Time For A Sniper Attack On Gun Laws

Doglips · 10-09-2002, 08:15 PM

it started.................CBS News

Time For A Sniper Attack On Gun Laws

WASHINGTON, Oct. 9, 2002

(CBS/AP)

The gun industry ... has vastly increased the marketing of military-style sniper or “tactical” rifles to civilians markets in recent years, as the rest of the gun market became saturated.

(CBS) There are tools to track guns used in crimes that we’re not using. In his latest Against the Grain commentary, CBSNews.com's Dick Meyer says that’s inexcusable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A new, but always futile debate over gun control follows high profile gun crimes as inevitably as the funerals. The chilling sniper attacks around Washington are no exception.

Gun control advocates, and I am one, are busy pointing out how these serial-sniper killings tragically reveal the need to give police much better gun-tracking tools. Specifically, there is a renewed call to resuscitate proposals for a national databank for “ballistic fingerprints,” the unique markings every firearm makes on bullets and shell-casings.

Opponents of gun control, led by the National Rifle Association -- surprise, surprise -- say a national ballistic fingerprint tracking system is backdoor gun registration and useless bureaucratic meddling. They’ve fought successfully against it.

They go on to point out a supposed irony. Maryland, where six of the eight shootings have occurred, is one of only two states with a forensic gun-tracking law requiring gun makers to provide records of the “ballistic fingerprints” of the guns they manufacture, though it applies only to handguns, not rifles, not “tactical” sniper rifles. New York is the other state.

There’s nothing complicated about constructing a national “ballistic fingerprint” bank. Every new gun would be test-fired and its unique fingerprint would be indexed into a computer databank. If the gun were used in a crime, any recovered bullet could be quickly linked to the gun, perhaps to the gun owner or at least to a trail of possession.

A watered down version exists already, the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network (NIBIN). But the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms that runs the program can only include guns recovered from crime scenes, not new guns. Still, it has proven useful to police.

The critics say that crooks don’t buy guns from legitimate sellers. They steal them or buy stolen ones. And a gun-print bank would only register a fraction 200 million guns floating around the country. Finally, criminals could alter a gun’s fingerprint easily.

All true. But combined with the current NABIN system, police would have another weapon in their arsenal. Explain to me why that’s a bad thing.

In Maryland, the gun lobby complained that handgun sales went down when the “ballistic fingerprint” law went into effect. Again, please explain to me why that’s a bad thing.

In my view, this debate is a no-brainer. Cars are licensed and registered; guns should be licensed and registered. All of them.

The serial-sniper spree also forces us to take note of a more perverse phenomenon, a “sniper subculture within the gun community,” to use the description of the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy organization.

The gun industry, according to Violence Policy Center reports, has vastly increased the marketing of military-style sniper or “tactical” rifles to civilian markets in recent years, because the rest of the gun market became saturated.

My colleague, Jim Stewart, has been reporting for several years on the growing number of sniper “schools” in this country. While most are only open to train law enforcement professionals, civilians can pay up to attend some of them.

Gun and Soldier of Fortune-type magazines routinely run reverential stories of the famous snipers. The movie “Enemies at the Gate” last year was all about a duel between a Russian and a Nazi sniper in the Battle of Stalingrad (and it happened to be a good movie, based on an excellent book, “The War of the Rats).

And though I won’t tell you how to find them, the Web is full of sniper sites and some of them are pretty sick.

Obviously, no one knows anything about the serial-sniper stalking the Washington area yet. We don’t know where he got his gun, what kind it is, what Web sites he might visit or what movies he might watch.

But he’s already written a new chapter in the history of gun crimes in America, a book we’ve allowed to grow too thick.

And the debate about gun laws this will renew, including this little editorial, won’t even be a footnote to the chapter.

Dick Meyer, a veteran political and investigative producer for CBS News, is Editorial Director of CBSNews.com based in Washington.

E-mail questions, comments, complaints and ideas to
Against the Grain.

By Dick Meyer © MMII, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved

Sniper[MI] · 10-09-2002, 11:03 PM

Howdy,

I just don't get where these people are comming from. Every shooter, be they a target shooter, military, a hunter or a tactical officer SHOULD be well trained to be a good shot. Beinjg a good shot prevents stupid accidents and death.

Being able to hit your target does NOT make you an evil person!

When you cross the line and start attacking innocent people YOU have broken the law! It is not your training that makes this happen, it is your messed up mental frame of mind!

Are we the only ones who get this???

Stewart · 10-09-2002, 11:04 PM

Well I can't say that I am surprised. Every clip on the news that I see contains a segment with police carrying an AR-15 type rifle as what the suspect the "sniper" is using. I think this is just the start of the big anti gun push.

Benny · 10-09-2002, 11:27 PM

Sniper, you're right, being able to hit your target DOESN'T make you a criminal. I know that common sense prevails on this site. Sure we all make mistakes, but we don't break the law. It sickens me to be compared to this nut. The media just doesn't think.

