Can I post this here? Had to draw my weapon

KGunner · 10-09-2008, 06:49 PM

I know I should have had my phone, but at that point I was not worried about my phone but instead the poor guy being chased down the street who looked like a harmless hippie coming out of a place called "Cheba Hut" which is a sub shop.

I wouldn't have gone out into the street if I would have thought the kid could have protected himself or if those guys weren't yelling such terrible things. I would much rather make sure he was okay than hear the guy was beat to death by two wiggers (they were, in every sense of the word. A certain satisfaction filled me when I drew on him and his pussy buddy ran away, cowards is all they are).

I did file a report, and let them know exactly what happened. What I posted here is what I told the cop, and is exactly what happened. I didn't exaggerate, or change any part of the story for my own benefit, this is what happened.

The girls who are in disagreement with me said it was stupid I drew my weapon, and stupid I had any guns in Fort Collins (which is relatively crime free). But I grew up in a not so nice part of St. Louis, and was raised around firearms. I don't trust anybody I don't know. And I don't give a shit, if all they want to do is hurt me, I won't let that happen. Not only is it the principle of the situation, but I have to work, manually work, to pay my bills, and if I can't work I don't eat.

I don't agree with pulling your weapon to shoot. I pulled it to get control of a terrible situation. It was 2 against 1, I'm 5'10'' and 140 pounds, I could have lasted a few blows with them as I have with others, but the numbers would have overcome and I would have been fucked. I feel, personally, that a weapon is meant for use in self defense, if you can defend yourself without shooting, then great. I was more than prepared to shoot if I had to. I feel I prevented a shooting by pulling when I did. As stated earlier, if he would have come into the house, he would be dead.

The cop I talked to was a little more than condescending. Funny thing though I went to meet the girlfriend in the Starbucks (don't worry I never get anything there) really close to my house and the cop I filed the report with was there this morning. He knew who I was, and just smiled at me. I honestly think most cops are happy when citizens arm themselves and take a responsible approach to keeping themselves safe.

I feel no shame in what I did. I am only sad I had to. Part of me wishes I shot this fucker dead on my porch because then maybe others like him would learn a damned lesson and stop treating others the way they do. Criminals get away with too much today, and it will take severe action to correct that.

It has been over a week, and still I can't sleep, it is terrible. I am ready for if they come back, I can assure you all it will not end the way it did, and I will be posting another story.

big boomer · 10-09-2008, 06:54 PM

You did well grasshopper(remember kung-fu) Back in the late 60's I had a shotgun in the back seat covered with a blanket(no legal even back then) I stopped at a traffic light and some guy tried to get in the riderside door. Even I, did not know it was locked, but I pointed the shotgun at him and he changed his mind about being there.

tlarkin · 10-09-2008, 07:08 PM

No one here can say you made the right or wrong decision, because none of us were there. You are the only one that knows what really happened, you and the two other guys.

I see you grew up in St. Louis, and I know that East and West St. Louis are two completely different cities, must like Kansas City, which people call killer city now.

Hundreds of murders happen in KC every year. Most of it in a specific part of town and not much out side of that part. Some here and some there, but for the most part it is the poor killing the poor, be it drugs, gang, or out of desperation.

Just be weary that if you pull a gun, they may pull theirs, and pulling your gun may escalate the situation to something you definitely don't want to happen.

Glad no one got hurt.

Also, why is it everyone who commits a crime has to be high on drugs? You people listen and watch the news too much.

