Need help in identifying this rifle

Dale · 11-10-2002, 12:47 PM

I've been meaning to do this for some time but I keep forgetting.

I would appreciate it if anyone might be able to help ID this rifle.

I am relatively sure it's Turkish (by the stamps on top of the receiver) and I know it's 8MM.

What I don't know is the model.

I've searched and searched the internet and the closest I can come to on an ID is Turkish M1888/05/38 Commission. But, then again, I'm not totally convinced since this barrel is dated 1939. And, information, what I have found anyway, on Turk guns is somewhat limited on the net.

I'll post the following five pics.

Note that the magazine has a 'well' that opens in the floor plate similar to the Steyr M95 but in this case the five rounds feed through the top, one at a time, and the spring tongue seen in the well pushes the next shell up out of the mag area.

I would've posted this in the Turkish Mauser area but I wanted the chance of as many people looking at it as possible.

Thanks gang.

Dale · 11-10-2002, 12:49 PM

Dale · 11-10-2002, 12:50 PM

Dale · 11-10-2002, 12:51 PM

Dale · 11-10-2002, 12:53 PM

OK....last one.

Calvin · 11-10-2002, 03:33 PM

Dale, I believe your Turk is a Model 88/38, if my memory serves me corroectly. A friend of mine used to have a couple of them in his collection, and he told me some history on them, as I thought they were original Comission rifles.
The Turks had obtained a limited supply of 8mm Commision rifles from German reserves. The rifles were rebarreled to the modern .323 bore, and the bolts were reworked to also handle the modern round. I do know that most of these rifles were traded in favor of the-then-new M38 Mauser. The M38 is easier to work on, and the magazine is less sensitive to dirt and mud. The M88/38 were remanufactured until late 1943, with the majority being reworked in the 1938-1940 range. HTH.

wes · 11-10-2002, 03:57 PM

Looks like the 1888 commision rifle,does it have a shroud over the barrel? I would be kind of careful about shooting these with 8mm,they really aren't stong enough.

PAPA G · 11-10-2002, 04:06 PM

that is one pretty rifle!!!! i agree with Cal, he's pretty much covered it. US loaded soft point is supposedly loaded low because of all the older actions like the 88, but i cannot verify that. the barrel shroud was discarder when the Turks modified the stocks to conform more with the M-98 rifles. where did you find that beauty??? you lucky dog!!!:nod:

Dale · 11-10-2002, 07:16 PM

I took a ride sometime back and wandered into a mom and pop gun store up in the White Mountains.

They had it there but knew absolutely less than I did about it. On a whim I slipped them $69 dollars and brought it home.

I knew enough about it to know it was more than likely 8MM which I confirmed but the gunsmith that checked it out wasn't around when I picked it up and his wife, of course, knew nothing about the gun.

It's in great condition. I've shot mil surp through it. It's average accurate and bellows like a cheated madam at a house of ill repute.

But if it is a model 88/38 is that the same as the 1888/05/38 Commission rifle or is that a bird of another flock? And I've heard it's the Commission rifle to be careful and not shoot modern loads through....true?

Anyway, thanks Calvin, Wes and Papa for your input....it sure is appreciated.

Indy · 11-10-2002, 11:03 PM

Dale
It sure is in great shape, beautiful rifle. Please remember Turk 8mm milsurp ammo is pretty hot even for the stronger mausers. I have 3 m38s and the charges really jolt you. Many guys on Tuco's board pull the projectile and reduce the powder charge to fire in their 38s.
Indy

colt45 · 11-11-2002, 12:19 PM

I'd go with an 88.

psycho dad · 11-11-2002, 01:44 PM

the nra in the american rifleman, april 1995, has alot of historical info on these turkish mausers. you can order a duplicate copy of this issue thru highwood bookshop, p.o. box 1246 , traverse city, michigan 49685. phone is 616-271-3898. cost is 2.00 per issue, minimum order is 5.00 plus shipping

Calvin · 11-11-2002, 02:40 PM

It's the same animal, dale. They SHOULD be thoroughly checked out, and only use low-pressure ammo in them. The bores are the later JS round, which is .323. Just take it easy and she'll be around for a while.

