Bill Moyers sits down with political commentator and Salon.com blogger Glenn Greenwald who asks: Are we a nation ruled by men or by laws? A former constitutional and civil rights lawyer, Greenwald looks at the legacy of the Bush Administration, the prospects for President-elect Obama's cabinet choices, as well as the possibilities for government accountability.
We're ruled by men, not laws. No, let me take that back...
WE, the average ordinary citizen are somehow ruled by both men AND laws, most often in contradiction of each other while the criminals in the government are ruled by neither. Well, less any law not under the direct support of some internal political coup.
The government has become one unbeholden to those it claims to represent. And even worse, they do it in our faces partly because of the knowlege deficit of the average citizen, and partly because they know we can't come to their houses in the dead of night, arrest them, and have trials of our own when the Attorney General sees fit not to do so himself.
We could build an entire prison just for them with the assets we seize from their convictions.
ALL societies are ruled by MEN. Period.
Laws are simply the agreed 'rules of order' for that particular society.
The Men in power may or may not follow those laws. They will use those laws to further their own ends.
I don't like the idea that our government thinks they can tell me I can't protect myself. I think it is a God given right to be able to protect yourself. My personal protection should not be decided by elected officials in public office. Am I supposed to have faith that they will protect me?
I think Americans are waking up to what could happen. Look what Europe and the rest of the old world have been through, the revolutions, new forms of governments, governments overthrown, Civil wars.
Our nation is so young we haven't had time to go through all those changes yet. But I believe they're coming.
Then look at what I call the 3 sister countries, the US, Canada, and Australia. We all have the same mother country, but the 3 of us are so young, nothing really has happened yet.
We were born in Revolution that the other 2 didn't have to go through, but we were only 87 years old when we had a Civil War. Since then, it's been pretty quiet.
Canada and Australia's Independence kind of evolved slowly.
Canada started in 1867, but it wasn't until 1931 (Statute of Westminster) that they both received more independence.
Not till the (Canada Act) of 1982 were they completely free of all British law.
The (Australia Act) of 1986 cut all interference from Britain.
My point is that because we are so young, we haven't had the time to get so fed up with our government that we felt we need to give it a good "B" slapping! I think our time is here. Hopefully it won't have to be violent, but I think for the first time in our history, we are waking up to the fact that our Constitution may be in trouble.
In the last 26 years, Canada had a crisis with Quebec wanting to go it's own way. And now Australia is having trouble sorting things out between their Federal and State governments. I guess it's all part of growing up as a nation.
I think Americans are waking up to what could happen. Look what Europe and the rest of the old world have been through, the revolutions, new forms of governments, governments overthrown, Civil wars.
Our nation is so young we haven't had time to go through all those changes yet. But I believe they're coming.
Then look at what I call the 3 sister countries, the US, Canada, and Australia. We all have the same mother country, but the 3 of us are so young, nothing really has happened yet.
We were born in Revolution that the other 2 didn't have to go through, but we were only 87 years old when we had a Civil War. Since then, it's been pretty quiet.
There’s a big difference in the growing pains of the past and the ones that might be coming. In the past a nation did have the ability to destroy the entire world with the push of a few buttons. Nor were the other nation so dependent on the stability of the other world powers. In our current state if one of the major world stock market were to totally crash, it could very well take the others with it. I understand that every nation has to go through it growing pains but, there is a such thing as growing to fast. I fear that due to the rapid growth of this nation, that the growing pains may be to painful to endure
We are supposed to be ruled by laws and by men, with checks and balances. Laws prevent abuse of power by men, men prevent abuse of laws by men, and execute the laws.
Only with God are the person and the laws fully consistent. But the system of men and laws can be better or worse than most. Ours used to be better.
__________________
Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
To regain control of our government we must pass two term limit laws and get rid of our "professional politicians". Then we can restore our Constitutional checks and balances.
__________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it In God I Trust
I support Arizona
I have the same fear, but hope that it won't end up that way, and wish to exhaust every other option first. But submitting to corruption is not one of them.
