I am a college student, living in a suburban apartment (well, my city has 100k people in it, but it is a suburb of Oklahoma City). It is probably one of the cheapest and thus lowest-income apartments in town (mostly because I'm cheap). Still, my neighbors are all nice, and pretty much keep to themselves. overall, while the area is not the classiest around, it still isn't bad. I guess to put it in perspective, last year Money Magazine rated it the 6th best place to live in the U.S. with a population of 50-300k.
I had originally planned to bug out in the earliest stages of any bad event (anything from ice storms to zombies), for many reasons. First, I don't have many valuable items (like a house) to stay and protect that couldn't easily be brought along. Second, I'm sure I'd be much safer in the relatively secluded home of my grandparents than in my low-income apartment building. Being in a lower-income apartment, in a relatively low-income area, also means I might be more likely to encounter less-prepared people then myself, which can cause potential trouble. Finally, that I am in the middle of a medium-sized city means if I did decide to bug out after some time had passed, it might be difficult or even possible (by vehicle) due to blocked roads, traffic, etc.
However, I have thought about it some and have almost completely decided to stay put, for the following reasons.
1) The entire building is made of cinder blocks. Only the interior walls separating each bedroom and living room is made of wood, but the walls separating each unit are filled cinder block. Additionally, both the 2nd floor and the roof are concrete as well.
1a) So, while I wouldn't say it is fire proof, I'd imagine it would be quite resistant to minor conflagrations (especially from the outside), especially compared to most buildings, and especially to common homes with their wooden roofs. Splashing a Molotov on the sidewalk or lawn will not likely bring down the building. Still, even if a fire does start inside and is big enough to not go out on its own, I'd imagine it would take quite a while for it to consume the whole building, giving ample time to escape.
1b) The solid structure makes for very good insulation. During the coldest parts of this winter, we would still only turn on the heater maybe 15 minutes a day to keep it comfortable (high 60s, low 70s). In the summer, it would probably get pretty hot without AC, but I have a high tolerance for temperature variations anyways, and I still don't think it would get much hotter than most other places designed around Air Conditioning.
1c) With us being on the second floor, all but the most desperate attempts at entry would have to come through the solid wooden door (which can be easily barricaded). Further, there are only three entrances to the second floor, all of which are several units away from mine (mine is the furthest from all the entrances, toward the center of the building). Either using furniture from abandoned rooms, or cooperating with tenants in rooms closed to the door, we could easily barricade those three doors with heavy furniture (all the doors open to the inside), perhaps even using my tools to further secure them.
We do have two windows in our second floor unit (one in the living room and one in the bedroom), but between some furniture we could stack up in front of it, and our guns, I think we could be fine even during desperate looting or invasion attempts. Our building is shaped like a "U", with two parallel rows of apartments, over two floors, going around the whole shape. Our unit is on the inside of the "U", on one of the "legs," if that gives you guys any idea what I'm dealing with. The building itself is two lots off the main road, surrounded by a fence on three sides except the parking lot exit. While aesthetically it isn't very pleasing, that all we see 20' outside our window is the opposing wall of the other side of the building means people on the outside could not easily spot us or even notice our presence without actually coming into the "courtyard" area. Further, this "courtyard" area might allow a means of a more hidden escape should the building become compromised. True, a threat could easily be hiding in there, but once its cleared we could escape through the windows without too much risk of being shot in the back as we climb down.
2) While, of course, I'd be much better off if the BOL is reached, there is a lot that can go wrong during the BO process. Wrecks and such could grind traffic to a halt. While my vehicle is capable of easily navigating curbs, tall grasses, relatively steep inclines, etc, if people are desperate enough, cars getting stuck in ditches, in lawns, and on sidewalks from trying to get around the traffic could completely stop any travel other than by foot or maybe bicycle. If my vehicle is compromised during the escape, the chances of survival, I think, go down quite a bit, as my BOL is about 35 miles away.
However, I do wonder if, in a case bad enough where there is THAT much unregulated traffic and people are THAT desperate, it might be almost a given that I'd be bugging out too (massive chemical disaster, zombie swarm, huge fires, nuclear attack in OKC because of Tinker AFB, etc)?
