CYA at work (the bailout)

DWFan · 10-05-2008, 01:39 AM

Ok folks, here we go. They're already saying the bailout isn't going to work until the housing market stabilizes with lower prices. But wait; was the bailout supposed to stabilize the market by having the taxpayer basically "guarantee" the bad debts and thus make the banks more secure and free up the credit flow?

For bailout to work, housing market needs to mend - Yahoo! News

In plain English, as best I can figure, the American taxpayer just ok'd spending 700 billion (and more) to do something that the market had to do on its own to begin with and would have if left alone.

GlockMeister · 10-05-2008, 01:43 AM

Even I knew that. lol Most Americans and I'm sure you as well knew that.

Welcome to Socialism.

Mooseman684 · 10-05-2008, 01:56 AM

If anybody believed that the Pork Laden Bailout Bill was going to work...
I have a Rare INVISIBLE Mosin For Sale....1 of a kind...1 million dollars !
Pictured Below v

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
Rich

Seabeescotty · 10-05-2008, 09:28 AM

Why is it, the so called representatives don't mirror the feelings of the people they are supposed to be representing?

Windwalker · 10-05-2008, 04:54 PM

That's one nice looking rifle Mooseman.
Seebee, our elected representatives haven't listened to their constituents in so many years that they no longer think they have to.Vote out the incumbents in 2008. This would get rid of a bunch of anti-rights people now and scare the heck out of those facing reelection next time.

Deersniper · 10-05-2008, 05:13 PM

That's to give them enough time to transfer it into their Swiss accounts. The people in govt aren't true Americans, that's why. They have been compromised and blackmailed or threatened.

The American dream, you have to be asleep to believe it.

YankeeSpirit76 · 10-05-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWFan

Ok folks, here we go. They're already saying the bailout isn't going to work until the housing market stabilizes with lower prices. But wait; was the bailout supposed to stabilize the market by having the taxpayer basically "guarantee" the bad debts and thus make the banks more secure and free up the credit flow?

For bailout to work, housing market needs to mend - Yahoo! News

In plain English, as best I can figure, the American taxpayer just ok'd spending 700 billion (and more) to do something that the market had to do on its own to begin with and would have if left alone.

" The American tax payer just OKs spending 700 billion"

DW, that's the beef I've had about this all along. The American tax payer didn't OK squat! "We the people said NO! " But they (politicians) said tough s*** to us and passed it anyway. In my opinion, when "we the people" are just ignored, we have a run away, illegitimate government that needs to go.

YankeeSpirit76 · 10-05-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

Why is it, the so called representatives don't mirror the feelings of the people they are supposed to be representing?

Ahhh! Thank you Scotty! I'm wondering why no one else seems to see this!
We have just been blown-off by our government. They no longer listen to, take orders from, or pay any attention to us except the few bones they're willing to throw us every time they're up for election.

They just heard from us like never before ,in huge and angry numbers saying NO! and STILL they just ignored us and voted the way they wanted to, or were told to by their party superiors. What we told them meant absolutely nothing! The Colonists of old would have gathered up their weapons and taken to the streets by now.

Rave · 10-05-2008, 07:16 PM

S.O.S.

DWFan · 10-05-2008, 08:55 PM

Agreed, YankeeSpirit76. The citizens didn't approve it; the Senate created it, the House approved it and Bush breathed life into it.

Cyrano · 10-05-2008, 09:44 PM

If the damyankee gummint wants to stabilize the housing market, this one thing will do it. Apply it to primary residences only, though; I do not especially care what happens to speculators who buy houses to flip them, or to people who bought vacation homes.

Require all banks to renegotiate their adjustable rate mortgages that they used to "finance" this subprime mess to 30 year fixed rate mortgages at 4%.

This will do a couple of different things.

1. It gets those bad mortgage loans off the books. Maybe the banks get a one-time write-off or some such as an incentive to play.

2. It keeps people in their homes instead of dumping them into the street. This reduces the homeless problem, reduces the crime problem, and keeps neighborhoods and property developments from turning into squalid pits with tankiing home values (see Guiliani's Window Box Theory of Crime Prevention).

3. It does not torpedo credit for seven or more years, thereby making it impossible for people who can't make the nut to rebuild their lives.

4. It cuts foreclosure rates back to normal. Most people who get mortgages can afford a 4% 30 year fixed rate mortgage.

5. Instead of losing money on mortgages gone bad, the banks will still make money on mortgages. Nowhere near as much as they thought they were going to make, but they won't be hemorrhaging money either. At least they will be operating in the black, and it should slow or stop the nightmare of bank takeovers and mergers that have the potential to leave us with one or possibly two Omnibanks. I think we can all see what a bad situation that would be.

As a sidebar issue, I feel ARMs ought to be outlawed because they prey on the ignorant and the poor who might not be able to pass the criteria for a standard fixed rate mortgage that requires 20% down to buy a home.

