the world ends wednesday

[larmus]

found this today:

Boon or doom? Collider stirs debate - LHC - MSNBC.com

so its official, s%!t hits the fan tomarrow. are you prepared? if the link doesnt work we wont have to worry about it anymore.

a supercollider to produce blackholes is they article. microscopic blackholes at that. startrek at its finest.

[Death Metal]

no the end happens something between December 23-31 2012.

[wunhunglo]

Make your minds up girls; as soon as I know a definite date, I'm gonna borrow as much cash as possible & party, party, party!

PS my computer still worked at the turn of the century!

[Coeloptera]

Here's another link: FOXNews.com - Countdown Nears End for Start-Up of 'Big Bang Machine' - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News

It will be awesome. Hawking has $100.00 on not seeing a Higgs boson in the first collision (which won't happen for a few weeks). He also stated that if it does produce micro black holes and they have the properties he's predicted, he's a shoe-in for a Nobel Prize.

"Someone will spot a light ray coming out of the Indian Ocean during the night and no one will be able to explain it, retired Professor Otto Roessler told London's Mail on Sunday. "Very soon the whole planet will be eaten in a magnificent scenario — if you could watch it from the moon. A Biblical Armageddon. Even cloud and fire will form, as it says in the Bible."

Just cause you have a degree don't make you smart. Otto's a biochemist, not a particle physicist. The thing he doesn't understand, amusingly, is Hawking Radiation. See, black holes can lose mass and dissipate. Micro ones won't last very long - there are more energetic collisions going on in the solar system already, so if they were dangerous, we'd have seen them by now. If the LHC produces micro black holes, it would be awesome because then we could directly measure Hawking Radiation as they dissipate. But it's not likely the early runs will produce them anyway.

Check this older article: Phys. Rev. Lett. 87 (2001): Savas Dimopoulos and Greg Landsberg - Black Holes at the...

"If the scale of quantum gravity is near TeV, the CERN Large Hadron Collider will be producing one black hole (BH) about every second. The decays of the BHs into the final states with prompt, hard photons, electrons, or muons provide a clean signature with low background. The correlation between the BH mass and its temperature, deduced from the energy spectrum of the decay products, can test Hawking’s evaporation law and determine the number of large new dimensions and the scale of quantum gravity."

So if we're lucky we'll get them. This knowledge will come in very handy in humanity's future.

I swear, some people get their physics knowledge from Disney movies.

- Coeloptera

[stalebiscuit]

wasnt the world suppose to end a million time before to?

ahh who cares, if it ends, ohh well

[nathangdad]

scientists as no one actually knows what will happen if the creation of a black hole either occurs or is approached.

If a black hole is actually created on some micro scale will it exist for a
a moment then cease to exist? If a black hole is actually created on some micro scale will it be stable and begin to suck in matter and light?

Well, whatever happens we can do nothing about it. It seems set to go.

Personally, I do not know what will happen but am glad to be a Christian.

[larmus]

my theoretical-physic-based-scientific-educated mind is very limited so help me here? i thought black holes were formed by the collapsing of a star like our sun. and the colliding of two atoms is akin to splitting an atom like a nuclear bomb, but produces radiation instead of the big boom effect.

[TXplt]

They were worried about this type of cataclysm when the first A-bomb was detonated at Alamogordo (i.e. atmosphere on fire). It didn't happen. We've just advanced to the subatomic particle world for our doomsday theories with advancing technology.

Larmus, black holes are created when a gravitational force (we really don't understand gravity all that well, despite some claims to the contrary) is so strong it won't allow electromagnetic radiation (heat and light, among other things) to escape. In the universe, this is usually created when stars collapse in on themselves, creating very densely packed "stuff" -- think of the earth collapsing to something the size of a baseball or golf ball. The collapsing occurs due to some involved fizziks, but basically the atoms in the keyboard you're typing on are pretty spread out with alot of empty space between them. They don't like to be together; electrical repulsion keeps them apart. Neutrons have no electrical charge, so you can pack them in really close together; think of packing a bunch of these in to the point the gravitational force of them exceeds the electrical repulsion of all the matter around it (this is hard to do--fusion kinda works on this principle to make helium out of hydrogen). You would then have a "black hole" which tends to suck more stuff in, making it denser and denser, essentially occuring in a viscious circle (kind of like "gun free" shooting galleries and more gun control). Black holes don't have to be hugely massive--it's the gradient of the density that's important (i.e. the density of a black hole goes from zero to very high--infinite--at the center--kind of like a self-sustaining powerful trash compactor only the center compacts in on itself due to gravitational forces and tends to pull other stuff in when it gets to a critical distance.

Thing is, our concept of the atom isn't really real; it's a model. Although the atom contains 3 primary particles in our model: Proton, Neutron, and Electron, each of these are made up of other stuff (in the case of the Neutron, "quarks", which are made up of heaven knows what).

All you really need for a "black hole" is a mass of matter packed so tight that light (electromagnetic radiation) can't get out of it. That's what folks are worried about in this case; that subatomic matter gets slammed so hard together it makes a minature black hole which gets bigger and sucks the world in. It's fueled by our total lack of knowledge of how gravity actually works (and when we get this, there's a significant chance we could use it for rapid space travel), as well as man's smugness of how much he thinks he can influence and understand the natural world around him.

