Hi, my name is Thrillbilly, and I don't own a assault rifle (EBR). I know, I know, it's horrible! My background is hunting based. My guns and training revolves around that. The only semi-auto long-guns I own are .22s. I mainly have bolt-actions. My question is, do I need one? My SHTF plan is gathering with my brothers, a cousin, and my parents at a family farm. There is a rock farmhouse with metal roof which will be hardened at first sign of trouble. There will be 7 very capable adults with weapons and 3 more adults for loading as well as 2 tweens. My middle brother does have a SKS. I honestly don't see where a carbine with a 30-round mag will be a "must-have". 20 plus "deer" rifles, 30 plus .22s, 20-25 12Gs, and around a dozen handguns seem to be adequate. BTW, I agree with our right to own EBRs, just haven't ponied up the money for one. I would prefer "removing" the "targets" at 400-500 yards, BEFORE they get any closer to my family!
BTW, my 13 year-old nephew can hit milk jugs at 200 yards with his 30.06 and the rest of us rib him about his lack of skills! LOL.
Just looking for ya'lls 2 cents about whether I should pick a couple of SKSs or something similar. I also can't spend more then about 400$ most of the time, I'm usually broke, my Mosinitis is spreading fast!
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Last edited by thrillbilly; 05-17-2009 at 05:36 AM.
My 2 cents on ammo consumption with semi-auto firearms,...
...for me, there's a tendency to use way more ammo than is needed.
If in a situation that requires ammo conservation...
...give me a bolt, lever or pump action and I'll be more accurate and use fewer bullets.
Now, in .22 caliber...
...there's something about being able to fire shots rapidly, if done accurately, that somehow increases the lethality factor.
When considering a new firearm...
...I take into consideration my family's overall needs/wants.
And the question "Would the few/several hundred dollars for another firearm be better spent elsewhere?" is asked a few times and answered honestly based on needs/wants and discretionary income.
There, my early morning 2 cents worth...
...and, it's good to read that your family is thinking ahead and becoming well organized to support/sustain each other in an emergency situation.
While a good bolt gun is great for long range sniping...it aint very effective when you have multiple targets that have snuck in close and preparing to overrun your position and you need to be shooting lots more than you are reloading...
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While a good bolt gun is great for long range sniping...it aint very effective when you have multiple targets that have snuck in close and preparing to overrun your position and you need to be shooting lots more than you are reloading...
That's why we expect to have 7 shooters with 3-5 loaders, and if they get up close, I'd take the knockdown of my 12G w/buckshot over .223 or 7.62x39 any day. I can fire my 5th shot before my first hull hits the ground with my Mossbergs, so that's "rapid-fire" IMB! As I said, one brother has a SKS and the other has a Rem Semi-auto .308, I'm just wondering if my money would be better served to go towards more ammo and/or food supplies then expensive EBRs.
I almost forgot, my oldest nephew has a 9mm Hi-point carbine as well.
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Last edited by thrillbilly; 05-17-2009 at 06:44 AM.
My SHTF gun of choice will probably be the one that I have the most ammo for, lol. I don't think that an AR or such is needed for SHTF. I do want an AR just for the sake that its tacticool
I think you are setup up VERY well for the situation you expect to be in (farm house). You will likely have to justifyably defend much further distances then most, due to being on a private farm and not a suburban house or whatever. And, as you said, on the rare occasion they might get close, you have more than enough forepower to still do quite well. If you keep slugs on hand, then even with the shotgun you thus have the range of 1 to even 100 yards effectively on human targets, provided you have decent sights on it.
And with practice, you could probably take down one target every second or two with the BA, with the act of having to work the action doing little to slow you down. I'd imagine with that practice, one could develop the ability to rack the bolt while still using the left hand to get the weapon back on / toward the next target, and still lining up the sights with your eyes. By the time you get a new round chambered, you could already be a half second away from ready for another shot.
Kindof like how, with practice, a pump action won't really be slower than an auto shotgun because by the time the muzzle is back on target a skilled shooter would have already cycled the action anyways.
And if you really need saturation fire, you still have the .22s, haha. And I do agree that rapid fire is a necessity for consistent lethality with a .22 rifle.
A semi-auto would be a good idea but it sounds as if your group pretty much has all bases covered. IF you decide to get an "assault weapon" get one that chambers ammo in the caliber you already have; that will eliminate the need for additional ammo stores.
If you are familiar with the stand-off at Ruby Ridge or the Branch Davidian assault at Waco, there was little ground action by anyone. Waco they brought in tanks and other armored vehicles; Ruby Ridge saw the use of snipers killing anything that moved...from dogs, children, and a mother holding her infant. The ones protecting themselves from Janet Reno's gestapo had no assault weapons, just hunting rifles and shotguns from reports I read.
The only response to a sniper is anti-sniper tactics. So whatever you have on hand will have to do in most cases.
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I am very lucky to have a wide assortment of different classes of firearms which serve different purposes.
But like you said, your collection or tool box is probably going to revolve around your upbringing, geographical location, financial level, and even perhaps, background, ie. job.
