I am thinking about switching from surplus Portugal .223 to Wolf, for my AR. I also might buy some 9mm for my Glock. What is your opinion on wolf ammo? I have heard horror stories, but don't know if I should believe them or not. The main things I have heard is...
1. Lacquer coating can melt off/dry on in chambers
2. Steel casing hard on extracters
3. Dirtier than average ammo
Some people just say, commie ammo for commie guns (AK, SKS). Well, let me hear your thoughts. Better safe, than sorry.
The lacquer can cause problems, but it's more prone to the cases with sharp angles on them. .223 would be okay. I've not found that it's much dirtier than Win 231 or AA1680. If your extractor breaks on a steel case, it was time to replace it anyway. The steel used for the cases is about the hardness of coat hanger wire. I don't know about the 9mm luger, but the 9x18 is pretty accurate. Another option you may want to look at is Silver Bear and Brown Bear ammo. If you are having trouble finding it give me an e-mail and I'll hook you up.
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Haven't shot wolf. but, jarcp speaks the truth concerning Silver Bear. I buy it when I borrow my brothers AR as I don't shoot enought to set up for loading in that cal. Get mine from Cheaper Than Dirt.
Wolf rifle ammo is pretty much designed for AK type rifles, and has problems in many others, such as ARs and Minis. One reason I'm thinking of getting a VEPR II 223 before an AR is that it can use Wolf.
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Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
As a Warsaw Pact firearms collector and proponent, even I say: commie ammo for commie calibers and/or commie guns.
Do NOT use lacquered ammo in 9mm. It is not worth saving all of $10-$20/1K over Win USA, S&B, PMP, etc. If you shoot a 9mm like a .38 Special (6 shots, go look at your target, repeat about six times, go home) and clean every time you shoot it, you MIGHT get away with it. Since virtually no one shoots 9mm like that, you will screw up your extractor at the very least. For the purpose of this caliber and lacquered steel ammo, CZs are not commie guns. I don't think anyone would shoot Wolf in a Sig, so don't do it in a CZ either.
I don't want to sound preachy, but if I prevent even one person from shooting Russian commercial ammo in a 9mm, it was worth it.
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WARNING: CZs MAY BE HABIT-FORMING (Consult a doctor if nursing or pregnant).
I have not fired Wolf ammo in either .223 or 9mm, so I cannot comment on those calibers; however, Wolf 7.62x54 ammo is Excellent. I've fired a couple hundred rounds out of Mosins and it outshoots anything else, commercial or surplus, that I have tried. Although steel alloy, the cases are fairly soft, as jarcp has stated. I have never experienced a chambering or extraction problem with the rounds (the Mosin action requires a relatively spirited touch anyway, so that might hide tolerances which could be more critical in a semiauto) and none of the cases has failed in any way.
In any event, the current Wolf ammo is just "commie ammo" made after de wall fall down....
Yes, the steel cases are not ordnance alloy. They are a fairly soft alloy (otherwise they wouldn't fireform at all). I am not sure they fireform well, though. They are certainly harder than brass.
The real culprit is the lacquer in a firearm with a combination of relatively tight tolerances, relatively high pressure, and relatively high heat. I am qualifying everything, because all firearms generate heat, pressure, etc. The former Warsaw Pact arms do not have exceptionally tight tolerances. This is not because they are "cheap guns;" this is because they were designed to use ammo of this type. You might as well use Russian commerical ammo and S&B (their 7.62x39 is steel/lacquer) in these guns. I do.
9mm and lacquer are a bad combination from what I have seen. The extractors break, not because the steel is so hard that they can't take it. They break because the chamber gums up with lacquer (which is not always visible to the naked eye), and the steel alloy is harder than brass. Silver Bear ought to have a lot fewer problems.
I have limited my comments to 9mm, because I have seen many problems with Wolf 9mm. I won't comment on other cartridges, but use your own judgement. With 9mm so cheap, why hassle with this stuff? At the very least, your "savings" is going to go to more cleaning supplies.
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WARNING: CZs MAY BE HABIT-FORMING (Consult a doctor if nursing or pregnant).
Can't speak personally for the 9mm, but I do know my Ruger P90 will NOT chamber the .45 Wolf ammo. Apparently, the lacquer coating makes it too tight to chamber. I've tried numerous brands of brass ammo and never had the problem.
Edit:
Have tried the newer non-lacquer .45ACP ammo. Works great in my Ruger P90, Taurus Tracker 455, Taurus PT145, and Kimber BP Ten II.
Last edited by Mark; 08-13-2006 at 10:13 AM.
Reason: New info to add
This is from the purist, people, i know.
The only thing they have input on.
Steel case in UNCHROMED Chamb's.
Causes chamber scratches, which cause's estraction problems.
As for the polamer new coatings. Wolfs staff, assured me this won't cause,
Glue up in unchromed chambers.
Shoot on, my friend.:uzi::uzi:
Cartergs:ballons:
I have shot Wolf 9mm in my SIG P226. My older P226 has about 350 rounds to go until 10,000 rounds. Of them rounds 400 were Wolf. The Wolf was VERY accurate, but was slower than domestic 9mm. It was only slightly more dirty than Winchester bulk USA ammo.
There were no failures of any kind. I fired 150 rounds through an already hot gun as fast as I could put 'em down range and reload. A loaded round was left in the chamber and the pistol was placed over my kidney in a Fobus holster for 20 minutes. The round did not melt and glue to my chamber. The extractor is fine some 4,000 rounds after the test.
I have read that the problem with the lacquer is only a problem when certain oils in the chamber react with the lacquer and melt it and form a thick goo that will harden over time. To be honest this is not a test I want to perform, I will take the word of those that have. What they need to do is not claim that all lacquered ammo is glue to hot guns when it is a simple maintenance issue.
My brother did the same with his SAR-1 (AK-47). Except he fired slightly more than 500 rounds from drums and 30 round mags. The results were the same. No round glued into chamber after letting the round sit in it for 10 minutes....
My Hi-Point Carbine and Maadi Cadet pistol love the 9mm Wolf ammo. But, I wouldn't put it thru a quality firearm.
My buddy shoots Wolf .223 in his Bushmaster AR15, and has no problems - he likes it. I'll never put it thru my Bushmaster M17S. Just my personal preference.
Wolf 7.62X39 is good plinking ammo, if you just want to put lead downrange. It doesn't group well in my Ak and SKS rifles. Ulyanovsk ammo, also laquer coated, works much better for me - very accurate!
i get some very good results with my AK and sks using wolf also. not the best out of all the amo i tried, but still good. My best results come from Remington though. wolf is cheaper so i get that and still get good results
It sure makes cleaning easier when you shoot Winchester rather than Wolf in an AR and other more quality firearms, but in an AK I don't think it matters because it is just an AK.
Cleaning an AR-15 is like cleaning a tiny watch....easy to do once you get the hang of it, but still gotta keep up with the smaller parts as with anything.
I defintly recommend shooting wolf overall...their quality has came a long way since the start of this thread!
My HK's don't like wolf ammo at all, my 2 high point carbines love it tho, so does my sks, altho it likes silver bear much better. My mosins will eat wolf ammo for lunch no worrys, but my bushmaster won't eat wolf ammo at all. It's dirty ammo, the lacquer fouls the throat of the barrel sometimes, more often than not actually.trial and error is what you'll need to see for yourself what works and what doesnt. I'll shoot wolf out of my less expensive firearms, but the quality firearms I won't.