KGunner · 10-09-2008, 07:22 PM

I grew up in North County. There are several parts of St. Louis. South County is a mix between rich and poor, lots of meth labs. West County is rich, SOOO rich it blew my mind. There is no East County as that is East St. Louis, by far the worst place I have ever been (Did service hours there in high school), and then there is North County which is more poor than rich. It used to be nice when we moved there in 1992, but toward the latter parts of my stay in St. Louis it got worse and worse, kids mugging people, fatal beating, my neighbor was killed in his driveway. I started to always look over my shoulder and watch what other people were doing. My West County friends did not understand that in the least, they thought it was foolish...if they would have walked around in my neighborhood at night God only knows what would have happened to them. As a matter of fact, they would never come to my house, they drove nice cars, and were afraid of being targeted. We had a lot of black people, believe me I have nothing against them, they are more often than not great people, and I got along with them great, if I hadn't I would not have been alive today. I am very good with people, I have never been in a fight except those I got myself into to protect others (such as the girls we would hang out with, nothing enrages me more than women being mistreated). What I'm trying to say is I am a very non-confrontational person and can get along with everyone so long as they don't have a malfunction. So I came here, and that watchfulness stayed with me. The girls that have said I was wrong in pulling my gun grew up in Golden (Home of Coors, REALLY nice area, almost no violent crime) and Highlands Ranch (Much like West County, kids in Bimmers and Mercedes) so they have NO idea what it is like to fear for your well being. You couldn't take your dog for a walk at night in my neighborhood. I will always keep this attitude, right or wrong it is what I am now.

GDawg · 10-09-2008, 08:35 PM

I know what you mean about Ft. Collins. I went to school in Boulder. You feel safe for the most part. I just had to move from the Springs to the Twin City area of MN. It's not as safe as I would like. I'm staying in a Motel 6 right now for the new job. I've often wondered what the legal ramifications would be for me if someone were being beat down to death outside of my door... Would I be okay if I went to their aid and had to brandish my pistol? I don't have a CCW but I have the pistol and ammo. Some drunk guy was pounding on my door the other night. I didn't open the door for fear that this guy was crazy and I might need to shoot him. That would really throw a wrench in my new job. After that I had dreams that I needed to use my Sig and it fell apart when the crazy was rushing me. I checked it out each morning to insure that it was fine. That's a tough thing you went through. I've had an attempted car jacking in Las Vegas with the guy trying to jump into my convertible. Fortunately I was able to step on it and drag him down the street before he let go. I didn't have my gun then and wonder what the out come would have been if I had.

I'm just glad you're okay. Put up some cameras on your property. They are not expensive.

Coeloptera · 10-09-2008, 09:31 PM

You did exactly what we're all supposed to do. You waited until you were sure it was a genuine threat. You tried to de-escalate, you gave them opportunities to cease their activity, you called the police, you didn't have to use it.

Bravo.

- Coeloptera

TACAV · 10-09-2008, 09:40 PM

Nothing that hasnt been said already.. It wasnt a happy expirience but it was a learning expirience non the less and it worked out with a good ending. Good job.

Windwalker · 10-09-2008, 09:54 PM

You did well Kgunner. I'm glad you dildn't have to shoot either of them though I believe you would have been justified. You just saved a bunch of money because going to Court is expensive, even if you win.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 10-09-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KGunner

It has been over a week, and still I can't sleep, it is terrible. I am ready for if they come back, I can assure you all it will not end the way it did, and I will be posting another story.

Imagine the emotional rollercoaster you'd be dealing with if you had to shoot that kid.

As for the female companion; ask her if she owns mace if she replies yes then ask her why she needs it in such a crime free area?

connormcmanus · 10-09-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Also, why is it everyone who commits a crime has to be high on drugs? You people listen and watch the news too much.

It's not that everyone who commits a crime has to be on drugs, I grew up around cops and understand what drugs do to a person, and I'll tell you right now, NO one stands in front of a gun, empty handed, and say's "so what? you gonna shoot me?" unless they are methed out, or really just don't give a flying fu@k, which I doubt. The rational response is fight or flight, and if the other party has a gun, it's flight. People on drugs don't get that reaction, they are their own god and will stand and wait for you to blow their brains out thinking it's going to bounce off of them. It's not a "every criminal is on drugs thing" it's situational and in that situation, I'd stand 100% by saying he was on something.

just how I see it.

