[thrillbilly]

Well, my brother brought his SKS down with him for the Fourth and we blasted a few hundred rounds through it. My youngest nephew (12) shot it and had us laughing with his "recoil-absorbing" stance ( started kneeling and ended up on his butt, lol). My wife tried it out, (her first time shooting a "EBR") and loved it! The ear to ear grin on her face as she rock and rolled a 30 round magazine was priceless. Judging by her delight, I think a SKS is in her future, lol. I found her Christmas present I think. We all enjoyed shooting it, even my 9 year-old niece. I will admit I was impressed by the accuracy a little, I was getting poker-card size groups offhand at 60 yards with the red-dot scope. We were shooting Wolf HPs.

[gwynn1975]

ThrillBilly-
I agree with most everyones replies.. Me personally.. I own an AR but I also own a Remington 700 chambered in .223.. I want my long guns to take the same ammo and all my pistols are 9mm.. Two reasons here: Very common rounds, and easy to come by financially.. I like the fact you thought about the distance aspect of the scenario, because that's why I have a bolt action, but my AR will be set along side of me, for the 100-200 yard screaming kamikaze's and my 12 ga for the "in close" ones..

Good luck with your decisions

[Jangle1965]

I want to pose a different scenario for the SHTF. Instead of confrontation and mass depletion of ammo, why not use concealment and conserve your ammo for food needs?

In a confrontation, someone is bound to be wounded or killed. Hopefully it is not one of your family members. If I can take my family away to an area of limited population quickly, that's where I'm going to have the best chance for survival.

There are still areas of limited to no population in this great country of ours. I live within 1 hour of a wilderness area and 3 hours away from some rough backcountry wilderness. Granted there may be others with the same idea I have, but not the insane masses of starving people in the cities.

GET BACK TO THE COUNTRY AND SURVIVE!

[scroamer65]

By the time you get to BO how many thousands of others do you think
might get the same idea. Massive traffic tie ups.

Is the BO area your going to public or private ??

Motorcycle gangs also pose a potantial hazard, and this is a ruf, ruf,
croward(sp). If you go it along, forget it. In a group, chances are improved.

In a SHTF, civil unrest it will take many many months to repair the damage
if not years.

Natural disasters, Katrina, it's taking a long, long, long, time to rebuild.

So if Bug Out is your thing plan on at least a month, food&water, etc.

Best advice I ever heard was "be where you want to be before
SHTF"

[jrswanson1]

For those of you inland, good for you! For those of us near a coast line, we'd have to worry about bugging out from our homes inland if, say, something big were to hit the ocean causing a massive wave to hit the shoreline and travel overland.

Jim

[don5544]

AR's or any other semi auto rifle can prove very accurate. I own assault rifles. One of my Ar's is a less than MOA rifle. That combined with a 30 rd clip and a bi pod can either deter agression or harvest food rather effectivly.

Spray and pray is dumb. A double tap is effective and warranted. Also ammo in military calibers can be rather cheap when bought in bulk.

Multipule guns in the same caliber is a must. Guns break. Shoot enough and youll find out.

My only gripe about a SKS is the ammo. I set up a SKS as a first hunting rifle for my sons when they were young. A soft point (for better expansion) will be deformed as its chambered. Most SKS an AK ammo has to have a hard core to feed right. I have killed several deer with a SKS. Ammo doesnt expand and over penitrates. It does kill them.

[SH(.)(.)TER]

I would get at least 1 assault rifle....Bushmaster 223 with about twenty 30 round mags!
Have em loaded and ready to go!

[SightNSqueeze]

Let’s look at history for a guide. All of those people who sought an Alamo/Waco/Ruby Ridge defense died where they stood. If the civilized world were to deteriorate, those who can fight on the move and stay on the move are the ones who will survive and succeed. Some examples include the South Carolina Back Country Patriots in 1780-81, Confederate partisans in the Western Campaign of the Civil War, the Plains Indians in the 1870s-80s, the Armenians against the Ottoman Turks, Filipino and American insurgents during the Japanese occupation of the Philippines, Soviet partisans during the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, the Viet-Mihn and Viet Cong in Vietnam against the French and the Americans, the Mujahidin of Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion and occupation in the 1980s, Chadian rebels against the Libyan Army, the Christian minority militias in Southern Sudan against the Sudanese Army, and the list goes on and on. With few exceptions, the people under the gun, so-to-speak, were armed with man-portable small arms of the simpler designs. It wasn't unusual for militia fighters to go into a fight with a mix of bolt action Mausers, Mosins and Enfields on the low end, and RPGs and 12.7mm heavy machine guns in the vanguard as in the case of the Afghan-Soviet War. Jazzed up armament like rail equipped, gizmo enhanced weaponry is the exception rather than the norm among loosely organized militias because of the training, logistics and maintenance to keep it up. Historically, captured advanced weaponry was utilized until it was used up and the old standbys resumed the fight. Every weapon made has its place and none should be discounted, but sometimes, simpler really is better.

[lynxpilot]

We still need to define/decide what SHTF will be. Will it be another ABTF/FBI fiasco with overwhelming resources and firepower to match whatever happens at the point of impact or will it be the socialist leech who, when all of the federal resources have been expended, is going to rob you for your prior planning and resources (a blue on blue of sorts).

Based on history, I would not count a personal residence as a reliable and secure safe haven. If there is a SHTF, I'm going to be ready to move fast with as much power as I can take with me. I don't want all of my eggs in the home basket.

Nuff said on that. Certainly we are all on the watch list now.

[Cyrano]

I don't agree with the people alleging the SKS is a clunky hunk of junk unsuited to SHTF scenarios. It has the supreme virtue of simplicity, far more so than does the AK line. It's a lot easier to maintain than the AK, I believe.The fact you have to load it with stripper clips tends to make you count your shots, and make them count.