This bailout that passed Congress, which Bush will likely sign, pork and all, does at least slow down if not stop cold the Wall Street meltdown. But I do wish the clowns that we elected to represent our interest in Congress would stop and think about the people whose interests they are supposed to have at heart, and not just the interests of their millionaire campaign contributors.

TXplt · 10-05-2008, 09:54 PM

I believe this "bailout" package will only serve to give time for the politicians and their kampaign kash friends to kash out, and try to get the meltdown on the other side of the election. It'll also kover the tracks of our kongress and klinton, barney, chucky, barry, et al with their liberal lending policy. The market WILL correct; there's no way to stop it. The only thing this does is ensure we'll be getting a 1 Trillion dollar bill. It's sickening when we think of where else we coulda spent this $$$. We could have been energy independent.

"Freeing up kredit" -- yeah, right. What a great deal; we can now make 700 billion dollars more of bad loans

ArkansasHunter · 10-05-2008, 10:08 PM

There wwas a lot of Pork attached to this bill too !!! Those crooked SomBeeches !!!!

Cyrille · 10-05-2008, 10:15 PM

"These are the times that try men's souls, the summer soldier and sunshine patriot will, in this crsis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands for it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."----- So people let's all get to the polls on November 4th and vote those who would shackle us and our childrens' childrens', children with a dept that will streach to eternity !and perhaps, just perhaps we can force the "fat cats of both Washington and Wall Street the shoulder the responseability for their own actions!

Windwalker · 10-06-2008, 08:39 AM

Reelect NO incumbents in 2008. Put new faces in the House and Senate.

YankeeSpirit76 · 10-06-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Reelect NO incumbents in 2008. Put new faces in the House and Senate.

I absolutely agree. These jerks need to be reminded from time to time who's the boss and who's the employee.

YankeeSpirit76 · 10-06-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

There wwas a lot of Pork attached to this bill too !!! Those crooked SomBeeches !!!!

They just don't learn do they A.H.? They just stole 700 billion dollars from us and look what the first thing they do with it....pile on the pork!

Bitmap · 10-06-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

If anybody believed that the Pork Laden Bailout Bill was going to work...
I have a Rare INVISIBLE Mosin For Sale....1 of a kind...1 million dollars !
Pictured Below v

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
Rich

Have you ever tried to get that through airport security?

Bitmap · 10-06-2008, 01:37 PM

The two main purposes for the $700+billion mess are:

1. Expand the power and scope of the federal government. Tin foil hat on - How long before the government will use mortgages as a way to convince people to live in certain places, or not live in other places? I've heard a lot of complaining about folks living on the coast and in flood plains. Well, what if home mortgages were almost impossible to obtain in those areas? Problem solved, and it would also be a lot easier for friends of the high and mighty to get inexpensive vacation homes in those areas - in foil hat off.

2. Keep the sheep from panicking for as long as possible. It doesn't matter if the so-called bailout actually does anything as long as people are convinced it does.

Girlgun · 10-06-2008, 06:12 PM

... that's a very thoughtful post, bitmap: using the bailout as leverage for more control and adding more regulations in areas that might normally be challenged. You know, the parallels to the Great Depression are really significant. America has been a much more regulated country since Roosevelt. One could argue that he got us out of the Depression, but certainly, it was a different country after that. What will America be when the political and economic dust settles?

10-05-2008, 01:39 AM	#1
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 922 Blog Entries: 2	CYA at work (the bailout) Ok folks, here we go. They're already saying the bailout isn't going to work until the housing market stabilizes with lower prices. But wait; was the bailout supposed to stabilize the market by having the taxpayer basically "guarantee" the bad debts and thus make the banks more secure and free up the credit flow? For bailout to work, housing market needs to mend - Yahoo! News In plain English, as best I can figure, the American taxpayer just ok'd spending 700 billion (and more) to do something that the market had to do on its own to begin with and would have if left alone. Last edited by DWFan; 10-05-2008 at 01:41 AM.

10-05-2008, 01:43 AM	#2
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 6,257	Even I knew that. lol Most Americans and I'm sure you as well knew that. Welcome to Socialism. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

10-05-2008, 01:56 AM	#3
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,524 Images: 2	If anybody believed that the Pork Laden Bailout Bill was going to work... I have a Rare INVISIBLE Mosin For Sale....1 of a kind...1 million dollars ! Pictured Below v .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........ Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

10-05-2008, 09:28 AM	#4
Seabeescotty The ol' Coot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 4,567 Images: 18 Blog Entries: 1	Why is it, the so called representatives don't mirror the feelings of the people they are supposed to be representing? __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge

10-05-2008, 04:54 PM	#5
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,999	That's one nice looking rifle Mooseman. Seebee, our elected representatives haven't listened to their constituents in so many years that they no longer think they have to.Vote out the incumbents in 2008. This would get rid of a bunch of anti-rights people now and scare the heck out of those facing reelection next time. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it

10-05-2008, 05:13 PM	#6
Deersniper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,916	That's to give them enough time to transfer it into their Swiss accounts. The people in govt aren't true Americans, that's why. They have been compromised and blackmailed or threatened. The American dream, you have to be asleep to believe it.

