[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by samuel

". I'm a "HICK". I'm a "HICK" Mic "HICK" hig "HICK" an "HICK" "HICK" and proud "HICK" of "HICK" it!!! "HICK"HICK". sam."HICK".

Sam. Didn't we tell you to stay out of that moonshine?

[rockman7]

"SON" ? roflol.......i pegged you in 2 seconds!

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by rockman7

"SON" ? roflol.......i pegged you in 2 seconds!

You did? Congrats. I'm impressed by the speed with which your mind functions. Of course you got it all dead wrong, but hey...who expects speed and accuracy?.

[SightNSqueeze]

Quote:       Originally Posted by jimkim

There are a few things that have changed since the last time. We not only have industries here this time, we also have oil, natural gas, coal and nuclear power. Another thing that is different is the lack of men to fight on the other side. Why would they want to fight? What would secession have to do with them? What would the feds do, bring back the draft? That would go over real well. Where there is no resolve to fight there can be no victory. By the way I am in favor of a constitutional convention. I am not in favor of secession, at least not right now. I hope it never comes to it, but if it does I am for Georgia.

I hope it never comes to that too. If the Confederacy had won the Civil War, it would have emerged, at least for a while, a conglomeration of weak feudal states, and likewise, a greatly reduced United States to the north would have faced internal struggles of its own. Both reduced, financially broke, and war wary countries would have been easy targets for foreign invasion and fragmentation from within. We all know what happened when the Union won the war. Nobody would want a repeat of that either.


Let’s hope that if anybody leaves this great republic, it will be the sorry and despicable new order that lurks in Washington following the 2010 and 2012 elections and not the good people of Georgia or any other state.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by SightNSqueeze

I hope it never comes to that too. If the Confederacy had won the Civil War, it would have emerged, at least for a while, a conglomeration of weak feudal states, and likewise, a greatly reduced United States to the north would have faced internal struggles of its own. Both reduced, financially broke, and war wary countries would have been easy targets for foreign invasion and fragmentation from within. We all know what happened when the Union won the war. Nobody would want a repeat of that either. Let’s hope that if anybody leaves this great republic, it will be the sorry and despicable new order that lurks in Washington following the 2010 and 2012 elections and not the good people of Georgia or any other state.

The Confederate government had the same problems the United States had under the original Articles of Confederation, before the Constitution was written: it had too little power to do its job.

It was unable to collect needed tax revenues, and was unable to put together a proper national military; some states refused to let their troops cross state lines to help other states. Individual Confederate states even printed their own paper money.

Because the Confederate government was unable to levy and collect meaningful taxes, it only derived about one percent of its income from them. Another 39% came from loans--and the rest came straight off the printing press, resulting in raging inflation.

And so on, and so forth. In other words, the Southern Confederacy was dysfunctional--just like the whole country was, before the Constitution glued the states togeter, and made it clear they were parts of a whole, instead of just being independent little countries banded together for convenience.

Had it been won its independence, the South would either have had to create its own stronger central government--thus nullifying the reason for secession--or keep scraping along as a gaggle of weak, squabbling little individual prinipalities. In that case, they'd have been picked off one at a time by the French, the Spanish, or the USA.

And as SightNSqueeze points out, the split wouldn't have done the North any good either; it would have been much weakened.

[blindmage]

You all seem to misunderstand me, I am in no way advocating any form of rebirth of the Confederacy. I want Georgia to rule Georgia just as our founding fathers intended. And I want Georgia, or any state for that matter, to have the right to say to the powers in Washington D.C. 'Screw you guys, I'm going home.' Entaingling alliances and foreign powers (even within your own 'Nation') are the enemies of freedom.

Oh and Troy and Rockman, thanks for the entertainment.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by blindmage

You all seem to misunderstand me, I am in no way advocating any form of rebirth of the Confederacy. I want Georgia to rule Georgia just as our founding fathers intended. And I want Georgia, or any state for that matter, to have the right to say to the powers in Washington D.C. 'Screw you guys, I'm going home.' Entaingling alliances and foreign powers (even within your own 'Nation') are the enemies of freedom. Oh and Troy and Rockman, thanks for the entertainment.

Always happy to do what I can to entertain the troops, blindmage.

[BattleRifleG3]

What I think is key to our crisis is that roughly the two halves of the country want such drastically different governments that a compromise is impossible. We can't have it both ways under the same nation.

If government ultimately derives its mandate from the consent of the governed, one way or another half the country is going to get screwed, not because everyone's right, but because ultimately people deserve the government they want. When that's two completely different things, you need two different governments and two different nations/states whose people can live separately and in peace.