In the case of the Yugoslavian Model 59/66 SKS, you can have the best of both worlds. Flip the gas selector switch intended to allow a rifleman to shoot rifle grenades, and you have a straight pull bolt action rifle. This also gives you better results downrange, because the bolt remains motionless when you fire, thus contributing to better accuracy. You can always flip the selector back to semi-auto operation if Bad Guys are getting close.

That said, I do think you might want to think about a magazine-fed military rifle as an addition to your SHTF inventory. I'm talking something chambered in 7.62 NATO for ease of ammo supply. They are heavier than the more common AR or AK series, but their weight is more than made up for by their reach; and if you pick the correct one, their reliability. (I have yet to meet anyone who carried the M-16 in combat who praised it, its tiny bullets or its reliability in an environment where you can't clean it every 5 seconds.)

My recommendation would be a Spanish CETME or a German G3/HK 91 rifle (pretty much the same thing in terms of operation) or their sporter variants with no bayonet lugs; or an FN-FAL; or an L1A1. You might also want to consider an M1A.

The issue magazines are 20 rounds for all these rifles. They are all semi-automatic and can't be converted to full-auto. They are all built with the understanding that in combat, they are going to get dirty but have to function anyhow. They are meant to stand up to abuse, all fire the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge, and can shoot the .308 Win cartridge as well. They can deal with any game animal in North America and are proven people-killers. The CETMEs and the G3/HK 91s are direct descendants of the wartime StG-44, essentially a refinement of that design. The M1A is the semi-auto-only version of the M-14 of the early Vietnam War period. The FN-FAL/L1A1 was called "the Free World's battle rifle" during the Cold War - something like 26 countries adopted it - and it's well proven in battle. None of these will malfunction on you when you need them. Given the scenario you've posited, any of them would be an excellent addition to your inventory.

If you have a good supply of 7.62x54R ammo for any Mosin Nagants you own, think about adding an PSL or an SVD ComBloc rifle to the inventory. This rifle was introduced (same rifle, just different names) and used by the Soviet and other Communist armies for the same purpose the M-14 has been reissued to the US Army's combat infantrymen: as a squad-level sniper rifle with more reach and power than the standard assault rifle of the infantry. I've never fired one, but people who have say they are sturdy and reliable.

Expect to spend upwards of $800 for a CETME, and perhaps as much as $2,000 for an FN-FAL; and expect prices toward the higher end of that range for any of the others. Magazines will probably cost you about $15 each, and I'd want five per rifle, minimum, plus web gear and ammo pouches for them

Any of these rifles could fill that hole you have in your defense planning, thrillbilly. It's up to you to decide if the cost is worth it.

[lynxpilot]

Oh, and the weapons of choice. I'll take one of each. I have no desire for full auto. Semi auto that is dialed in is probably a good bet. I'd love to be able to go from one shot to the next without an action or look up. It just better be a reliable weapon and those appear to be few and far between. My AR's are fun, but I don't trust the design (and they're all the same).

In all honesty, a Barrett with a really nice scope and a box of ammo would be great. Keep the BG's away from 1500 yds. If that doesn't work, go to the .308 for 1,000 yds. Next is the .223 for close in outdoors. Lastly the handgun. Oldjarhead can tell you my handgun of choice. Accurate for one shot only, but that one shot sure counts.

[SightNSqueeze]

Quote:       Originally Posted by lynxpilot

Nuff said on that. Certainly we are all on the watch list now.

I think about half of America is on the watch list for one thing or another.

[cjleete]

Nothing wrong with an SKS, Cyrano. Of course, the immobility of the bolt while in grenade launching mode is a non-issue, since the projectile has long ago (relatively) left the barrel by the time the bolt unlocks from battery in normal operation of the rifle. I'm willing to bet detractors of the M-1 who didn't want to switch from their 03's used that argument.
NEZ!!!

[cjleete]

IN a shtf scenario, I can't think of another rifle in the small arms category that requires more logistic support than a Barret 50 cal, so that would be right out the window, as far as I'm concerned.
.1 Ammunition expense and scarcity
.2 enormous weight of rifle and quantities of ammo
.3 Incredibly loud and insanely large muzzle signature upon firing,
For the price of just the rifle, the average person could completly outfit his family with high quality survival gear, ammunition, simpler firearms suited to the situation,and be able to actually carry it.

[thrillbilly]

I see there has been more traffic on this thread...
1. I am already at the BO (or within 15 miles of it anyway)
2. I never rely on one plan, my back-ups have back-ups.
3. I'm not relying on "forting up" to a unrealistic degree, We fully intend to stay at the farmhouse, but have plans and means of escaping it. Several square miles of hills and woods border my parent's place at the back...E&E are high on my priority list.
4. The OP was meant to ask a specific question for a specific scenario. I will be holed up with at least 15 people...my question was doesn't multiple BAs equal the firing capability of SAs? If the scenario changes, ie it's just me and my wife, I am quite sure two hi-cap SAs would be a absolute necessity.

[sea_chicken1]

My situation until a month ago was similar to Tacav's. We were in the norfolk/va beach area in th middle of 7 cities on the edge of a ghetto. We had the m4 and a couple of shorty shotguns and pistols with Hi cap mags because the situation of where we were located. Now we are out on whidbey Island and it's alot smaller town and alot more space to breath I am thinking a short barreled scout bolt gun would be better for my situation than my m4. I think you are good billy it sounds like your place is in a decent defensive spot and if you have plenty of ammo if shtf you will get your ebr off anyone who trespasses on your farm.