In practice, I believe there's little or no risk of this happening (it goes the way of the sound "barrier," etc.--also, when matter is destroyed or changed into energy, the vacuum around the atom doesn't "suck in" the world). The kind of stuff they're doing in the collider occurs all over the universe; so I would suspect there are black holes of some sort all over the universe (think this is where my socks and money goes sometimes).

Bottom line: I woulnd't max out the credit cards quite yet.

[Midas]

This too shall pass............

[nathangdad]

collapse of massive solar bodies such as a star.

However, this device is moving into a range of power and experimental
physics in which the creation or near creation of a micro black hole
is one possible outcome of the experiments.

So, a risk does occur.

[dmwphoto]

Originally Posted by TXplt

It's fueled by our total lack of knowledge of how gravity actually works (and when we get this, there's a significant chance we could use it for rapid space travel), as well as man's smugness of how much he thinks he can influence and understand the natural world around him.

Rumors are that gravity is because the world sucks.
I do not buy it tho.....

[DaTeacha]

It has been too long since I did anything with "fizziks", too. Help me out here -- What is Hawking Radiation? How does a black hole lose mass? If it's converted to energy, how does it get out? If it doesn't get out or is not converted to energy, where does it go?

And now the big one -- Is this thing going to send out gravity waves that will screw up the detectors that have been sitting around for so long waiting for one to come by?

[Seven©]

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

...as soon as I know a definite date, I'm gonna borrow as much cash as possible & party, party, party!

I'm with you. Shoot me a PM when SHTF.

[CalifgirlinOk]

So if I believe this then I don't need to clean my house tomorrow? I'll just sit around and have a few drinks instead and wait for it to happen...

[The_Patriot]

Well, at least the Cowboys had an undefeated season then...

[Coeloptera]

Originally Posted by nathangdad

collapse of massive solar bodies such as a star.

However, this device is moving into a range of power and experimental
physics in which the creation or near creation of a mico black hole
is one possible outcome of the experiments.

So, a risk does occur.

Not really. See, the thing about a black hole is, it doesn't "suck" anything in. It exerts no force aside from typical gravity which, at subatomic scale, is a little nothing force. It is far less powerful than the strong and weak nuclear forces, and electromagnetism.

Those forces are far, far stronger than the gravity produced by a micro black hole right up until you're pretty much touching the hole. The relative distances between atoms prevent anything from really touching the hole, or at least, more than a literal handful of atoms, which won't be enough to stop it from dissipating.

Here's a very basic rundown of Hawking radiation and how a black hole loses mass.

In space, by which I mean space-time, there is a sort of "background energy". A vacuum isn't really empty as such. it is of conventional matter, but you get what are called "virtual particle" pairs. Think of it this way, from the background, particle/antiparticle pairs are forming and nearly instantly annihilating each other. This leaves the net sum energy of local space essentially constant.

But near a black hole, an object that something which passes the event horizon cannot escape, things are sometimes different. Sometimes one of the pair crosses the event horizon upon creation and the other particle, now bereft of a partner, can fly off on its own. In essence, this "steals" energy from local space-time where the hole is. The hole loses energy which is synonymous with mass in this sense.

A very small black hole cannot take in enough new mass quickly enough to counteract this effect, and will lose energy until it dissipates completely. Matter has not been created or destroyed, merely converted from the energy captured within the hole.

A micro scale black hole has a very short time to exist. Odds are, the first virtual particle it captures will be its last. Losing that much energy will mean it's no longer at the critical density threshold (above Plank's number) to maintain its event horizon.

This is all very simplified but that's the basic idea.

As for detectors, you need to understand something about the 4 Fundamental Forces.

Gravity is weak. Over distance, gravity gets weaker...gravitational force is inversely proportional to distance. basically, you get further away, gravity gets weaker. Heck, objects can be in stable orbits around black holes at the right distance.

A micro scale black hole's gravity is staggeringly weak at pretty much any distance from it.

Here's an example. You've seen fridge magnets? A simple fridge magnet, and the electromagnetic field that accompanies it, is stronger than the gravity of the entire Earth over a short distance. Otherwise it wouldn't stick to the fridge against gravity's pull. Gravity's big deal is that while it gets weak with distance, it still exerts at least some force over vast distances. If you emptied the universe out except for two marbles at opposite ends...eventually they would be drawn towards each other.

This is more evidence towards the Big Bang. Since the other galaxies are moving away from us, something must have flung them out with a force greater than gravity which tries to pull them back together.

- Coeloptera

[elmer fudd]

gosh that is so dumb they have said it several times that its gunna end only God knows when it will and has kept it so secret he wont even tell his own son i read that in the bible sorry to go holy on you guys but thats what i think so i realy dont worry about this stuff

[Windwalker]

If it happens, so be it. I am old, tired, disheartened, and ready to go.

[billy]

The Nine Billion Names of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Packerfan2600]

Originally Posted by Death Metal

no the end happens something between December 23-31 2012.

nah that asteroid is probably gonna miss.....but then again if it hits were screwed