YankeeSpirit76 · 10-10-2008, 12:11 AM

At least you gave those creeps something to think about. You want to go bothering people, be careful...they might have a gun.

Muddog · 10-10-2008, 12:36 AM

It sounds like you did everything right. The only thing I noticed was you said you don't agree with pulling your weapon to shoot, but to gain control of a bad situation. Say you pulled your gun and one of them 2 pulled a gun and WAS ready to shoot? I don't understand why you would try to bluff in a situation where the stakes are that high.

mdj696 · 10-10-2008, 12:42 AM

Every state varys from state to state concerning use of force. I couldn't count the number of questions thrown at me concerning use of force against a perp. Just don't take an officers opinion of a law, ask for your state criminal code section, then google that code section. You don't have to be a lawyer to read the law. Sample- Georgia Criminal code section 16-3-21. Look it up. When I retired only state level retired law enforcement were exempt from having to get a CCW. Got one then moved to N.C. where N.C. didn't recognize Ga's CCW and had to go through class for CCW (N.Carolina). Instructor TVA law enforcement. Only question I missed was Can one shoot through a door at someone attempting to forcable gain entry to residence. They said yes, I told them if you do that in Georgia, your going to jail for involuntary manslaughter. Just google the laws for your individual state.

tlarkin · 10-10-2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connormcmanus

It's not that everyone who commits a crime has to be on drugs, I grew up around cops and understand what drugs do to a person, and I'll tell you right now, NO one stands in front of a gun, empty handed, and say's "so what? you gonna shoot me?" unless they are methed out, or really just don't give a flying fu@k, which I doubt. The rational response is fight or flight, and if the other party has a gun, it's flight. People on drugs don't get that reaction, they are their own god and will stand and wait for you to blow their brains out thinking it's going to bounce off of them. It's not a "every criminal is on drugs thing" it's situational and in that situation, I'd stand 100% by saying he was on something.

just how I see it.

Sorry, I disagree, some people just have balls of steel and others just don't care. Point in case, a guy I have known for years, friend of my friends, worked at a bar/club and walked home every night down main street in midtown KC, MO. On Main there is a rough gay bar. I am not talking about sissy boy gay guys either. I am talking about tough ass violent cowboy gays. I know it sounds weird but they do exist. Cops get called there from time to time to break up the violence. My friend was walking home after his bar had closed, completely sober. Several dudes from that bar saw him walking and they sped their car across the street and pulled out in front of him. One guy hopped out with a gun and pointed it at him and said that they were going to go on a date. My friend said you will have to shoot me and kill me first and kept walking. True story.

I don't think you have ever been around a drug addict or known one. Meth heads would not say kill me, or shoot me, they would plea and cry and beg for money and give you a laundry list of reasons to help them. All of this talk about crack heads and drug addicts not being afraid is not true, they may not care, but they are afraid. Afraid they may never get that next hit or whatever the case may be. Plenty of crack heads around here, and while yes, some do fit the description you are talking about and they may come at you with a knife when you have a gun, but that is a broad generalization.

I beat up a crack head once. Not proud of it, but he touched my shoulder after I gave him some change with my back turned to him. I had no idea what he was going to do so I unleashed on him. He was practically crying and spitting out words I couldn't understand, but he was pleading for me to let him go, and I had no intention of doing any more harm to him. He had just really stunned me when I turned my back to him to walk away. I thought he was going to mug me or worse so I just reacted.

The two girls who I know who got shot last month were both for robbery. Neither suspects were on any drugs at the time.

You can't sit there and blame it all on drugs that is just ridiculous. I have had knives and guns pulled on me and I never once did anything but hand over the cash. Even if I had a gun with me, I wouldn't have even pulled it out. It would have escalated my mugging into a gun fight that I may have not walked away from.