Our founding fathers tried to do that by maintaining state governments and having a limited federal government that served as a check against tyranny outside or inside. So part of our problem is that a new single constitution won't fix anything because our Constitution already has the answers and people just don't follow it.

What I think needs to happen is for everyone to admit how serious the situation is. Unlike what Garfolo said lately, the recent tax rallies aren't a bunch of racists, and returning members of the military aren't a bunch of Timothy Mcveighs. They are real people who represent many other people, all of whom matter and none of whom should be dismissed and screwed over.

If we can't live together, which is becoming increasingly so, we have to find a way to live separately. Just like a relationship where people hate and hurt one another on an increasing level, the best course of action is to part in peace before it becomes entirely abusive and destructive.

I think a serious option that needs to be on the table is separating into two countries and figuring out how to do it without screwing everyone over. If we keep having a government that at least half the country doesn't want, it will ultimately lead to the same thing, but with violence and the serious possibility of being invaded and/or desolated.

[blindmage]

well said

[Annie Oakleaf]

Acutally,rockman7, without agriculture, the USA would hit its knees so fast it'd make everyone's heads spin. Ag. is the backbone of this county



I'm just glad that GA didn't vote for you-know-who couple months back. Gotta pick and choose though. Sometimes I guess it'd be better to agree to disagree.. which some folks (not saying anyone here) don't look at it that way (refering to some folks I know in person)

[one in the pipe]

To whom it may concern, You can not talk our kind of sense into the kalifornia branch save your breath.

[JG12gauge]

I think the liberal government would be to afraid to have any wars if a state seceeded. Unlike when lincoln was in office the modern politicians today would either not go to war at all or pull out after about 1 month of fighting and anti war protests.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by JG12gauge

I think the liberal government would be to afraid to have any wars if a state seceeded. Unlike when lincoln was in office the modern politicians today would either not go to war at all or pull out after about 1 month of fighting and anti war protests.

Uh huh. Because Clinton didn't fight any wars; Johnson didn't fight any wars; Kennedy didn't fight any wars; neither did Truman or FDR; and Obama certainly isn't fighting any....

[one in the pipe]

none of them faught a war they sent men to their deaths that is true but none really faught . r re

[billy]

never happen
ever!

[Chad Morrison]

Ah well. Why not let this be my first post here. I'll go ahead and collect all the labels I'll be branded with early.

First off, It's only picking up speed. Resolution 632 was passed with a 43-1 Vote in favor of 'branching away' from the Federal Government. It's a well founded document of which I will post after I finish my rant.

First off NO ONE can say what would have happened had the Confederacy held off the Yankee Invasion. We can only speculate. Like any fledgling government we would have had our woes and so on, but it simply was not meant to be. THEN. But as the old tale goes, passed from Generation to Generation...The South will Rise Again has lasted for a long time, but grown. In new ways. Further still the South did not secede simply to 'go to war' with the Union. That was not the goal. Most of what we did can be called strategic DEFENSE.

And Facts are facts. We had less, and killed more. So keep that in mind as well. MOTIVATION goes a LOOOOOOONG way. It's funny. It gets mentioned and all of a sudden people chime in about us not learning our lesson. What lesson was that? They chime in about how we would lose. Are you already plotting attack and war on us were we to walk away from this disgrace of a Union, and Country who's people have let it violate their freedom? If so, you're more 'UnAmerican' then those of us who Secede.

The Liberal and Bias Unionized Nationalistic Media has done it's best to insult and mock the Southern Culture in every way it can. It's attempted to make the Southerners feel some remorse about our history, or what we came from. Most look at the South down their nose. The Confederate States of America is crucified in todays institutions of socio-political indoctrination because it dared to resist centralized authority. For the same reason, Abraham Lincolns strong beliefs that blacks should never hold office or intermarry with whites is ignored. He also wanted to export all blacks after the war and said that if he could have saved the Union without freeing a single slave he would have done so. This is not to excuse slavery or racism, both of which should be opposed and both of which have existed since the beginnings of human civilization. Consider, for example, the overt slavery which existed in Egypt and Israel and the economic slavery in which you and I live today.

Southerners are regarded as subhuman via the mockery of their colloquialisms and culture. The same Internationalist tyranny which despises the South also despises the State of Israel. This is no accident, since the Confederacy and Jewish presence are inextricably interlinked.

For one thing, the Constitution of South Carolina gave Jews a homeland of sorts for the first time in centuries. For another, the contributions of such men as Benjamin P. Judah, The brains of the Confederacy, and Florida Senator David Levy Yulee cannot be overstated. In our day, some of Israels strongest supporters are the Evangelical Christians in the former Confederate States of America.