3) Finally, by gearing up to bug out early, could I be overreacting? I mean, I'd hate to skip town and have the crisis (snow storm, riots, etc) end the next day. Or have it end even two or three days later, and find out there was actually no real risk to me, my building, or even my area.
4) At the beginnings of an event, prepping my apartment for a bad situation would be MUCH easier than transporting even half our useful stuff (food, water, guns, ammo, reloading equipment, batteries and electronic equipment, and even clothes and blankets and toilet paper such). It could simply be a matter of cleaning / filling / refilling all water containers, perhaps making a trip to a local store, and monitoring the radio and outside conditions. While being around more people is typically a bad thing, its close proximity to said stores (medium-sized grocery stores and gas stations can be seen from our parking lot exit, and two Walmarts and a Harbor Freight Tools are less than 3 miles away) has its advantages. Even long after an event has started, some useful things could still easily be found there. At worst, it all just means there are lots more places to loot for supplies (though I know everyone else will be thinking that as well so care must be taken).
The reason it matters is that the type of equipment used can vary. For example, for someone planning to bug out, stealth and inconspicuousness are important, if not deciding factors (between peace and getting hassled by desperate civilians or police / military). However, for someone planning on staying put, those are not quite as necessary, and more efficient equipment could be used. Basically, by the time the situation is bad enough to force one away from a firm home, trying to look like regular old "Joe Civilian" is probably not a major priority compared to getting away from the aliens or radioactive dust or whatever. Thus, a tactical vest could replace a mere waist pack and pants pockets, giving quicker access to potentially more equipment. For those with shotguns or other tube-fed weapons, a shell belt or bandoleer could replace pockets and pouches, allowing faster reloads as all the shells would sit in the same orientation. This equipment might be used for defending your home from attackers or looters, or even for near-by rescue or supply operations. If the situation is stable enough that it matters (but still unstable enough to justify bringing it along), this equipment could still be easily covered up by a coat or poncho to avoid scaring the occasional contact.
Additionally, of course, more ammo, food, and especially water could be kept on hand in the home, as well as all the little useful goodies like flashlights, kitchen knives, clothes, etc, as opposed to only being able to bring what was stuffed into the BOV.
Now, I would still definitely keep the option of bugging out, as I'd still probably keep at least some of the food and water in packs for mobility as I do now. Basically most things would stay the same except some additional / option equipment and supplies that would really only make sense if I planned on staying put.
I think you've got some sound logic there McD. For natural disasters I have no reason to leave, and for man-made, unless it was biological warfare, radiation, or something of the sort that there would be no surviving, I will stay right where I am.
The one thing that I would do, would be to get to know my neighbors. If you live in an apartment complex and have a rotation of folks coming and going, that may be hard, but I think it would be well worth it to know if you have someone next door that you can trust to watch your back. I feel much more comfortable knowing my two next door neighbors, and want to get to know more folks in the area. And also to know, for example in an extended power outage, if there are old folks in your neighborhood, that you should check to make sure they have heat. I know that sort of thing may not be in many peoples emergency preparedness plan, but I think not only is it the right thing to do, but in an extended bug-in situation, it would be to your benefit also.
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You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.--Gospel of John 8:32 NRA Member
Yeah I'd like to really get to know more of my neighbors, or at least get better acquainted with the ones I already do know. But everyone pretty much keeps to themselves, with mostly everything limited to casual conversations in passing or when I'm out walking my dog.
Staying put is just about everyone's best option. Seriously, how would I transport several months of food, shelter, valuables, firearms, ammunition, clothing, fuel, generators, etc. quickly. Unless forced out, I'm staying put. Honestly, though I could come pretty close to taking most of what I'd need in the vehicles I own. But it makes no sense to leave. I do need to buy a reasonably good tent (just in case). Tarps aren't my thing unless I just have to. I do own five or six, some quite large. Don't camp much so the tent would stay brand new.
The most "viable" method is to plan on bugging in, but try to buy a couple of acres, or get with friends/relatives in the country and establish a cache of bulky items. A few sealed, buried 50 gallon drums of gear/food would be good for peace of mind. As time/money allows ya could even put up a pole barn style garage/shop building to stay in. That way if ya had to bug out, ya had a place to go with supplies already in place so you can travel light and fast.
p.s. I don't really recommend it, but it's possible to create a cache in public lands, just conceal it well and don't forget where it is.