Just try to avoid the situations, and I hate to say it, but don't get involved either. You don't know anyone and you don't know the situation. I have had friends help people only to end up getting screwed in the end, because it ended up being a shady person or a scam. It is a sad screwed up world and I am going to just get by and hopefully not have to resolve to violence with anyone.

troy2000 · 10-10-2008, 12:50 AM

No one should ever pull a gun, unless they're prepared to use it if necessary. But that isn't the same thing as not pulling one unless you're going to use it. You aren't obliged to pull the trigger, if simply being ready to does the job.

Two things: first, you need to relax and get some sleep. This should be a blip in your routine, not a life-changing experience; you didn't kill anyone. And second, I probably wouldn't even have mentioned the events to most of the people I know. Particularly those two gals...

GlockMeister · 10-10-2008, 12:52 AM

Well I'd say, if he pulled his gun to try and prevent it from escalating, and in that process one or both drew down also, then I'm quite sure he'd of shot and then done so with justification. Remember, they're now on his property. And he's of also had the upper hand. Had he waited, it just might have been the other way around.

KGunner, I think I'd watch your back. People like that tend to come back because like you said, they're all pusses and that's what pusses do. They come back and try to catch you off guard. So just watch your back.

I can understand why they say to not draw your gun unless you have to shoot. But I can also understand that one can draw it in order to not have to shoot. That by drawing or brandishing ones weapon, could actually, for the time being anyhow, prevent it, as this did. So I can see both issues.

In reading what Troy said about not telling people, I think he's right. But in the same turn, I can understand where you might be looking to make sure or know if you did it right or did the right thing. But remember, and as you found out, not everyone likes guns or those that have or carry them.

Also as Troy said, get some sleep and don't let this run your life, get back to normality. I'd just suggest you watch your back. They might come back.

And tlarkin, I have never heard of a rough gay bar. lmfao. WOW, to me, now that's funny. I'm not directing my laughter at you, just at your description of this gay bar.

tlarkin, I'd also point out, in reference to the two girls you mentioned that got shot during a robbery, how much worse do you think crime will be or get if they change the 2nd Amendment to fit the times or adjust it to technology as I think you put it? I think things would be and will get much worse if they did or do this. Criminals already don't obey the laws as it is. They sure aren't going to obey them because there are all of a sudden new ones on the books.

I also agree you can't blame it on drugs. But I thin it is a big part of it. Along with hatred, no morals, no ethics, no heart, no concern for the well being of others, no parental guidance etc.etc.etc. There are many reason people hurt and bring harm to others. You're right, it isn't just because of drugs... And with that said, and with how much worse things have gotten and will get, that last thing I want to be is disarmed...

connormcmanus · 10-10-2008, 12:56 AM

Well, that's good to know, so if there is someone holding someone else up at gun point in a convenience store that I happen to be in and I pull my gun and shoot the perp, I'm justified under OCGA, good to know should the need arise. I always thought, (and was pretty damn sure) that I would be right in said situation, but confirmation is always nice. Of course I'm sure some lawyer would say it was unprovoked if the guy got it in the back, whether or not he was waving his gun in the face of someone is irrelevent. I hate lawyers.

tlarkin · 10-10-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

tlarkin, I'd also point out, in reference to the two girls you mentioned that got shot during a robbery, how much worse do you think crime will be or get if they change the 2nd Amendment to fit the times or adjust it to technology as I think you put it? I think things would be and will get much worse if they did or do this. Criminals already don't obey the laws as it is. They sure aren't going to obey them because there are all of a sudden new ones on the books.

If it is a rough cowboy gay bar. Those dudes are all huge like over 6 foot and rowdy. I am not gay at all, but if I was I would still be scared to go in that place. I won't mention the places name, but I used to live a few blocks from it and I remember seeing cops there arresting those boys for fighting quite a few times. Even remember the old ambulances coming out a few times as well.

I know it sounds crazy, but I swear it does exist. Just goes to show you there are a lot of things in this world and in our country we don't even know about. Lots and lots of sub cultures.

