Anti-tax Group Makes 'Final Warning' to Federal Government

Doglips · 11-17-2002, 06:07 AM

I of course support this movement....of course Im also on the IRS "pigglet list" (kinda like the Sht list but a few rungs lower)...

Anti-tax Group Makes 'Final Warning' to Federal Government
Michael L. Betsch, CNSNews.com
Saturday, Nov. 16, 2002
WASHINGTON – A cross-country anti-tax rally culminated in the nation's capital Thursday, with several hundred protesters warning all branches of the federal government to "obey the Constitution, or else."
The conservatives and Libertarians attending the rally said their protest should serve as a wake-up call to lawmakers, but the Anti-Defamation League regards the protest as an "extremist" threat.

"The tax protest movement is a right-wing extremist movement," said Mark Pitcavage, director of "fact finding" for ADL. "You're not talking about tax reformers here. You're talking about people who have incredible conspiracy theories about the government."

ADL considers those who organized and attended the anti-tax rally to be such a serious threat that it included the group on its monthly calendar of "extremist events." Pitcavage said that the event's organizer, a group called "We The People Congress," advocated an agenda that is "so far out of the mainstream" that the group has disenfranchised itself from the rest of American society.

"These are people who do not think simply that taxes are too high or want tax reform," Pitcavage said. "They have convinced themselves they do not have to pay taxes and that there's a major government conspiracy designed to cover up that fact."

Pitcavage warned that the anti-tax movement was not confined to protest rallies.

"It's also a movement that has been linked strongly to violence, to attacks on IRS agents, to blowing up IRS offices, as well as many other crimes," he said. "There's a great deal of criminal activity associated with the movement."

If I Could Turn Back Time

A spokesman for We The People Congress dismissed ADL's accusations as "an incredible propaganda campaign." Mike Bodine said the sole purpose of the anti-tax rally, called Freedom Drive 2002, was to restore the Constitution to what it was in 1776.

"Frankly, I don't understand how trying to uphold and defend the Constitution of this nation can be construed to be an extremist event by anybody," Bodine said. Unfortunately, we do question government."

According to Bodine, his group has issued four "petitions for redress of grievances" to the federal government. Those petitions challenge the constitutional legitimacy and legality of the federal income tax, the Federal Reserve, the War Powers clause and the USA Patriot Act.

The first petition states that there is no legal authority for the federal government to enforce the federal income tax on average Americans. He said research conducted by We The People Congress included the sworn testimony of IRS agents and CPAs who support the group's claim.

The second petition accuses the federal government of auctioning off the U.S. Treasury to the highest-bidding corporations, financiers and campaign contributors.

We The People Congress has also demanded that Congress and the president adhere to the Constitution's War Powers clause in the imminent war against Iraq. The Constitution mandates that Congress must pass a formal declaration of war before the U.S. can commit troops to battle, Bodine said. A resolution, such as that recently passed by Congress, is not enough, the group insists.
"The reason that they don't make a formal declaration of war anymore, and that we haven't since World War II, is that it's very, very politically difficult to do," Bodine said. "But that's exactly why the Founding Fathers put it in there. It was supposed to be difficult to do."

Bodine said his group's final petition condemned Congress for passing the USA Patriot Act, which he said contains language that clearly violates the Constitution. According to Bodine, the law makes it legal for law enforcement officials to disregard the "search and seizure" clause contained in the Fourth Amendment.
Million Gun March to 'Dislodge' the Government

"We're trying to give the government a warning, kind of like a final warning," said Rick Stanley, a Denver businessman and member of the Libertarian Party, who recently tried to unseat Sen. Wayne Allard, R-Colo.

In March, Stanley released a comprehensive list of demands, including repeal of "all unconstitutional laws" at all levels of government. "In other words, they've been given the petition for redress of grievances many times, and the bottom line is we want them to obey the Constitution ... or else," he said.

Asked what "or else" means, Stanley was evasive, but he hinted at armed rebellion, mentioning a "Million Gun March" he is planning for July 4, 2003.

"We're coming to make sure that they comply with the Constitution and with our petition demands.

"To me, it [the Million Gun March] will be the thing that dislodges the government that has overthrown America from its perch. And what's going to happen is 'We, the people' will be running the government from that day forward."

Stanley and Bob Schulz, the latter the chairman of We The People Congress, are urging anti-tax activists to stop paying their income taxes, which both men say they already have done.

Stanley said his message to the federal government was clear: "We're cutting off your funding. We're cutting off your money supply."

But Stanley does not believe the vast majority of Americans will join his income-tax rebellion against the federal government. He expressed the need for something "bigger," that "something" being the "million gun" event.

