[Big Dog]

Plenty of other 'pets' running around to bring to the barby before chowing down on your own......

[thrillbilly]

A well-trained dog would be a help. Most dogs would just give your position away or be a nuisance. I'll rely on my own senses, remember humans are the deadliest creature on the planet. Military and police spend crazy ammounts of money and lots of time training their dogs, and even then some "wash-out" and are useless. I like dogs just fine BTW, just never been sentimental about animals. They are here to serve a purpose, if they don't serve a purpose they are useless. Being a pet is a purpose now, but after TEOTWAWKI it won't be. The reason Native Americans kept lots of dogs in camp wasn't for companionship or guard duty, it was for fresh meat in the winter. After a couple months of pemmican, jerky, and salted fish, fresh red meat was a delicacy.

[Metronome]

Quote:       Originally Posted by thrillbilly

^The dog is walking protein. Eat him, then eat his remaining dog food. If this sounds harsh and unbelievable, then ya'll aint in the right mindset to survive. In the end, the ones who will do what others won't will be the ones who survive.

Clearly you don't hang around with Filipinos; it's not survival, it's just a barbeque night!

If you want to know some tips to survive, find a local family of Hmong. My friends neighbors have HUGE barbeques every weekend, and along with their very successful garden, they often have squirrels, rabbits, trout, snails - you name it! They certainly know how to live off the land, and they live smack in the middle of town =) He jokes about pets on the menu, but with the number of semi-feral cats and dogs, I would see no reason not to include them.

I'm in the same position, suburban apartment dweller. On the quiet side of town, and the only real places I could make a mad dash to are anywhere from a few hours on foot, to an hour by vehicle. I have more supplies at home than I could fit in my car, so at least for me - I would bug in as long as it doesn't get violent, I run out of food, or my place starts to burn down =)

[JMcDonald]

However, I wouldnt hesitate to euthanize my dog if we were both starving. Not only would I spare him the pain of starvation / dehydration, but I'd save myself, something I'm sure he'd want.

I did some more thinking, too. I think in most any sort of natural disaster (for this area, tornados, power outages, etc), I'd stay put. In every one in the past, especially in this area, most everyone just worked to rebuild and there were no problems. I have plenty of food and water to outlast most anythng like that, so there wouldnt really be anything to leave for.

However, for most SHTF events caused by man or are otherwise "unnatural", I'd probably bug out. These include mostly things like EMP attacks, rioting or panicking (president assasinated, major terrorist attacks around nation, economic collapse, etc) and, of course, zombies (of any variation). I think that while it wouldnt be too difficult to stay holed up in our apartment for a few weeks at a time, the problem is the kind of people that would slowly become more and more common during that time:

Type 1: Military. If there is military around and the situation is still grim, they are likely going to disarm everyone they see and throw them into some camp. Not good. They might even be actively searching buildings for survivors, which would make my apartment a likely target.

Type 2: Bandits / Gangs / Looters. Obviously, if the situation stays bad enough for long, people will start taking matters into their own hands for survival. Even at best, it is still likely we run into them when bugging out, or even just run into frustrated survivors that think WE are bandits! And, at worst, they find us during a raid, and then we have a seige on our hands! This also applies to the "zombies" in that we would likely find ourselves surrounded.

Not to mention that rioting in a city will likely result in fires. And while I do think our building is pretty fire-resistant, I don't necessarily want to test that out, heh. Getting out before people start shooting first and asking questions later, and before "roundups" start occurring, will likely be the safest in the long run, even if we have to go on foot. The risk of getting mugged (etc.) during the early stages is still there, but I don't think it is really that great for us.

So its basically like, bugging out early poses a high risk during the bug-out, but gives a low risk after the destination is reached. Trying to stay put for a while gives us a low risk level that slowly increases until the time we run out of supplies, but once that happens our risks increase dramatically. I suppose, in a nutshell, the decision to take the risk early or take the risk later will have to depend on the situation (likely following the above).

[tommy]

the question shouldn't be bug out but it should be to live or move to a place where you can feel safe right now. if you can't look around you and think your gonna be able to stay in a major event then you need to leave now after the event happens it's to late to leave.i live in the country and it's still pretty much country but i figure in about 15 years the city will have moved closer so i will be lookin for a place further away from the city but for now and the next 15 years the location is good. but i plan to make a move before anything happens i don't plan on buggin out to anyplace.

[knightRider]

i would never eat my companions . <dogs>
SORRY they are part of my family.
NEVER .

[TexasT]

Quote:       Originally Posted by knightRider

i would never eat my companions . <dogs> SORRY they are part of my family. NEVER .

Your itty bitty doggie is too small to eat anyway.

[knightRider]

yeah that is true but still the thought pisses me off.

[JMcDonald]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tommy

the question shouldn't be bug out but it should be to live or move to a place where you can feel safe right now. if you can't look around you and think your gonna be able to stay in a major event then you need to leave now after the event happens it's to late to leave.i live in the country and it's still pretty much country but i figure in about 15 years the city will have moved closer so i will be lookin for a place further away from the city but for now and the next 15 years the location is good. but i plan to make a move before anything happens i don't plan on buggin out to anyplace.

Yes, you are right about all that. But, at this point in my life it would not really be a good idea for me to buy even a lower-end house, let alone a house out in the boonies on some land. But, you have no idea how much I do want to do that, heh.



knightRider, +1. I would probably eat my dogs at around the same time I'd eat a strange child.

[knightRider]

yes people that seriously could eat a companion are dumb as hell .

and MEN DO HAVE TO FIGHT FOR RIGHTS

[scroamer65]

The point has been made that if one waits till SHTF to Bug Out the
highways will be jammed and impossible to travel for days or weeks,
etc. The only way to BO would be to have at leaset 3 days notice
before any one else. NO such luck.