Quote:

Well, that's good to know, so if there is someone holding someone else up at gun point in a convenience store that I happen to be in and I pull my gun and shoot the perp, I'm justified under OCGA, good to know should the need arise. I always thought, (and was pretty damn sure) that I would be right in said situation, but confirmation is always nice. Of course I'm sure some lawyer would say it was unprovoked if the guy got it in the back, whether or not he was waving his gun in the face of someone is irrelevent. I hate lawyers

Unless shooting him causes him to fling the gun and randomly pull the trigger and kill someone else. Then your action indirectly caused someone else's death. I wouldn't be too quick to play sheriff when things like that happen. It is best to stay calm, and play it by ear. If they walk out and no one gets shot then you win. Most of those guys that rob gas stations get caught anyway, and those places have insurance to cover their losses.

mdj696 · 10-10-2008, 01:19 AM

KGunner. Check Colorado Criminal Code Section 18-1-704

gunnerdave · 10-10-2008, 03:36 AM

Add me to the list of those who think you did well by not shooting the dirtbag. Even though you don't have a "Duty to retreat", here in Colorado, if the idiot wasn't armed, you may well have been prosecuted. (Remember Vern Smalley?). He wasn't convicted, but he went through a legal meat grinder for his trouble, and he was actually physically assaulted before he dropped the hammer. If that can happen in Colorado Springs, just think what a nightmare Ft Collins could put you through.

I live in Pueblo-West, and most of the Sheriff's deputies are glad that a good number of us have concealed-carry permits and they see us as their allies. (I was told that during a traffic stop when I made a u-turn on across a double yellow line I couldn't see on a rainy night on a secondary thoroughfare a year or so ago). I had not shown the Deputy my permit along with my license and registration (dumb on my part), but I guess he saw that I had one when he ran my plate. I was a bit surprised when he asked me if I was carrying, and I responded "Yes sir". He simply said "Great, I'm glad to hear it" (his exact words) and said he and most of his colleagues knew they had nothing to fear from law-abiding citizens carrying weapons when they went through the trouble/expense of meeting the requirements to qualify for the permits to carry them concealed. He was kind enough to let me go with a verbal warning & gave me his business card. That said, I don't trust the folks in the DA's office to feel the same way.

Watch your back. The dirtbags may return. Perhaps armed next time. I suspect that the short response time may have been due to someone else calling 911 well before you did. It's a sad fact that "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away". They can't be everywhere at once, even though they may want to be.

Glad you're OK.

Dave

10-09-2008, 06:49 PM	#21
KGunner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 796 Blog Entries: 10	I know I should have had my phone, but at that point I was not worried about my phone but instead the poor guy being chased down the street who looked like a harmless hippie coming out of a place called "Cheba Hut" which is a sub shop. I wouldn't have gone out into the street if I would have thought the kid could have protected himself or if those guys weren't yelling such terrible things. I would much rather make sure he was okay than hear the guy was beat to death by two wiggers (they were, in every sense of the word. A certain satisfaction filled me when I drew on him and his pussy buddy ran away, cowards is all they are). I did file a report, and let them know exactly what happened. What I posted here is what I told the cop, and is exactly what happened. I didn't exaggerate, or change any part of the story for my own benefit, this is what happened. The girls who are in disagreement with me said it was stupid I drew my weapon, and stupid I had any guns in Fort Collins (which is relatively crime free). But I grew up in a not so nice part of St. Louis, and was raised around firearms. I don't trust anybody I don't know. And I don't give a shit, if all they want to do is hurt me, I won't let that happen. Not only is it the principle of the situation, but I have to work, manually work, to pay my bills, and if I can't work I don't eat. I don't agree with pulling your weapon to shoot. I pulled it to get control of a terrible situation. It was 2 against 1, I'm 5'10'' and 140 pounds, I could have lasted a few blows with them as I have with others, but the numbers would have overcome and I would have been fucked. I feel, personally, that a weapon is meant for use in self defense, if you can defend yourself without shooting, then great. I was more than prepared to shoot if I had to. I feel I prevented a shooting by pulling when I did. As stated earlier, if he would have come into the house, he would be dead. The cop I talked to was a little more than condescending. Funny thing though I went to meet the girlfriend in the Starbucks (don't worry I never get anything there) really close to my house and the cop I filed the report with was there this morning. He knew who I was, and just smiled at me. I honestly think most cops are happy when citizens arm themselves and take a responsible approach to keeping themselves safe. I feel no shame in what I did. I am only sad I had to. Part of me wishes I shot this fucker dead on my porch because then maybe others like him would learn a damned lesson and stop treating others the way they do. Criminals get away with too much today, and it will take severe action to correct that. It has been over a week, and still I can't sleep, it is terrible. I am ready for if they come back, I can assure you all it will not end the way it did, and I will be posting another story. __________________ If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd probably rather be dead.