"On that day, we'll be coming armed," Stanley warned. "And then we're going to have rallies at every state capital in all 50 states at the same time," he said.

Asked by CNSNews.com how he intended to deal with the District of Columbia's gun laws (the D.C. code says, "Carrying a handgun in the District is prohibited"), Stanley showed no concern.

"What about D.C.'s gun laws?" Stanley asked. "They're null and void. Anything that violates the U.S. Constitution - and the Supreme Court has said it probably a thousand times - it's null and void, as if it never existed," he said.

According to Stanley's Web site, the million gun march will be held only if at least 1 million people sign a petition guaranteeing their presence at the march.

Copyright CNSNews.com

wes · 11-17-2002, 10:31 AM

It's about time,and there are some valid points here.

NRAJOE · 11-17-2002, 01:38 PM

Heck, aren't you the Grand Poobah of that movement?????

Doglips · 11-17-2002, 03:07 PM

Guess Id be considered a lone wolf....not even on their mailing list yet....got to admit the got some good points.........

Klaus · 11-18-2002, 12:07 PM

There actually was never any law passed REQUIRING citizens to pay the Federal Income Tax.

BenP · 11-18-2002, 03:58 PM

Umm, what is the sixteenth amendment supposed to cover? I don't see where it specifically excludes personal income from the list. Rather the language seems to be all-inclusive.

Klaus · 11-18-2002, 11:15 PM

This is the 16th ammendment: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
It gives Congress the power to tax incomes, without apportionment. The thing is, technically, Congress NEVER passed any such law, like I stated before. In other words, they had the power to pass an income tax law on individuals, but did not do so. It is the EXECUTIVE branch that came up with the IRS regulations and penalties.

dhermesc · 11-19-2002, 05:25 PM

If I recall correctly income tax was a tempory policy to pay for the Spanish American War (or was it WW1)? FDR expanded it in the depression (just what every needed was new taxes in a depression). Much the same way IRS codes and regulations are treated and enforced as law, even though no congressman has voted on them.

Rave · 11-25-2002, 09:20 PM

The IRS is the most powerful branch of the gummint,don't even need warrents to wipe out whole families.I wouldn't be surprised if they didn' t search,find "evidence",and prosicute those on the anti-tax group and if that failed......the terrorism would start,and I don't mean by the ragheads!:nod: :nod: :nod:

11-17-2002, 06:07 AM	#1
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,089	Anti-tax Group Makes 'Final Warning' to Federal Government I of course support this movement....of course Im also on the IRS "pigglet list" (kinda like the Sht list but a few rungs lower)... Anti-tax Group Makes 'Final Warning' to Federal Government Michael L. Betsch, CNSNews.com Saturday, Nov. 16, 2002 WASHINGTON – A cross-country anti-tax rally culminated in the nation's capital Thursday, with several hundred protesters warning all branches of the federal government to "obey the Constitution, or else." The conservatives and Libertarians attending the rally said their protest should serve as a wake-up call to lawmakers, but the Anti-Defamation League regards the protest as an "extremist" threat. "The tax protest movement is a right-wing extremist movement," said Mark Pitcavage, director of "fact finding" for ADL. "You're not talking about tax reformers here. You're talking about people who have incredible conspiracy theories about the government." ADL considers those who organized and attended the anti-tax rally to be such a serious threat that it included the group on its monthly calendar of "extremist events." Pitcavage said that the event's organizer, a group called "We The People Congress," advocated an agenda that is "so far out of the mainstream" that the group has disenfranchised itself from the rest of American society. "These are people who do not think simply that taxes are too high or want tax reform," Pitcavage said. "They have convinced themselves they do not have to pay taxes and that there's a major government conspiracy designed to cover up that fact." Pitcavage warned that the anti-tax movement was not confined to protest rallies. "It's also a movement that has been linked strongly to violence, to attacks on IRS agents, to blowing up IRS offices, as well as many other crimes," he said. "There's a great deal of criminal activity associated with the movement." If I Could Turn Back Time A spokesman for We The People Congress dismissed ADL's accusations as "an incredible propaganda campaign." Mike Bodine said the sole purpose of the anti-tax rally, called Freedom Drive 2002, was to restore the Constitution to what it was in 1776. "Frankly, I don't understand how trying to uphold and defend the Constitution of this nation can be construed to be an extremist event by anybody," Bodine said. Unfortunately, we do question government." According to Bodine, his group has issued four "petitions for redress of grievances" to the federal government. Those petitions challenge the constitutional legitimacy and legality of the federal income tax, the Federal Reserve, the War Powers clause and the USA Patriot Act. The first petition states that there is no legal authority for the federal government to enforce the federal income tax on average Americans. He said research conducted by We The People Congress included the sworn testimony of IRS agents and CPAs who support the group's claim. The second petition accuses the federal government of auctioning off the U.S. Treasury to the highest-bidding corporations, financiers and campaign contributors. We The People Congress has also demanded that Congress and the president adhere to the Constitution's War Powers clause in the imminent war against Iraq. The Constitution mandates that Congress must pass a formal declaration of war before the U.S. can commit troops to battle, Bodine said. A resolution, such as that recently passed by Congress, is not enough, the group insists. "The reason that they don't make a formal declaration of war anymore, and that we haven't since World War II, is that it's very, very politically difficult to do," Bodine said. "But that's exactly why the Founding Fathers put it in there. It was supposed to be difficult to do." Bodine said his group's final petition condemned Congress for passing the USA Patriot Act, which he said contains language that clearly violates the Constitution. According to Bodine, the law makes it legal for law enforcement officials to disregard the "search and seizure" clause contained in the Fourth Amendment. Million Gun March to 'Dislodge' the Government "We're trying to give the government a warning, kind of like a final warning," said Rick Stanley, a Denver businessman and member of the Libertarian Party, who recently tried to unseat Sen. Wayne Allard, R-Colo. In March, Stanley released a comprehensive list of demands, including repeal of "all unconstitutional laws" at all levels of government. "In other words, they've been given the petition for redress of grievances many times, and the bottom line is we want them to obey the Constitution ... or else," he said. Asked what "or else" means, Stanley was evasive, but he hinted at armed rebellion, mentioning a "Million Gun March" he is planning for July 4, 2003. "We're coming to make sure that they comply with the Constitution and with our petition demands. "To me, it [the Million Gun March] will be the thing that dislodges the government that has overthrown America from its perch. And what's going to happen is 'We, the people' will be running the government from that day forward." Stanley and Bob Schulz, the latter the chairman of We The People Congress, are urging anti-tax activists to stop paying their income taxes, which both men say they already have done. Stanley said his message to the federal government was clear: "We're cutting off your funding. We're cutting off your money supply." But Stanley does not believe the vast majority of Americans will join his income-tax rebellion against the federal government. He expressed the need for something "bigger," that "something" being the "million gun" event. "On that day, we'll be coming armed," Stanley warned. "And then we're going to have rallies at every state capital in all 50 states at the same time," he said. Asked by CNSNews.com how he intended to deal with the District of Columbia's gun laws (the D.C. code says, "Carrying a handgun in the District is prohibited"), Stanley showed no concern. "What about D.C.'s gun laws?" Stanley asked. "They're null and void. Anything that violates the U.S. Constitution - and the Supreme Court has said it probably a thousand times - it's null and void, as if it never existed," he said. According to Stanley's Web site, the million gun march will be held only if at least 1 million people sign a petition guaranteeing their presence at the march. Copyright CNSNews.com

11-17-2002, 01:38 PM	#3
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,052 Images: 3	Heck, aren't you the Grand Poobah of that movement????? __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

11-18-2002, 12:07 PM	#5
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	There actually was never any law passed REQUIRING citizens to pay the Federal Income Tax. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

11-18-2002, 11:15 PM	#7
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	This is the 16th ammendment: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration. It gives Congress the power to tax incomes, without apportionment. The thing is, technically, Congress NEVER passed any such law, like I stated before. In other words, they had the power to pass an income tax law on individuals, but did not do so. It is the EXECUTIVE branch that came up with the IRS regulations and penalties. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

11-19-2002, 05:25 PM	#8
dhermesc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: East Central Kansas Posts: 1,762	If I recall correctly income tax was a tempory policy to pay for the Spanish American War (or was it WW1)? FDR expanded it in the depression (just what every needed was new taxes in a depression). Much the same way IRS codes and regulations are treated and enforced as law, even though no congressman has voted on them. __________________ Liberty is for those that claim it.

11-17-2002, 10:31 AM	#2
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906	It's about time,and there are some valid points here.

11-17-2002, 03:07 PM	#4
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,089	Guess Id be considered a lone wolf....not even on their mailing list yet....got to admit the got some good points.........

11-18-2002, 03:58 PM	#6
BenP Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 395	Umm, what is the sixteenth amendment supposed to cover? I don't see where it specifically excludes personal income from the list. Rather the language seems to be all-inclusive.

11-25-2002, 09:20 PM	#9
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,888	The IRS is the most powerful branch of the gummint,don't even need warrents to wipe out whole families.I wouldn't be surprised if they didn' t search,find "evidence",and prosicute those on the anti-tax group and if that failed......the terrorism would start,and I don't mean by the ragheads!:nod: :nod: :nod: __________________ USAF '62-'66 .