[JMcDonald]

Hmm that's probably so.

I guess Ill just have to plan to wait it out at home, and then do my best to sneak out after some time has passed.

[thrillbilly]

LOL. I knew I'd upset some of ya'll with the doggie chow stuff. I could post some recipes if ya'll are interested, I have some cat recipes also.

[larmus]

its a catch 22 situation if you bug out early everyone and their brothers uncle will be out on the road hence traffic jams and millions walkin... but if you wait till they are all gone and things have cleared then it may be to late to bug out and you could be trapped were you are... so... in JM's situation i would wait for the initial migration of people then bug out by cover of darkness and only move by night, hold up in abandon structures or rock and tree cover during the day untill i got to my B-O-L... just my opinion anyway...

[JMcDonald]

From our place to my mom's house its about 5.5 miles by road. I'd imagine we could cover that in no more than a few hours on foot. Their house is on the edge of town in neighborhoods, so hopefully it would be peaceful enough for us to stop for a little bit. It is also on the way to my grandparents' so it wouldnt be out of the way for heading that direction.

[Sam Ruger]

Quote:       Originally Posted by JMcDonald

However, for most SHTF events caused by man or are otherwise "unnatural", I'd probably bug out. These include mostly things like EMP attacks, rioting or panicking (president assasinated, major terrorist attacks around nation, economic collapse, etc) and, of course, zombies (of any variation). I think that while it wouldnt be too difficult to stay holed up in our apartment for a few weeks at a time, the problem is the kind of people that would slowly become more and more common during that time: Type 1: Military. If there is military around and the situation is still grim, they are likely going to disarm everyone they see and throw them into some camp. Not good. They might even be actively searching buildings for survivors, which would make my apartment a likely target. Type 2: Bandits / Gangs / Looters. Obviously, if the situation stays bad enough for long, people will start taking matters into their own hands for survival. Even at best, it is still likely we run into them when bugging out, or even just run into frustrated survivors that think WE are bandits! And, at worst, they find us during a raid, and then we have a seige on our hands! This also applies to the "zombies" in that we would likely find ourselves surrounded. Not to mention that rioting in a city will likely result in fires. And while I do think our building is pretty fire-resistant, I don't necessarily want to test that out, heh. Getting out before people start shooting first and asking questions later, and before "roundups" start occurring, will likely be the safest in the long run, even if we have to go on foot. The risk of getting mugged (etc.) during the early stages is still there, but I don't think it is really that great for us. So its basically like, bugging out early poses a high risk during the bug-out, but gives a low risk after the destination is reached. Trying to stay put for a while gives us a low risk level that slowly increases until the time we run out of supplies, but once that happens our risks increase dramatically. I suppose, in a nutshell, the decision to take the risk early or take the risk later will have to depend on the situation (likely following the above).

Bottom line:

You can always Bug Out and come back later. But if you sit, you can't choose to bug out later. You become part of the mob, whether you like it or not.

[JMcDonald]

I think the problem is the risks involved in bugging out with everyone else, as opposed to waiting. Those risks must be weighed against the risks of bugging out only after a few weeks. Though I am starting to think that the physical threats during that stage would be lesser, as if everyone is fleeing the city then most likely we all have pretty much one common enemy. Thus, I think people attacking eachother for their goods (especially a couple carrying "black" weapons, haha) will be minimal, and military aggression will be minimal as well (they would still be in the "help anyone that needs it" stage instead of "grab everyone and throw them in the truck" stage).

So perhaps other than not having as much food and water on my back (unless somehow I'm lucky enough to be able to have my vehicle), the risks are relatively low.

[Metronome]

Quote:       Originally Posted by knightRider

i would never eat my companions . <dogs> SORRY they are part of my family. NEVER .

I am on your side, even though my cat would make about 10 lbs of meat (he's a big cat) I would sooner eat one of my neighbors - which I believe would be the most effective way to deal with threats.

And yes, I even have backup food for my cat, a 10 lb bag lasts a long time. I really think there is something to say about a high protein shelf stable food available in bulk packaging... anyone willing to do a comparison of popular pet foods as an MRE alternative?

[Big Dog]

Seriously, it would have to get BAD before I'd eat a fido steak - but I have mentally measured that annoying little JRT across the road for a tinfoil suit and a place on my grill......

I hunker down unless it's so bad my house is gonna be turned into confetti.
My parent's concrete block home is ten miles away.

[jkrzos]

Howdy,

I have atleast 5 ways out of town. Forget the main highways, they'll be parking lots and they don't enough Police or Military to cover all the back roads leading out of Cook County. I plan on leaving ASAP. I'll head south with my P/U full of stuff. Like most people, we have too much stuff, gear, ammo, clothes, water, food, etc. Travelling at night is probably the best, at first to clear the city. In the country, the authorities(military manevours) are on the footing as us. You can spot movement from a distance, so evasion would be easy. Good camo and you can disappear a few feet off any road. There are groups of men who are in the same boat, who just want to survive. Buddy up and make some provisions, for operations in your AO. 2-5 men equally trained and equipped can sustain any mounted fight, outside of a lasting fire fight, with air support.

What you have to figure out is, who's going to be the foe? DHS or Military? Foreign or Domestic. UN or NATO. Right now, I don't see our Military joining the bad guys. I believe it will be DHS Contractors or Foreign Military, backed up by Gang members from the big cities. If that is the case, they'll have a fight on their hands, with me and my guys. Call me crazy, but what are talking about. Fighting for our lives, liberties and country-just like the oath all took when we were in the Military. I will survive and take out as many as I can. I will not go peacefully.

Jkrzos

My 1911 beats a 911 call!