10-09-2008, 06:54 PM	#22
big boomer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Minn. Posts: 2,306	You did well grasshopper(remember kung-fu) Back in the late 60's I had a shotgun in the back seat covered with a blanket(no legal even back then) I stopped at a traffic light and some guy tried to get in the riderside door. Even I, did not know it was locked, but I pointed the shotgun at him and he changed his mind about being there. Last edited by big boomer; 10-09-2008 at 07:01 PM.

10-09-2008, 07:22 PM	#24
KGunner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 796 Blog Entries: 10	I grew up in North County. There are several parts of St. Louis. South County is a mix between rich and poor, lots of meth labs. West County is rich, SOOO rich it blew my mind. There is no East County as that is East St. Louis, by far the worst place I have ever been (Did service hours there in high school), and then there is North County which is more poor than rich. It used to be nice when we moved there in 1992, but toward the latter parts of my stay in St. Louis it got worse and worse, kids mugging people, fatal beating, my neighbor was killed in his driveway. I started to always look over my shoulder and watch what other people were doing. My West County friends did not understand that in the least, they thought it was foolish...if they would have walked around in my neighborhood at night God only knows what would have happened to them. As a matter of fact, they would never come to my house, they drove nice cars, and were afraid of being targeted. We had a lot of black people, believe me I have nothing against them, they are more often than not great people, and I got along with them great, if I hadn't I would not have been alive today. I am very good with people, I have never been in a fight except those I got myself into to protect others (such as the girls we would hang out with, nothing enrages me more than women being mistreated). What I'm trying to say is I am a very non-confrontational person and can get along with everyone so long as they don't have a malfunction. So I came here, and that watchfulness stayed with me. The girls that have said I was wrong in pulling my gun grew up in Golden (Home of Coors, REALLY nice area, almost no violent crime) and Highlands Ranch (Much like West County, kids in Bimmers and Mercedes) so they have NO idea what it is like to fear for your well being. You couldn't take your dog for a walk at night in my neighborhood. I will always keep this attitude, right or wrong it is what I am now. __________________ If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd probably rather be dead.

10-09-2008, 08:35 PM	#25
GDawg Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Not in Colorado... anymore... Posts: 989	I know what you mean about Ft. Collins. I went to school in Boulder. You feel safe for the most part. I just had to move from the Springs to the Twin City area of MN. It's not as safe as I would like. I'm staying in a Motel 6 right now for the new job. I've often wondered what the legal ramifications would be for me if someone were being beat down to death outside of my door... Would I be okay if I went to their aid and had to brandish my pistol? I don't have a CCW but I have the pistol and ammo. Some drunk guy was pounding on my door the other night. I didn't open the door for fear that this guy was crazy and I might need to shoot him. That would really throw a wrench in my new job. After that I had dreams that I needed to use my Sig and it fell apart when the crazy was rushing me. I checked it out each morning to insure that it was fine. That's a tough thing you went through. I've had an attempted car jacking in Las Vegas with the guy trying to jump into my convertible. Fortunately I was able to step on it and drag him down the street before he let go. I didn't have my gun then and wonder what the out come would have been if I had. I'm just glad you're okay. Put up some cameras on your property. They are not expensive. __________________ We may encounter many defeats but we must not be defeated.