Snakebite · 11-11-2002, 05:34 PM

I know that the commercial 8mm from Winchester or Remington is loaded down for the many old rifles in existance. Maximum pressure is limited to 37,000 cup. The military ammo is 57,000 and can even go slightly higher. Thats a huge difference and I doubt that your 88 was designed for that kind of pressure. Be safe and don't use the milsurp!

Dale · 11-11-2002, 06:24 PM

10-4 on using only the lesser pressure commercial stuff.

When I first got the rifle some moons ago I got a box of Winchester only because it's what I could find at the time. Thankfully the shop didn't have any of the milsurp stuff because, in ignorance, I might have gotten that.

So, all I have ever shot through it was theWinchester and man, did it rock!

There is something about the 8MMs that just run me on...ooo oooo oooooooooooo

jerry · 11-29-2005, 07:46 PM

still got this rifle Dale??

Dale · 11-30-2005, 10:06 AM

Yep...it's a wall hanger, though.

I don't trust the receiver steel strength since I've done far more research since that thread was posted.

In fact, it was the advice of two gunsmiths to just look at her rather than shoot her.

inuyasha · 11-30-2005, 10:25 AM

just had to go and say how unsafe that is didnt you... ive got a 8mm turkish mauser and ALL i have for it is milsurp.. 300 rounds of it to be exact, all came with the gun.. ive put about 100 rounds through it this year with no problem but i question selling the gun now.. a friend wants to buy it but if it is rather unsafe with milsurp....
i admit still though that ive been itching, even now, to go out and use it some more... my sks would get jealous though.. the 10/22 and the sks are all ive been taking out for a while... perhaps one of these days ill take my 7.62 and the 8mm out.. niced mauser ive seen for an 1891

Dale · 11-30-2005, 10:32 AM

inuyasha, of course I was referring to my 88/38 Commission Turk.

There are later model Turk 8MMs out there that are perfectly safe to shoot....such as those K98s they built from German help and equipment.

Who knows, I might be able to shoot mine for hours on end with no problems.

On the other hand I might have regrets firing that first round.

I dunno, inuyasha, I have this thing about trying to keep my head in one piece.

LOL

inuyasha · 11-30-2005, 10:37 AM

indeed, but yours looks 100% identical to mine, and mine is somewhere in the early 40s.. im not home to check right now but its a 43 or a 45 i believe... plus mine is a definite parts gun, not a single serial number on it matches to another one. plus who wants a head in one piece, 2 chunks of head are better than one.. or maybe im getting the quote a bit wrong :P

11-10-2002, 03:33 PM	#6
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,016	Dale, I believe your Turk is a Model 88/38, if my memory serves me corroectly. A friend of mine used to have a couple of them in his collection, and he told me some history on them, as I thought they were original Comission rifles. The Turks had obtained a limited supply of 8mm Commision rifles from German reserves. The rifles were rebarreled to the modern .323 bore, and the bolts were reworked to also handle the modern round. I do know that most of these rifles were traded in favor of the-then-new M38 Mauser. The M38 is easier to work on, and the magazine is less sensitive to dirt and mud. The M88/38 were remanufactured until late 1943, with the majority being reworked in the 1938-1940 range. HTH. __________________ If you don't like cops, call your local crackhead for help next time!

11-10-2002, 04:06 PM	#8
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 11	OOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEE.............. that is one pretty rifle!!!! i agree with Cal, he's pretty much covered it. US loaded soft point is supposedly loaded low because of all the older actions like the 88, but i cannot verify that. the barrel shroud was discarder when the Turks modified the stocks to conform more with the M-98 rifles. where did you find that beauty??? you lucky dog!!!:nod:

11-10-2002, 07:16 PM	#9
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	I took a ride sometime back and wandered into a mom and pop gun store up in the White Mountains. They had it there but knew absolutely less than I did about it. On a whim I slipped them $69 dollars and brought it home. I knew enough about it to know it was more than likely 8MM which I confirmed but the gunsmith that checked it out wasn't around when I picked it up and his wife, of course, knew nothing about the gun. It's in great condition. I've shot mil surp through it. It's average accurate and bellows like a cheated madam at a house of ill repute. But if it is a model 88/38 is that the same as the 1888/05/38 Commission rifle or is that a bird of another flock? And I've heard it's the Commission rifle to be careful and not shoot modern loads through....true? Anyway, thanks Calvin, Wes and Papa for your input....it sure is appreciated. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

11-11-2002, 12:19 PM	#11
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	I'd go with an 88. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

11-11-2002, 02:40 PM	#13
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,016	It's the same animal, dale. They SHOULD be thoroughly checked out, and only use low-pressure ammo in them. The bores are the later JS round, which is .323. Just take it easy and she'll be around for a while. __________________ If you don't like cops, call your local crackhead for help next time!