Benny

8mm Vigilante · 10-09-2002, 11:42 PM

according to this guy and the anti's in general, being a good shot doesn't make you a criminal, owning a gun does.
I esspecialy like the fact that he got his gun manafactures figures not from the manufacturers themselves but from the Violence Policy Center, so automaticly this is not a fair article and thus refuse!!! Refuse with a tinge of leftist stench!!.
-Jesse

tommy · 10-10-2002, 05:12 PM

to me the gun finger prints would only work if the person leaves his gun stock and doesn't change it. i can go and buy a gun and then buy seperate barrels and bolt caries and firing pins . then go out and shoot someone .then i can just change the parts out and never say nuthing.don't get me wrong it will work but not all the time. like they say (where there's a will there's a way.).

Stopper · 10-10-2002, 05:25 PM

We are a free society, we are innocent until proven guilty. Giving them the Ballistic finger print before the gun is purchased is like you getting finger printed before you committed a crime. Sure your finger printed at birth (aren't we) why isn't that info in a data base, then if they found a finger print - Bingo - they have got 'em. But they don't, they find a finger print then they have to find a person that hopefully matches that finger print - if that person hasn't been arrested and printed before. If he has then bingo - they got 'em.

They basically don't trust us - and when the goverment doesn't trust it's CITIZENS it becomes tyrannical - thats whats gonna happen if they try to take our guns - hope it doesn't come to that.

Where's the NRA?

Mandy · 10-10-2002, 06:43 PM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Maybe, (I've no proof) this is the plot of some antigun, remember the elections are close by and many would like to rally on the antigun truck.
I hope this SOB gets caught before there are more killings.
Maybe some special ops team can use this person and the conspirators for sniper practice.

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

Dale · 10-11-2002, 10:49 AM

Unfortunately, these random shootings are not 'out of sight...out of mind'...but rather right on the doorsteps, as it were, of Congress.

The time is ripe, for sure, for a new and gigantic push on gun control and, possibly, more bans.
Rarely is the airline safety an issue until a mechanical malfunction or worse occurs.

Seldom do Pharmacutical companies hold themselves in check until a few deaths occur from their medications.

Etc, etc.

So often our society demands someone put a patch over the leak in the raft rather than taking the ice picks from the few idiots punching holes in it.

It's unfortunate......I've got my fingers crossed that the push isn't a huge success for anit-gunners and cooler heads will prevail.

10-09-2002, 08:15 PM	#1
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,088	Time For A Sniper Attack On Gun Laws it started.................CBS News Time For A Sniper Attack On Gun Laws WASHINGTON, Oct. 9, 2002 (CBS/AP) The gun industry ... has vastly increased the marketing of military-style sniper or “tactical” rifles to civilians markets in recent years, as the rest of the gun market became saturated. (CBS) There are tools to track guns used in crimes that we’re not using. In his latest Against the Grain commentary, CBSNews.com's Dick Meyer says that’s inexcusable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A new, but always futile debate over gun control follows high profile gun crimes as inevitably as the funerals. The chilling sniper attacks around Washington are no exception. Gun control advocates, and I am one, are busy pointing out how these serial-sniper killings tragically reveal the need to give police much better gun-tracking tools. Specifically, there is a renewed call to resuscitate proposals for a national databank for “ballistic fingerprints,” the unique markings every firearm makes on bullets and shell-casings. Opponents of gun control, led by the National Rifle Association -- surprise, surprise -- say a national ballistic fingerprint tracking system is backdoor gun registration and useless bureaucratic meddling. They’ve fought successfully against it. They go on to point out a supposed irony. Maryland, where six of the eight shootings have occurred, is one of only two states with a forensic gun-tracking law requiring gun makers to provide records of the “ballistic fingerprints” of the guns they manufacture, though it applies only to handguns, not rifles, not “tactical” sniper rifles. New York is the other state. There’s nothing complicated about constructing a national “ballistic fingerprint” bank. Every new gun would be test-fired and its unique fingerprint would be indexed into a computer databank. If the gun were used in a crime, any recovered bullet could be quickly linked to the gun, perhaps to the gun owner or at least to a trail of possession. A watered down version exists already, the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network (NIBIN). But the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms that runs the program can only include guns recovered from crime scenes, not new guns. Still, it has proven useful to police. The critics say that crooks don’t buy guns from legitimate sellers. They steal them or buy stolen ones. And a gun-print bank would only register a fraction 200 million guns floating around the country. Finally, criminals could alter a gun’s fingerprint easily. All true. But combined with the current NABIN system, police would have another weapon in their arsenal. Explain to me why that’s a bad thing. In Maryland, the gun lobby complained that handgun sales went down when the “ballistic fingerprint” law went into effect. Again, please explain to me why that’s a bad thing. In my view, this debate is a no-brainer. Cars are licensed and registered; guns should be licensed and registered. All of them. The serial-sniper spree also forces us to take note of a more perverse phenomenon, a “sniper subculture within the gun community,” to use the description of the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy organization. The gun industry, according to Violence Policy Center reports, has vastly increased the marketing of military-style sniper or “tactical” rifles to civilian markets in recent years, because the rest of the gun market became saturated. My colleague, Jim Stewart, has been reporting for several years on the growing number of sniper “schools” in this country. While most are only open to train law enforcement professionals, civilians can pay up to attend some of them. Gun and Soldier of Fortune-type magazines routinely run reverential stories of the famous snipers. The movie “Enemies at the Gate” last year was all about a duel between a Russian and a Nazi sniper in the Battle of Stalingrad (and it happened to be a good movie, based on an excellent book, “The War of the Rats). And though I won’t tell you how to find them, the Web is full of sniper sites and some of them are pretty sick. Obviously, no one knows anything about the serial-sniper stalking the Washington area yet. We don’t know where he got his gun, what kind it is, what Web sites he might visit or what movies he might watch. But he’s already written a new chapter in the history of gun crimes in America, a book we’ve allowed to grow too thick. And the debate about gun laws this will renew, including this little editorial, won’t even be a footnote to the chapter. Dick Meyer, a veteran political and investigative producer for CBS News, is Editorial Director of CBSNews.com based in Washington. E-mail questions, comments, complaints and ideas to Against the Grain. By Dick Meyer © MMII, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved

10-09-2002, 11:03 PM	#2
Sniper[MI] Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Future 51st state, "New Hope" Posts: 3,796	Howdy, I just don't get where these people are comming from. Every shooter, be they a target shooter, military, a hunter or a tactical officer SHOULD be well trained to be a good shot. Beinjg a good shot prevents stupid accidents and death. Being able to hit your target does NOT make you an evil person! When you cross the line and start attacking innocent people YOU have broken the law! It is not your training that makes this happen, it is your messed up mental frame of mind! Are we the only ones who get this??? __________________ FNUH!

10-09-2002, 11:04 PM	#3
Stewart Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calhoun, Georgia Posts: 675	Well I can't say that I am surprised. Every clip on the news that I see contains a segment with police carrying an AR-15 type rifle as what the suspect the "sniper" is using. I think this is just the start of the big anti gun push. __________________ "You can sleep well at night because rough men are willing to commit violent acts on your behalf" George Orwell

10-09-2002, 11:27 PM	#4
Benny Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socorro, NM Posts: 202	Sniper, you're right, being able to hit your target DOESN'T make you a criminal. I know that common sense prevails on this site. Sure we all make mistakes, but we don't break the law. It sickens me to be compared to this nut. The media just doesn't think. Benny __________________ Are you going to eat that??

10-09-2002, 11:42 PM	#5
8mm Vigilante Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South of Sanity Posts: 498	according to this guy and the anti's in general, being a good shot doesn't make you a criminal, owning a gun does. I esspecialy like the fact that he got his gun manafactures figures not from the manufacturers themselves but from the Violence Policy Center, so automaticly this is not a fair article and thus refuse!!! Refuse with a tinge of leftist stench!!. -Jesse __________________ Never succumb to tyranny Refuse/Resist! Mauser Kar98k 7.92x57 "Retreat?, Retreat hell, we just got here!!!!"

10-10-2002, 05:12 PM	#6
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,147 Images: 6	to me the gun finger prints would only work if the person leaves his gun stock and doesn't change it. i can go and buy a gun and then buy seperate barrels and bolt caries and firing pins . then go out and shoot someone .then i can just change the parts out and never say nuthing.don't get me wrong it will work but not all the time. like they say (where there's a will there's a way.).

10-10-2002, 05:25 PM	#7
Stopper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansass Posts: 2,212 Images: 1	We are a free society, we are innocent until proven guilty. Giving them the Ballistic finger print before the gun is purchased is like you getting finger printed before you committed a crime. Sure your finger printed at birth (aren't we) why isn't that info in a data base, then if they found a finger print - Bingo - they have got 'em. But they don't, they find a finger print then they have to find a person that hopefully matches that finger print - if that person hasn't been arrested and printed before. If he has then bingo - they got 'em. They basically don't trust us - and when the goverment doesn't trust it's CITIZENS it becomes tyrannical - thats whats gonna happen if they try to take our guns - hope it doesn't come to that. Where's the NRA? __________________ They should have stopped at "Congress shall make no law"

10-10-2002, 06:43 PM	#8
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Maybe, (I've no proof) this is the plot of some antigun, remember the elections are close by and many would like to rally on the antigun truck. I hope this SOB gets caught before there are more killings. Maybe some special ops team can use this person and the conspirators for sniper practice. :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

10-11-2002, 10:49 AM	#9
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Unfortunately, these random shootings are not 'out of sight...out of mind'...but rather right on the doorsteps, as it were, of Congress. The time is ripe, for sure, for a new and gigantic push on gun control and, possibly, more bans. Rarely is the airline safety an issue until a mechanical malfunction or worse occurs. Seldom do Pharmacutical companies hold themselves in check until a few deaths occur from their medications. Etc, etc. So often our society demands someone put a patch over the leak in the raft rather than taking the ice picks from the few idiots punching holes in it. It's unfortunate......I've got my fingers crossed that the push isn't a huge success for anit-gunners and cooler heads will prevail. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me