10-09-2008, 09:40 PM	#27
TACAV Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,537	Nothing that hasnt been said already.. It wasnt a happy expirience but it was a learning expirience non the less and it worked out with a good ending. Good job. __________________ Zombies don't hold grudges, discriminate, or negotiate- Neither should you. -The Zen of Zombie-

10-09-2008, 07:08 PM	#23
tlarkin Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449 Blog Entries: 2	No one here can say you made the right or wrong decision, because none of us were there. You are the only one that knows what really happened, you and the two other guys. I see you grew up in St. Louis, and I know that East and West St. Louis are two completely different cities, must like Kansas City, which people call killer city now. Hundreds of murders happen in KC every year. Most of it in a specific part of town and not much out side of that part. Some here and some there, but for the most part it is the poor killing the poor, be it drugs, gang, or out of desperation. Just be weary that if you pull a gun, they may pull theirs, and pulling your gun may escalate the situation to something you definitely don't want to happen. Glad no one got hurt. Also, why is it everyone who commits a crime has to be high on drugs? You people listen and watch the news too much.

10-09-2008, 09:31 PM	#26
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3,561	You did exactly what we're all supposed to do. You waited until you were sure it was a genuine threat. You tried to de-escalate, you gave them opportunities to cease their activity, you called the police, you didn't have to use it. Bravo. - Coeloptera

10-09-2008, 09:54 PM	#28
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 6,097	You did well Kgunner. I'm glad you dildn't have to shoot either of them though I believe you would have been justified. You just saved a bunch of money because going to Court is expensive, even if you win. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it In God I Trust

10-10-2008, 12:11 AM	#31
YankeeSpirit76 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 665	At least you gave those creeps something to think about. You want to go bothering people, be careful...they might have a gun.

10-10-2008, 12:36 AM	#32
Muddog Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Kansas Posts: 141	It sounds like you did everything right. The only thing I noticed was you said you don't agree with pulling your weapon to shoot, but to gain control of a bad situation. Say you pulled your gun and one of them 2 pulled a gun and WAS ready to shoot? I don't understand why you would try to bluff in a situation where the stakes are that high.

10-10-2008, 12:42 AM	#33
mdj696 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 534 Images: 1	Every state varys from state to state concerning use of force. I couldn't count the number of questions thrown at me concerning use of force against a perp. Just don't take an officers opinion of a law, ask for your state criminal code section, then google that code section. You don't have to be a lawyer to read the law. Sample- Georgia Criminal code section 16-3-21. Look it up. When I retired only state level retired law enforcement were exempt from having to get a CCW. Got one then moved to N.C. where N.C. didn't recognize Ga's CCW and had to go through class for CCW (N.Carolina). Instructor TVA law enforcement. Only question I missed was Can one shoot through a door at someone attempting to forcable gain entry to residence. They said yes, I told them if you do that in Georgia, your going to jail for involuntary manslaughter. Just google the laws for your individual state.

10-10-2008, 12:50 AM	#35
troy2000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 14,554 Images: 9	No one should ever pull a gun, unless they're prepared to use it if necessary. But that isn't the same thing as not pulling one unless you're going to use it. You aren't obliged to pull the trigger, if simply being ready to does the job. Two things: first, you need to relax and get some sleep. This should be a blip in your routine, not a life-changing experience; you didn't kill anyone. And second, I probably wouldn't even have mentioned the events to most of the people I know. Particularly those two gals... Last edited by troy2000; 10-10-2008 at 12:53 AM.

