgram, which is far, far larger than anything the LHC could create. The resultant hole would last for 8.407183e-44 seconds and have a surface area of 2.770613e-41 femtometers. Way short and way small. Remember also that this will be happening inside as close to a true vacuum as we can make. There's nothing nearby to fall in anyway, it won't have time to cross any distance before it dissipates. DaTeacha, as for the Superconducting Supercollider... The LHC is 27 klicks around to the SSC's 87. The SSC could have reached 40 electron volts to the LHC's 14. In addition...well...the LHC is built to take advantage of the fact that the LEP (Large Electron-Positron Collider) was at CERN, too. They used the same tunnel. Saved a fortune. The LEP was in use until 2000, the SSC was cancelled in 1993. Real shame too. This stuff will come in handy later. People wonder how. The basic theories of electrons were discovered through the mid to late 1800s. That comes in awfully handy now, doesn't it? Thanks GlennM, Mayan. Not my area, I'm afraid. Not big on South American history. No super-compactor for us, Deersniper. Unless you can get your trash in there really, really, really fast. - Coeloptera

09-10-2008, 02:32 PM	#36
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 2,004	Only about 5 & half hours left of today (Wednesday) for me; so far it hasn't ended yet!

09-10-2008, 03:09 PM	#40
riverrat Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: central tx Posts: 114	I dont much know about black holes or physics, but I know that the least these tomatoheads could do is wait til deer seasons over. __________________ I hear voices........and they dont like you.