11-10-2002, 03:57 PM	#7
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,905	Looks like the 1888 commision rifle,does it have a shroud over the barrel? I would be kind of careful about shooting these with 8mm,they really aren't stong enough.

11-10-2002, 11:03 PM	#10
Indy Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 336	Dale It sure is in great shape, beautiful rifle. Please remember Turk 8mm milsurp ammo is pretty hot even for the stronger mausers. I have 3 m38s and the charges really jolt you. Many guys on Tuco's board pull the projectile and reduce the powder charge to fire in their 38s. Indy

11-11-2002, 01:44 PM	#12
psycho dad Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 97	the nra in the american rifleman, april 1995, has alot of historical info on these turkish mausers. you can order a duplicate copy of this issue thru highwood bookshop, p.o. box 1246 , traverse city, michigan 49685. phone is 616-271-3898. cost is 2.00 per issue, minimum order is 5.00 plus shipping

11-11-2002, 05:34 PM	#14
Snakebite Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tucson, Mexico Posts: 1,844	I know that the commercial 8mm from Winchester or Remington is loaded down for the many old rifles in existance. Maximum pressure is limited to 37,000 cup. The military ammo is 57,000 and can even go slightly higher. Thats a huge difference and I doubt that your 88 was designed for that kind of pressure. Be safe and don't use the milsurp!

11-11-2002, 06:24 PM	#15
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	10-4 on using only the lesser pressure commercial stuff. When I first got the rifle some moons ago I got a box of Winchester only because it's what I could find at the time. Thankfully the shop didn't have any of the milsurp stuff because, in ignorance, I might have gotten that. So, all I have ever shot through it was theWinchester and man, did it rock! There is something about the 8MMs that just run me on...ooo oooo oooooooooooo __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

11-29-2005, 07:46 PM	#16
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11,117 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	still got this rifle Dale?? __________________ Joe the plumber is screwed

11-30-2005, 10:06 AM	#17
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Yep...it's a wall hanger, though. I don't trust the receiver steel strength since I've done far more research since that thread was posted. In fact, it was the advice of two gunsmiths to just look at her rather than shoot her. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

11-30-2005, 10:25 AM	#18
inuyasha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US occupied territories of "south dakota" Posts: 357	just had to go and say how unsafe that is didnt you... ive got a 8mm turkish mauser and ALL i have for it is milsurp.. 300 rounds of it to be exact, all came with the gun.. ive put about 100 rounds through it this year with no problem but i question selling the gun now.. a friend wants to buy it but if it is rather unsafe with milsurp.... i admit still though that ive been itching, even now, to go out and use it some more... my sks would get jealous though.. the 10/22 and the sks are all ive been taking out for a while... perhaps one of these days ill take my 7.62 and the 8mm out.. niced mauser ive seen for an 1891 Last edited by inuyasha; 11-30-2005 at 10:28 AM.

11-30-2005, 10:32 AM	#19
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	inuyasha, of course I was referring to my 88/38 Commission Turk. There are later model Turk 8MMs out there that are perfectly safe to shoot....such as those K98s they built from German help and equipment. Who knows, I might be able to shoot mine for hours on end with no problems. On the other hand I might have regrets firing that first round. I dunno, inuyasha, I have this thing about trying to keep my head in one piece. LOL __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

11-30-2005, 10:37 AM	#20
inuyasha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US occupied territories of "south dakota" Posts: 357	indeed, but yours looks 100% identical to mine, and mine is somewhere in the early 40s.. im not home to check right now but its a 43 or a 45 i believe... plus mine is a definite parts gun, not a single serial number on it matches to another one. plus who wants a head in one piece, 2 chunks of head are better than one.. or maybe im getting the quote a bit wrong :P