10-10-2008, 12:52 AM	#36
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,676	Well I'd say, if he pulled his gun to try and prevent it from escalating, and in that process one or both drew down also, then I'm quite sure he'd of shot and then done so with justification. Remember, they're now on his property. And he's of also had the upper hand. Had he waited, it just might have been the other way around. KGunner, I think I'd watch your back. People like that tend to come back because like you said, they're all pusses and that's what pusses do. They come back and try to catch you off guard. So just watch your back. I can understand why they say to not draw your gun unless you have to shoot. But I can also understand that one can draw it in order to not have to shoot. That by drawing or brandishing ones weapon, could actually, for the time being anyhow, prevent it, as this did. So I can see both issues. In reading what Troy said about not telling people, I think he's right. But in the same turn, I can understand where you might be looking to make sure or know if you did it right or did the right thing. But remember, and as you found out, not everyone likes guns or those that have or carry them. Also as Troy said, get some sleep and don't let this run your life, get back to normality. I'd just suggest you watch your back. They might come back. And tlarkin, I have never heard of a rough gay bar. lmfao. WOW, to me, now that's funny. I'm not directing my laughter at you, just at your description of this gay bar. tlarkin, I'd also point out, in reference to the two girls you mentioned that got shot during a robbery, how much worse do you think crime will be or get if they change the 2nd Amendment to fit the times or adjust it to technology as I think you put it? I think things would be and will get much worse if they did or do this. Criminals already don't obey the laws as it is. They sure aren't going to obey them because there are all of a sudden new ones on the books. I also agree you can't blame it on drugs. But I thin it is a big part of it. Along with hatred, no morals, no ethics, no heart, no concern for the well being of others, no parental guidance etc.etc.etc. There are many reason people hurt and bring harm to others. You're right, it isn't just because of drugs... And with that said, and with how much worse things have gotten and will get, that last thing I want to be is disarmed... __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke" Last edited by GlockMeister; 10-10-2008 at 01:06 AM.

10-10-2008, 12:56 AM	#37
connormcmanus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Winder, GA Posts: 235	Well, that's good to know, so if there is someone holding someone else up at gun point in a convenience store that I happen to be in and I pull my gun and shoot the perp, I'm justified under OCGA, good to know should the need arise. I always thought, (and was pretty damn sure) that I would be right in said situation, but confirmation is always nice. Of course I'm sure some lawyer would say it was unprovoked if the guy got it in the back, whether or not he was waving his gun in the face of someone is irrelevent. I hate lawyers.

10-10-2008, 01:19 AM	#39
mdj696 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 534 Images: 1	KGunner. Check Colorado Criminal Code Section 18-1-704 Last edited by mdj696; 10-10-2008 at 01:20 AM. Reason: spelling

10-10-2008, 03:36 AM	#40
gunnerdave Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 653	Add me to the list of those who think you did well by not shooting the dirtbag. Even though you don't have a "Duty to retreat", here in Colorado, if the idiot wasn't armed, you may well have been prosecuted. (Remember Vern Smalley?). He wasn't convicted, but he went through a legal meat grinder for his trouble, and he was actually physically assaulted before he dropped the hammer. If that can happen in Colorado Springs, just think what a nightmare Ft Collins could put you through. I live in Pueblo-West, and most of the Sheriff's deputies are glad that a good number of us have concealed-carry permits and they see us as their allies. (I was told that during a traffic stop when I made a u-turn on across a double yellow line I couldn't see on a rainy night on a secondary thoroughfare a year or so ago). I had not shown the Deputy my permit along with my license and registration (dumb on my part), but I guess he saw that I had one when he ran my plate. I was a bit surprised when he asked me if I was carrying, and I responded "Yes sir". He simply said "Great, I'm glad to hear it" (his exact words) and said he and most of his colleagues knew they had nothing to fear from law-abiding citizens carrying weapons when they went through the trouble/expense of meeting the requirements to qualify for the permits to carry them concealed. He was kind enough to let me go with a verbal warning & gave me his business card. That said, I don't trust the folks in the DA's office to feel the same way. Watch your back. The dirtbags may return. Perhaps armed next time. I suspect that the short response time may have been due to someone else calling 911 well before you did. It's a sad fact that "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away". They can't be everywhere at once, even though they may want to be. Glad you're OK. Dave __________________ Show me where Josef Stalin is buried & I'll show you a communist plot.