My little "end of the world" or lesser disaster preparedness party members (at least the men as some are married) are all US Marines and/or LEOs and 90% of our personal firearms and associated work/background training reflect that; shorter barreled shotguns, AR15s, and .308 bolt guns or special purpose built AR15s for those longer reaching shots... And we all live in urban or suburban areas for the most part. This doesnt mean we are going to go around looking to get into big gun fights though, thats just what we have.
We do have one guy who is a genuine lifelong outdoorsman/hunter who does not own any "tacticool" guns and instead owns a nice collection of hunting rifles and shotguns though.
But like i said, everyone will be different based on a lot of things and so will their requirements.
If I were you, Id review your environment where you plan on holing up at, and review the potential needs/uses for that gun, and the potential threats, human or non human in the environment you plan on being in.
Then pick one good long gun and one good pistol, squirrel away a decent amount of ammo for each with the rest of your supplies, and maybe a couple spare major components if need be, and then train, train, train, and become as proficient as you can with both.
No matter what you pick, shotgun, bolt rifle, semi auto carbine, pistol caliber carbine etc. each will have its own inherent pros, cons, and niche in the grand scheme of things. Find the one best suited to your needs.
Just because you dont have a tricked out AR15 doesnt mean thats a bad thing if a good bolt gun and a good shooter behind it will be far more suitable for what you really need.
If you have the money, a great rifle would be an M-1 Garand. You can still get them from CMP for a reasonable amount. Uses same caliber as hunting rifle, accurate, and very fast reload. You can spend 350-450 bucks on an SKS, which fires an anemic round, not nearly as accurate, and not a terribly great design to start with, or hold out and get yourself a piece of American history. Besides, like I told Sawedoffshotgun, everytime someone promotes the SKS, the Devil drowns a basket of puppies!!!
I don't know about the SKS being crappy, my brother bought his in the early 90s for 110$ and we've put hundreds of rounds through it for 15 years with no problems whatsoever.
TACAV, my family and I already have numerous firearms as noted above. We've all been shootin' and huntin' since we could hold both ends of a rifle off the ground. My father-in-law is a 30 year veteran ER surgeon, and my sister-in-law, mother-in-law, and Mom are RNs. My father is retired Army, 101st Airborne, Vietnam schooled. I feel we would be as well-prepared as possible. The terrain is open to about a 300 yard cleared fire-zone. I just sincerely pray we never have to find out!
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Since you like pumps 'billy, why not check out the Remington 223 pump rifle. It takes AR-15 mags and is gaining favor with many police agencies on tight budgets. With that gun, you get firepower, ammo availablity, and extended range if needed.
Sounds to me like you have your bases pretty well covered. Semi-autos are necessary in an attempted overrun of your position but between the semis already there and the shotguns your party should be able to handle it. Those y'all have picked off with your bolt actions from 500 yds. on in will have thinned the ranks of those trying to overrun your position. Personally, I would use the money for other supplies or equipment you might need instead of an AK.
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Since you like pumps 'billy, why not check out the Remington 223 pump rifle. It takes AR-15 mags and is gaining favor with many police agencies on tight budgets. With that gun, you get firepower, ammo availablity, and extended range if needed.
I would love a good pump rifle! I'll pick me up one someday, soon hopefully. My cousin has a Rem 30.06 pump that is sweeeeet!
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[QUOTE=JMcDonald;892706]
And with practice, you could probably take down one target every second or two with the BA, with the act of having to work the action doing little to slow you down. I'd imagine with that practice, one could develop the ability to rack the bolt while still using the left hand to get the weapon back on / toward the next target, and still lining up the sights with your eyes. By the time you get a new round chambered, you could already be a half second away from ready for another shot. A few years back, when ammo was cheap and plentiful, I could place skeet clay targets at 90 yards and shooting my Rem700 .270 with scope, could break at least 4 out of 5 and half the time 5 out of 5 in under about 10 seconds, standing up offhand with sling. I haven't shot centerfires as much as I'd like the last year or so, but I'm not too rusty. (90 yards was as far as we could shoot in the quarry we were using then)
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thrill.........no need to worry!!! 7 rednecks with bolt actions beats 4 mexicans and 3 russians with ak's anyday. and yeah my bo plan is a lot like yours.....the 22 is prolly goin to turn out being your best weapon.............period.
thrill.........no need to worry!!! 7 rednecks with bolt actions beats 4 mexicans and 3 russians with ak's anyday. and yeah my bo plan is a lot like yours.....the 22 is prolly goin to turn out being your best weapon.............period.
Especially if those seven rednecks shoot as well as the ones around here...
...my brothers and me included.
And, several rounds from a .22 caliber spot on is not going to be pretty...
I think your home base is pretty secure; I wouldn't waste money on more weapons instead of ammo for the ones you have. Or for other necessities....
It's hard to imagine a SHTF scenario in the near future where an armed group would be so intent on taking your farm that they would be willing to suffer major casualties doing so.
I think your home base is pretty secure; I wouldn't waste money on more weapons instead of ammo for the ones you have. Or for other necessities....
It's hard to imagine a SHTF scenario in the near future where an armed group would be so intent on taking your farm that they would be willing to suffer major casualties doing so.
That's what I'm going for, make it so unappealing they decide to go down the road without engaging. The best fight is the one ya don't have!
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