10-05-2008, 07:16 PM	#9
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,048	S.O.S. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

10-05-2008, 08:55 PM	#10
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 922 Blog Entries: 2	Agreed, YankeeSpirit76. The citizens didn't approve it; the Senate created it, the House approved it and Bush breathed life into it.

10-05-2008, 09:44 PM	#11
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 2,990	If the damyankee gummint wants to stabilize the housing market, this one thing will do it. Apply it to primary residences only, though; I do not especially care what happens to speculators who buy houses to flip them, or to people who bought vacation homes. Require all banks to renegotiate their adjustable rate mortgages that they used to "finance" this subprime mess to 30 year fixed rate mortgages at 4%. This will do a couple of different things. 1. It gets those bad mortgage loans off the books. Maybe the banks get a one-time write-off or some such as an incentive to play. 2. It keeps people in their homes instead of dumping them into the street. This reduces the homeless problem, reduces the crime problem, and keeps neighborhoods and property developments from turning into squalid pits with tankiing home values (see Guiliani's Window Box Theory of Crime Prevention). 3. It does not torpedo credit for seven or more years, thereby making it impossible for people who can't make the nut to rebuild their lives. 4. It cuts foreclosure rates back to normal. Most people who get mortgages can afford a 4% 30 year fixed rate mortgage. 5. Instead of losing money on mortgages gone bad, the banks will still make money on mortgages. Nowhere near as much as they thought they were going to make, but they won't be hemorrhaging money either. At least they will be operating in the black, and it should slow or stop the nightmare of bank takeovers and mergers that have the potential to leave us with one or possibly two Omnibanks. I think we can all see what a bad situation that would be. As a sidebar issue, I feel ARMs ought to be outlawed because they prey on the ignorant and the poor who might not be able to pass the criteria for a standard fixed rate mortgage that requires 20% down to buy a home. This bailout that passed Congress, which Bush will likely sign, pork and all, does at least slow down if not stop cold the Wall Street meltdown. But I do wish the clowns that we elected to represent our interest in Congress would stop and think about the people whose interests they are supposed to have at heart, and not just the interests of their millionaire campaign contributors. Last edited by Cyrano; 10-05-2008 at 09:47 PM.

10-05-2008, 09:54 PM	#12
TXplt Conservative in Exile Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3,188 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	I believe this "bailout" package will only serve to give time for the politicians and their kampaign kash friends to kash out, and try to get the meltdown on the other side of the election. It'll also kover the tracks of our kongress and klinton, barney, chucky, barry, et al with their liberal lending policy. The market WILL correct; there's no way to stop it. The only thing this does is ensure we'll be getting a 1 Trillion dollar bill. It's sickening when we think of where else we coulda spent this $$$. We could have been energy independent. "Freeing up kredit" -- yeah, right. What a great deal; we can now make 700 billion dollars more of bad loans __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

10-05-2008, 10:08 PM	#13
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,984	There wwas a lot of Pork attached to this bill too !!! Those crooked SomBeeches !!!!

10-05-2008, 10:15 PM	#14
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,905	"These are the times that try men's souls, the summer soldier and sunshine patriot will, in this crsis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands for it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."----- So people let's all get to the polls on November 4th and vote those who would shackle us and our childrens' childrens', children with a dept that will streach to eternity !and perhaps, just perhaps we can force the "fat cats of both Washington and Wall Street the shoulder the responseability for their own actions! Last edited by Cyrille; 10-05-2008 at 10:17 PM.

10-06-2008, 08:39 AM	#15
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,999	Reelect NO incumbents in 2008. Put new faces in the House and Senate. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it

10-06-2008, 01:37 PM	#19
Bitmap Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 88	The two main purposes for the $700+billion mess are: 1. Expand the power and scope of the federal government. Tin foil hat on - How long before the government will use mortgages as a way to convince people to live in certain places, or not live in other places? I've heard a lot of complaining about folks living on the coast and in flood plains. Well, what if home mortgages were almost impossible to obtain in those areas? Problem solved, and it would also be a lot easier for friends of the high and mighty to get inexpensive vacation homes in those areas - in foil hat off. 2. Keep the sheep from panicking for as long as possible. It doesn't matter if the so-called bailout actually does anything as long as people are convinced it does.

10-06-2008, 06:12 PM	#20
Girlgun Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: rural, farm Posts: 145	... that's a very thoughtful post, bitmap: using the bailout as leverage for more control and adding more regulations in areas that might normally be challenged. You know, the parallels to the Great Depression are really significant. America has been a much more regulated country since Roosevelt. One could argue that he got us out of the Depression, but certainly, it was a different country after that. What will America be when the political and economic dust settles?