__________________ I'm here for a good time, to h*ll with the red wine, pour me some moonshine!
I’ll disagree just for the sake of argument (Not that I actually have a clue). To me, a SHTF situation is generally population centered. Historically speaking, famine and disease are the major population reducers. And, of these, major population centers are the hardest hit. When local populations grow, so too does the rate of local food and fuel consumption as well as the rate of the spreading of disease. Thus, in the case of a city dweller, if the trucks stop coming in, the grocery shelves go bare and the gas stations go dry in a week, and the transmission of contagion maximizes. Even a “safe” building isn’t safe if something gets in the tap water or, if your neighbors get infected you may find something as simple as pressing the elevator button or riding a public bus will infect you too. In all these cases, if you’re still in Metropolis one week after the SHTF, odds are you not only haven’t escaped the problem but are experiencing the problem. And the actual SHTF situation may not be as deadly or dangerous as the public PANIC that accompanies it. It may not be the crisis itself that destroys you or your property as much as the panic in response to the crisis as the mob in the street riots. And, as population density increases, so does the contagion of panic. My point being that I haven’t heard of anyone yet dying from too much space. Living inside a major population center is not my idea of the first line of defense. Getting out is. On the plus side, the situations I describe have not occurred in recent history. Cities of today are safer than cities of the past. In my opinion, none of us will ever actually experience a situation requiring “bug out”. And, unfortunately, if it does happen we’re all in trouble – Even those of us here who think they’re prepared. Just ask yourself how long, and how far, you can “bug out” without gasoline?
I bugged out so I could Bug In !
I bought remote Alaska Property so I could have a good defendable place to try and survive what may come someday...I hope nothing does , but I feel it is better to be ready than not , and I like it here !
I am limited to only 4 escape routes But that is last resort Only.
Besides , I have too much ammo to try and Move Now ! LOL
Honestly , a city is the last place anyone would want to try and survive with the hoodlums and gangs that will be coming out of the woodwork if society breaks down and Law enforcement is Innefective...Look at New Orleans !
You might survive by eating dogs and cats , but you will probably have to fight for those too...
Rich
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
My grandparents are MORE than prepared for most cases. They had no power for two weeks and still lived pretty much like normal, except he didn't go to work (he works part time as an Engineering consultant). They have two >3000ft buildings on their property (one their house, one a workshop with living quarters). They have a manually-operated well, they have the privacy (house inset off the road, surrounded by acres of thick trees), they have the supplies, they have the neighbors (which are all family, too), and they have the guns.
Really, it would be about the safest possible place I could go to which I'd be welcome.
But it looks like now I have some good arguments for both bugging in and bugging out!
if your in a city and tshtf it's really way to late for you to even cosider bugin out.the roads will be packed with thousands of others bugin out . you only have to look atus down here for a huricane evacuation they give us a few days notice and we start leaving and the interstates are still a parking lot and they stay that way for hours if not a day or so . now consider if something happened where everyone just picked up and took off at a moments notice??? because during a huricane evacuation they do it in sections and not eveyne hits the road at one time. i would say that if you live in a city try to live close to a mini storage of get a apartment that has one more romm than you need and use it for a mini storage to store your stuff . if after the shtf things don't start getting better then i would start to look for a way out after you start running low on supplies but only then. and if you can make it a few weeks without leaving then you will have a better chance of making it out because all the rest of the people will have done died or run out of gas and walked out and died but iether way stay put till the dust settles then leave. and like i said watch the south when it comes to buggin out it just doesn't work like you think it does eeven if you have a motor bike because there isn't any gas for the bike. so stockup and stay put. like dorathy says "there's no place like home"
Hmm, good points! They really make sense. I think you are right about bugging out early not really being a viable option.
So, it would be better to actively plan to bug in, at least for a few weeks at a time, while still keeping the option open (extra gas, pre-packed supplies) to bug out easily?
