Mall Shooting...

[Bitmap]

Originally Posted by SightNSqueeze

All that's needed to stop this "gun free zone" nonsense is a successful suit against a gun free business where a CCW patron is killed or injured because he/she had to leave the weapon in the car and the business owner didn't protect the unarmed patron. Maybe it will happen soon enough if our courts aren't packed with leftist judges.

The problem with this is that most people that carry simply won't go in places that are posted. I, for one, would not volunteer my family as plaintiffs for this kind of suit.

[jackar]

Quote: "In my opinion, "problematic" teens/adults are everywhere."

Indeed they are. More than you think. Would you step into the ring fully intending to follow the Marquis of Queensbury rules while your opponent had a sheath knife in his trunks and brass knucks on his hands? Concealed is concealed. If this offends your sense of propriety, the alternative is simply don't go to the mall. And this may be the wisest alternative. As Elmer Keith said, "If you want to avoid being killed in a gun fight, don't get into a gunfight." Jack

[Todd Bayliss]

I think I see a trend developing:
Knoxville Mall-shooting-owned by Simon Properties
Westroad Mall (Omaha,NE)-shooting-owned by Simon Properties
Tacoma Mall-shooting-owned by Simon Properties
Trolley Square (Salt Lake City)-shooting-formerly owned by...you guessed it...Simon.

It seems to me that Simon Properties should be banned from mall ownership due to the marked increase in the likelihood of being shot in their malls. Could this be perhaps because Simon bans guns at all of their properties? They've been made aware of this trend before:
Simon Properties Letter

[SightNSqueeze]

Originally Posted by MrsS

Funny that you should read the comments SNS: As in most cities in this country, Knoxville is pretty much "labeled" into "east" & "west"...with west Knoxville being the "ritzy" side of town & the eastside-well you get what I mean.

Like anywhere else, Knoxville Center Mall sits in a very diverse area, compromised of different cultural & economic backgrounds, plus its easier to get to. Go to the west side of town, where they have "nicer" malls, etc. is like going through a lion infested safari! Traffic is gosh-awful & bottle necked constantly!!! The main freeway is always jammed (especially now with one of our major freeways closed through downtown).

In my opinion, "problematic" teens/adults are everywhere....from the richest cities to the poorest towns. "Labeling" areas is not going to solve a thing.

Mrs.S,
Not being familiar with Knoxville, I read the article and the comments believing that Knoxville readers were better informed than I am. Apparently, you too are better informed. While I don't discount that criminal activity is everywhere, some areas are certainly more prone to certain types of crime than others.

I live on a developing inter-coastal island near Beaufort, SC in relatively peaceful Beaufort County on the southern coast of South Carolina with Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA fifty miles on either direction of us. The northern part of Beaufort County is populated by military personnel who may raise a little hell, but generally don't commit crimes, and "traditional" retirees who like a quiet lifestyle. Our crime problem is usually limited to narcotics crimes in the larger, more rural intercoastal islands where there is a mix of migrant farm workers and locals. The Southern part of our county; separated by Port Royal Sound, has a little more money, more congestion, and more crime against persons and property, especially at large shopping and hotel districts in and around Hilton Head; still tame by national standards, but more noticeable than our northern part of the county none-the-less.

Basically speaking, criminals will go where the most profit can be gained, and malls are certainly on their list. My argument is that people everywhere should be allowed to either defend themselves or be given adequate and immediate armed protection. Though I can carry a concealed weapon almost everywhere in my state, I can not carry a CCW aboard either of the Marine Corp bases or the Navy Hospital in my area. Their argument is that they are already providing overwhelming protection for me and my family when we are aboard any of those facilities. However, the malls and businesses in crowded areas can't offer that as an argument against CCWs. Therefore, if they persist in not allowing CCWs, then they should be liable for not allowing people to protect themselves when those people get injured or killed due to criminal activity on their property.

[MrsS]

Originally Posted by Bitmap

The problem with this is that most people that carry simply won't go in places that are posted. I, for one, would not volunteer my family as plaintiffs for this kind of suit.

Bitmap: as you have said....I am one of those people---rather than risk any type of fallout or problems that may or may not be excused, depending on what is involved--I just outright don't carry (if I must go to the posted place/job) or don't do my business with them.

SNS: My post was just to assist in giving you a little feedback on that Mall's location & why the residents were remarking the way they were, LOL...

[bassoneer]

I just saw another recorded press conference from today. You guys probably know this by now, but I picked up on the following:

Gun was a Ruger 9mm
Bad guy does not have a carry permit
Bad guy shot salesman in the store one time after a confrontation on a previous purchase, then made other shoppers lay down, then turned back to the salesman and shot him several more times. 2 policemen in the man were there very quickly, and after getting shot at, they shot him a couple of times and took him into custody.
Don't know yet if the guy was high on crack or anything like that
Police say it had no racial overtones at all
More to come I'm sure...I'm just glad nobody can start making up stories about the hazards of having carry permits - this guy was breaking the law all the way around. Later, B

[MrsS]

Originally Posted by bassoneer

I'm just glad nobody can start making up stories about the hazards of having carry permits - this guy was breaking the law all the way around. Later, B

Let's hope that remains so, bassoneer...but you know how it really is. There will always be some gun opponent extremist that will carry on & whine to the world about how guns need to be kept out of everyone's pocket but the police...yada, yada, yada.

They will never get the point that criminals will use a gun, regardless of laws.

Ignorance is still the driving factor for such groups. A few folks know that I carry....men that know think its "awesome" & really get into things like what I carry & how accurate can I shoot from varying yards, etc. The women, with the exception of one-think its downright wrong...especially when I have my little one with me. Now, I know this can go either way! There are men out there who hate guns...but for my circle, its the women who overwhelmingly think guns (especially carrying one) is wrong. Maybe this is different with the regions. I just thought it interesting to bring up.

[TXplt]

^ I think, MrsS, the key is education--CCW holders are very responsible and a firearm is a valuable self-defense tool. Most of the "amateur" anti-gunners I've met have largely been there due to lack of experience and understanding; they never had the chance to go out shooting (for me it's my version of golf). They also don't realize that things have no conscience, and can't be good or bad in and of themselves. Maybe this perception has been skewed by propaganda input; the best cure for me has been to involve people in shooting sports and they greatly enjoy it.

I have noticed through personal observation more women than men being anti-gun (with vehemently pro and anti-gun people from both sexes); I have difficulty understanding this logically. I think a firearm is a great self-defense tool for anyone, particularly capable of assisting a woman who might not have the physical strength of her would-be attacker (and, yes, I do know some women who are very strong as well). It also seems a maternal instinct would favor being able to defend oneself with a firearm--when you have a child it becomes your responsibility to be able to defend the child against harm and preditors.

I view a firearm as a tool and piece of safety equipment; no different than a seat belt or harness.

Cheers