__________________
Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
A small elitist body of MEN decide on and pass the laws. They also too often hold themselves above those same laws. We The People are held to those laws, by the Lawless.
Politics, tyranny - it's all the same thing in Wunderland.
As usual we're being ruled by those with money which gives them the ability to get their way and their beliefs imposed on the masses.
Example: someone with lots of money ( George Soros is one who comes to mind) and that also doesn't like guns, gives a politician or politicians with the same beliefs lots of money and then they get others who ] get on board also get money and before you know it, they're imposing their beliefs on us through anti-gun laws, as an example.
Oh, and I'm sure SOMEONE, will have something to say about this. Gee, wonder who that could be? lol
__________________ "My next door neighbors two dogs have created more shovel ready jobs then Obama has." - Gary Johnson
Last edited by GlockMeister; 12-16-2008 at 07:50 PM.
Only with God are the person and the laws fully consistent. But the system of men and laws can be better or worse than most. Ours used to be better.
That is the truth. If man could make a perfect system there would be no need for God. That is why no government system has survived in the same way that it was created. When ours was created it was ideally the closest thing to perfect, but imperfect humans have corrupted it. Only thing we can do is strive to keep it as close to the ideal as possible but it will never be perfect so long as men oversee it.
The men who built this nation recognized that any system would be imperfect, and designed accordingly. Our system of government look very different from one where people think it actually can be perfect... like communism.
__________________
Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
we have plenty of laws, we do not need any more, as for men we are ruled by them threw new laws. but moral laws is what counts, we all know right from wrong, and if we replace moral laws with more writen laws we loose self control and we become beholding to others for answers, ie more goverment. take a look at the freedom of religon foundation that is why thay do not like the 10 comandments and any thing religous on public property. then threw laws you can do no wrong. the left thinks legally, the right thinks morally. who in breaking the law in germany in 1942, the person hidding the jew, or the person comming to take the jew away.
law's are like old mail from 2 years ago, you have to throw out what is old and outdated, have to be flexable with the times, some law on the books from the 1860's for cussing on sunday seems a little outdated when there isant any about Identity theft, or scams,
Its not about the law's so much the justice the law's should represent, a meth junkie kicks in the door to your parents home and your 70 year old Dad plugs the thug with a poorly placed shot to the leg, who is going to jail for that one? depends where you live right? who the DA is right? and what his political agenda may be, gunrelated crime.... instant 5 years in the lock-up seems kinda stupid if your protecting your family and property, some places only deadly protection as a last resort if the event is life threatining (have to make all reasonable efforts to escape from the intruder) as in no possible escape. most your supposed to lock your self in your room and pray they dont engage you.
law's are so arbitrary its madening, I had sat on many Petit Jury panels over allot of stupid stuff done by criminals allot repeat offenders (rember that isant admissable) lets just pretend that for just today this guy hasent been honeing his criminal trade for years and portray him today as a innocent, most the Perp's did it, but wasent enough to make it stick, wielding a log splitting maul at a family in ther livingroom was dropped for insufficent evidence seems to stand out in my memory.
i think some these laws are cruel, I personally know a co-worker that had a false claim made against him (girlfriend was beat up by older brother) drunk & passed out boyfriend was hauled to the pokey for domestic violence he musta mumbled somthing when drunk cause they charged him, then he dident have the $3000 to get a attorney to beat the wrap so pleaded no contest (his dumb mistake), he hasent any other violations up to today "11 years latter" he cannot buy a firearm now, why would a stupid law deny him a shotgun to go hunting? it sweeps him in the dust pan with drug dealers, murders, sex offenders. he would like to get a job flying for the govt but cannot, barred by some drunken BS too many years past to matter, he has paid his fine and did the jail sentence still he is held accountable.
now if he had 3 violations in the last 3 years I can see that.
So in closeing is JUSTICE a outmoded ideal?
Last edited by Rex in OTZ; 12-17-2008 at 07:04 PM.
"Are we a nation ruled by men or by laws?" 
= Our Government