We will not sit idly by should the Obama administration turn its back on Israel. The cause expressed by Georgia will be joined by many Jews, Neoconservatives, Southern Independence seekers, and other Nationalists in and out of uniform. Couple this with the growing disenchantment towards the federal government regarding its mishandling of the current financial crisis..

Again. Fine. HOWEVER putting up with NEWSWEEKS cover of 'We're All Socialist Now' and watching Obama operate the Country like a 'Don' can and will NO LONGER be TOLERATED. Things are already bad between the red and blue. THIS we won't stand for. Thus que Bill 632. Que people fed up. Que tension and people waiting in silence not speaking out finally getting to their breaking point.

They say it's the silent ones you have to watch out for.

Que Obama's 'Civilian' ((Hitler Youth)) Army. Bascially a 'Minority' Army. And Minority people thrive on this sort of thing...coming into effect. Hell Obama speaks to the same people rioting over teh Lakers win. People who look for an excuse to be sorry. He speaks to them and puts a leash on them.

The 'Majority' sit in fear wondering WTF is next...We raise them on MTV, and they become Emo. They had sooner let their girlfriend get raped while they watch as opposed to fire a gun. They just want the 'promise' of saftey.

There are two basic trends vying for global dominance: Nationalism and Internationalism. The Internationalist trend is dedicated to the imposition of centralized global authority; Nationalism following in suit on a nation-wide basis.


...and we have the seeds of the next American Civil and Social War. We have the seeds for Secession.

What won't be supported is the continuation of Nationalism, and or Globalization. To hell with that. I'm not for a Constitutional rewrite. Further Obama has proven he is the type of Radical Plagerist/Idealist who thinks he's right, and what is good for him is good for everyone.

I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT SECESSION. It's the only way out now.

And Troy, better I say this now as opposed then wait until later. YOU DON'T HAVE A F'IN CLUE man. NOT a F'IN Clue in the World. Your retoric is of the MOST uninformed Egomanical Liberal CRAP since Michael Moore got off the Short Bus at Hollywood.

You belong where you are. Right there with the rest of the Paper Patriots.

[Chad Morrison]

Oh and incidentally...I Secede.

[Chad Morrison]