BTW, by "actively plan" I mean equip myself for it. More food, more water storage (one of those WaterBobs most likely), the aforementioned better personal accessories (vests, shell belts), and perhaps more equipment that could be used to fortify the building (nails, some wood kept under the bed, etc). This, as opposed to only keeping what I think I could easily carry in my BOV (perhaps a couple weeks of canned food in a duffle, maybe several gallons of water, etc).
My plan is to bug in but I have no concerns about not having gasoline should I need to bug out as I have 3 teams of Belgian Draft Horses and 5 wagons. I can travel as needed horse back or by wagon. The biggest threat that I see will be natural disaster. Over the last 6 years we have had 3 deadly tornados and 2 large ice storms and most presently what the national weather service called an inland hurricane. No warning just 80 mph straight line winds hail and 4 inches of horizontal rain.
i will stay till i cant then i head north to some land my friend has up in the mountains we are all planning on going up this summer to check it out and see how "viable" it is...
__________________ 12-21-2012: Party like theres no tomorrow!!!
"... and like i said watch the south when it comes to buggin out it just doesn't work like you think it does eeven if you have a motor bike because there isn't any gas for the bike."
I'll be carrying a long hose and hand pump - there WILL be gas in the station's tanks down deep - even if the station 'ran out'. Got the setup already.
Trick is to get to it without being seen by bandits.
Ok, so I thought of another factor: my Dog. He brings two potential problems as far a bugging in to an apartment goes:
1) He will obviously bark at threatening noises. We live in an apartment so he is pretty used to it (he might only bark every few days), but for example in a silent night if he were to hear sudden crashes or whatever outside, he would likely bark, causing the potential threats to further investigate. I do understand these warnings to also be great while sleeping or otherwise relaxing, so I am not upset about them, but with everything good has a bad side.
2) This is probably the more important one: He will need to pee and poo outside. If it was so bad we couldnt go outside, he would probably just whine and whine until he finally went somewhere in the apartment, which would take him a while to get used to (and he will probably try to hide it at first, in the bedroom and such, as opposed to just on the kitchen tile like we trained him to do as a puppy).
So, based largely on #2, I think I might make an adjustment to the plan. Basically, stay at the apartment until it is too dangerous to take him outside to use the bathroom, as opposed to for an expected fixed time frame of "several weeks." So like, if the situation deteriorates over a matter of a few days, so much that rioters / looters / bandits are becoming a problem (I still wouldnt go out unarmed, but still), I guess I'd have to try to decide if the risk of bugging out (especially if on foot) outweighs the risk of trying to stay in the apartment, ya know?
I guess this also applies to us, though. If the water runs out, we wouldnt have a working toilet either, so we would likely have to bug out, at least to a location with a back yard.
^The dog is walking protein. Eat him, then eat his remaining dog food. If this sounds harsh and unbelievable, then ya'll aint in the right mindset to survive. In the end, the ones who will do what others won't will be the ones who survive.
__________________ I'm here for a good time, to h*ll with the red wine, pour me some moonshine!
^The dog is walking protein. Eat him, then eat his remaining dog food. If this sounds harsh and unbelievable, then ya'll aint in the right mindset to survive. In the end, the ones who will do what others won't will be the ones who survive.
I've heard that a lot, but I'd be well on my way to starving before I did that. Still, though, his assets - accute hearing and smell - would be well worth keeping him around.
yep i got 5 chihuahuas and one black lab and killing and eating them would be the last thing on my mind . i would share my last meal with them with their hearing and thier senses they alert me to anyone coming long before they even get close to me plus they can smell game before i can even see it. they are much beter alive than dead. kill a dog and eat for a day keep him alive and eat for years!!!
I'd bug out depending on the situation. As we are earthquake prone in the PRK, I would bug in. Why? I go by "Love thy neighbor " as commanded by my Lord. I'll stay around and help them as I know all my neighbors very well.
During anything other than natural disaster, or something that is short term I'll bug out early. You'll only have to worry about others for a short period of time as most will either give up due to lack of training, poor mindset etc., die, be captured or seek some sort of medical attention. Anyone else who is left will be trained and experienced. Those won't be many. There will be plenty of game and forage. Those who are experienced in outdoorsmanship will use resources wisely and survive or even thrive.