[SIZE=undefined]09[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]Senate Resolution 632[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]By: Senators Pearson of the 51st, Rogers of the 21st, Williams of the 19th, Wiles of the 37th, Mullis of the 53rd and others [/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined] [/SIZE][SIZE=undefined]ADOPTED SENATE[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]A RESOLUTION[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]Affirming states' rights based on Jeffersonian principles; and for other purposes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]WHEREAS, the Ninth Amendment of the United States Constitution states "[t]he enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" and the Tenth Amendment states "[t]he powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE SENATE that this body reaffirms the principles of government expressed by Thomas Jefferson in a resolution written for the Kentucky legislature in 1798 stating that the several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their General Government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a General Government for special purposes, -- delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force; that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral party, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress; and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]That the Constitution of the United States, having delegated to Congress a power to punish treason, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States, piracies, and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations, slavery, and no other crimes whatsoever; and it being true as a general principle, and one of the amendments to the Constitution having also declared, that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," therefore all acts of Congress which assume to create, define, or punish crimes, other than those so enumerated in the Constitution are altogether void, and of no force; and that the power to create, define, and punish such other crimes is reserved, and, of right, appertains solely and exclusively to the respective States, each within its own territory; and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]That it is true as a general principle, and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the Constitution, that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people;" and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, and were reserved to the States or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated, rather than the use be destroyed. And thus also they guarded against all abridgment by the United States of the freedom of religious opinions and exercises, and retained to themselves the right of protecting the same. And that in addition to this general principle and express declaration, another and more special provision has been made by one of the amendments to the Constitution, which expressly declares, that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press": thereby guarding in the same sentence, and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press: insomuch, that whatever violated either, throws down the sanctuary which covers the others, and that libels, falsehood, and defamation, equally with heresy and false religion, are withheld from the cognizance of federal tribunals. That, therefore, all acts of Congress of the United States which do abridge the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, are not law, but are altogether void, and of no force; and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]That the construction applied by the General Government (as is evidenced by sundry of their proceedings) to those parts of the Constitution of the United States which delegate to Congress a power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imports, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," and "to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the powers vested by the Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof," goes to the destruction of all limits prescribed to their power by the Constitution: that words meant by the instrument to be subsidiary only to the execution of limited powers, ought not to be so construed as themselves to give unlimited powers, nor a part to be so taken as to destroy the whole residue of that instrument: that the proceedings of the General Government under color of these articles, will be a fit and necessary subject of revisal and correction; and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]That a committee of conference and correspondence be appointed, which shall have as its charge to communicate the preceding resolutions to the Legislatures of the several States; to assure them that this State continues in the same esteem of their friendship and union which it has manifested from that moment at which a common danger first suggested a common union: that it considers union, for specified national purposes, and particularly to those specified in their federal compact, to be friendly to the peace, happiness and prosperity of all the States: that faithful to that compact, according to the plain intent and meaning in which it was understood and acceded to by the several parties, it is sincerely anxious for its preservation: that it does also believe, that to take from the States all the powers of self-government and transfer them to a general and consolidated government, without regard to the special delegations and reservations solemnly agreed to in that compact, is not for the peace, happiness or prosperity of these States; and that therefore this State is determined, as it doubts not its co-States are, to submit to undelegated, and consequently unlimited powers in no man, or body of men on earth: that in cases of an abuse of the delegated powers, the members of the General Government, being chosen by the people, a change by the people would be the constitutional remedy; but, where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy: that every State has a natural right in cases not within the compact, ([/SIZE][SIZE=undefined]casus non foederis[/SIZE][SIZE=undefined]), to nullify of their own authority all assumptions of power by others within their limits: that without this right, they would be under the dominion, absolute and unlimited, of whosoever might exercise this right of judgment for them: that nevertheless, this State, from motives of regard and respect for its co-States, has wished to communicate with them on the subject: that with them alone it is proper to communicate, they alone being parties to the compact, and solely authorized to judge in the last resort of the powers exercised under it, Congress being not a party, but merely the creature of the compact, and subject as to its assumptions of power to the final judgment of those by whom, and for whose use itself and its powers were all created and modified: that if the acts before specified should stand, these conclusions would flow from them: that it would be a dangerous delusion were a confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety of our rights: that confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism -- free government is founded in jealousy, and not in confidence; it is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind down those whom we are obliged to trust with power: that our Constitution has accordingly fixed the limits to which, and no further, our confidence may go. In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution. That this State does therefore call on its co-States for an expression of their sentiments on acts not authorized by the federal compact. And it doubts not that their sense will be so announced as to prove their attachment unaltered to limited government, whether general or particular. And that the rights and liberties of their co-States will be exposed to no dangers by remaining embarked in a common bottom with their own. That they will concur with this State in considering acts as so palpably against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States, of all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of the States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government, with a power assumed to bind the States, not merely as the cases made federal, ([/SIZE][SIZE=undefined]casus foederis[/SIZE][SIZE=undefined],) but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with their consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one deriving its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal, will concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others of the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the Constitution, shall be exercised within their respective territories; and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]That the said committee be authorized to communicate by writing or personal conferences, at any times or places whatever, with any person or person who may be appointed by any one or more co-States to correspond or confer with them; and that they lay their proceedings before the next session of the General Court.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which assumes a power not delegated to the government of the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States of America and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America. Acts which would cause such a nullification include, but are not limited to:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]I. Establishing martial law or a state of emergency within one of the States comprising the United States of America without the consent of the legislature of that State.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]II. Requiring involuntary servitude, or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]III. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]IV. Surrendering any power delegated or not delegated to any corporation or foreign government.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]V. Any act regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]VI. Further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms including prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition; and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=undefined]That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=undefined]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Secretary of the Senate is authorized and directed to transmit an appropriate copy of this resolution to the President of the United States, each member of the United States Congress. [/SIZE]

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Chad Morrison

And Troy, better I say this now as opposed then wait until later. YOU DON'T HAVE A F'IN CLUE man. NOT a F'IN Clue in the World. Your retoric is of the MOST uninformed Egomanical Liberal CRAP since Michael Moore got off the Short Bus at Hollywood. You belong where you are. Right there with the rest of the Paper Patriots.

You, sir, are completely full of hot air, and spewing bravado and BS completely disconnected from reality. You wouldn't know the difference between rhetoric and facts if someone branded the definitions on your forehead and forced you look in a mirror. You're an embarrassment to the South, where most of my ancestors are from.

And of course, I mean that observation in the kindest, most positive way possible.....

[Chad Morrison]

FURTHER STILL you can hear OBAMA SAY IT PERSONALLY...The 'Government' can take away your right. Just because you have one doesn't mean they can't take it. He say's it at 1:10. THAT is why Secession is the only way out now.

Red and Blue cannot get along because Blue is FUBAR.

BMFS man.

YouTube - CNN-Obama:Gov can Take Rights and Guns

YouTube - CNN-Obama:Gov can Take Rights and Guns