[gee_orge]

I would pick a .22cal revolver...due to the fact that all pistols are ammo sensitive and have a tendency to jam, not feed, not fire or stove pipe with .22's of undetermined condition....ie: stored for a long time. Also, you could hunt small game with a .22 rifle (bolt, lever, or pump) and use the same ammo for both guns.

[mitchshrader]

I've got a Ruger MkIII that I like enough to keep. The 'Hunter' version, 7.5" stainless with the flat barrel sides. The gun shoots good enough it makes up for a lot.

[Deersniper]

Howdy there jfrey fellow Texan and red fish hunter, I do agree the Buck Mark Micro is my choice. I love four inch guns. The Micro.

[Draken]

If you are talking about in a survival situation, then you are going to want the Ruger in stainless. You are talking about survival, so you know its going to be less the ideal anyway, with a stainless firearm you have one less thing to worry about.

[ke4sky]

While current fashion seems favor one or another variation of Ruger semi-auto pistol, I've had my share of frustration which these. Out of the box, hand-held from sandbags, Rugers average 1-1/2" ten-shot groups at 25 yards with standard velocity ammo of average quality. High speed ammo is closer to two inches. Firing off a Ransom rest improves this, but such results have little bearing on realistic expectations of field utility, because aiming and holding errors increase the "system error budget" more than inherent accuracy (or lack of it) attributable to the gun and ammunition.

I've tested many Ruger .22 auto pistols off the Ransom Rest when I worked for the company. Their performance is generally quite good for a gun in its price range, i.e. two inches at 50 yards from machine rest for a series of ten-shot groups with good lots of high velocity ammo and 1.6" or less with "match grade" ammo (which costs about $100 a brick) the simple fact is that in field shooting it's hard to carry the Ransom rest along and get Mr. Wabbit to wait while you set it up.

The Ruger trigger as it comes from the factory has issues. Inconsistency of trigger pull causes fliers. Getting a match quality trigger pull with minimal creep, no hiccups and a clean break requires a trip to a gunsmith, and replacement of the factory parts with custom, after-market items. If you replace any of springs with after-market sets you may induce functioning problems if you use anything other than high velocity ammo. But HV loads fail in the accuracy department and defeat the whole purpose of a small game gun capable of 50 yard head shots on camp meat.

Fixed sights are more rugged and durable a field or “survival” gun subjected to rough use. You must to spend enough range time to confirm which ammo is most reliable and accurate in your gun, then get a multi-year supply of that and zero the gun. Testing outdoors is best, because lighting on indoor ranges is different and affects your zero. Fixed sights should be zeroed to strike about 1 inch above point of aim at 25 yards. The Ruger adjustable sights don't stay zeroed unless you flood them with LocTite after zeroing.

Some users prefer scopes or red-dot sights. By the time you put quality, reliable optics on one of these you increase system cost several hundred dollars and the resulting "full race dragon" pistol tips the scales at about 50 ozs.! An old Remington Nylon 66, Marlin Papoose or Chipmunk youth rifle doesn't weigh very much more and is easier for the average person to use than a pistol to shoot camp meat.

The barrels and chambers on current Ruger Mk.III pistols are better than on guns I tested back in the 1980s. Polymer frame pistols are much lighter than steel, while providing a full sized gun to hold onto, but trigger and sight problems still exist. By the time you buy a new Mk. III, do a professional trigger job and put good optics on it, you've invested more than you would to find and obtain a very good “shooter-grade” Colt Woodsman or fine pre-war High Standard. The "full race Ruger" is much more bulky and less handy than "Target and Trapper" pistols of the 1930s and 40s, designed for the very backpack survival situations we talk about.

If you like single-actions the Ruger Single-Six is a sleeper. I find mine far more useful than the Bearcat it replaced. The Bearcat's fixed sights seem to always shoot low and right for me. For field work the Single Six needs better sights. I put Bowen Rough Country ones on mine. I prefer the Single Six in .32 HRM caliber as a trail gun because that option gives you reloading options, flatter trajectory which makes reliable game hits to 100 yards possible, useful field energy approximating the .32-20 Winchester, all in a trim field gun, with better accuracy than all but the best .22s.

I recently put a 1942 Colt Sport 4-1/2" barrel Woodsman through its paces. I tested it hand-held on sandbags, indoors at 25 yards using the original iron sights. I fired five consecutive ten-shot groups with several ammos, then compared results against similar samples fired with some borrowed .22 revolvers and auto pistols deemed by their owners "good shooters."

Auto pistol accuracy figures below represent averages of five consecutive 10-shot groups at 25 yards. Both Ruger pistols were fired using a 4X Leupold pistol scope to do a better job of testing the pistols, rather than my ability see the sights! The High Standard Victor is a proven match gun used by a Master competitive shooter, intended as a benchmark. I shot it as well hand-held at 25 yards off handbags with my 59 year-old eyes as the gun will do at 50 yards with the same ammo off the Ransom rest. So, that is the measure of truth and reality!

The High Standard Model B is 1942 production with 6-3/4" barrel which was a retired bush pilot's actual Alaska survival gun. I shot old ammo from the survival seat pack that used to ride in his DeHavilland Beaver float plane and some new stuff.

The Beretta 71 is the ca. 1968 "Jaguar" model which used to be imported into the US. This is the lightest 6" barrel .22 autoloader I have ever seen, weighing only 20 oz. These came in 2-barrel sets with 3.5" and 6" barrels. They are difficult to shoot accurately, but are quality guns if you can find one.

*Two High Standard Sentinel revolvers tested are both fixed sight 9-shooters found I at pawn shops for around $150. These are serviceable if found in good mechanical condition which time and index well, without noticeable cylinder end play. I fired one 9-shot cylinder load in each per group.

**The Colt Officer's Model Match was made in 1959 and is a target grade revolver, a 6-shooter. In it I fired TWO cylinder loads, totaling 12 shots per group.

The Walther P.22 was a current model which illustrates my disappointment with current offerings of compact .22 pistols. It is barely accurate enough for combat training on silhouette targets. As a kid I could shoot my Whamo slingshot more precisely than this!

Gun Bbl.Length Sights
Ammo Avg. ES(Ins.) 5x10@25yds*

1942 Colt Woodsman 4-1/2" irons
CCI Std. (USA) 1.5"
CCI Blazer (USA) 2.0"
Eley Std (UK) 1.25"

1942 High Standard Model B, 6/3/4" irons
"Sterile Package Brown Box" FMJ Ball M24 2.0"
Canuck (1965) HP 2.2"
CCI Blazer (USA) 1.85"
Eley Standard (UK) 1.5"

HS Victor 5-1/2" irons
Eley Std. (UK) 1.0"
Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.3"

HS Sentinel R107 revolver 4" irons
CCI Std. (USA) 2.6"*
Eley Std. (UK) 2.3"*
Eley Sport (Mexico) 2.3"*
CCI Blaser (USA) 2.3"*
Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.7*

HS Sentinel R103 revolver 6" irons
Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"*
CCI Blaser (USA) 2.2"*
Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.5"*

Ruger MkI 6-7/8" 4X Leupold
CCI Std. (USA) 1.5"
CCI Blazer (USA) 2"
Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.1"

Ruger Mk.III 5-1/2" 4X Leupold
Eley Std. (UK) 1.25"
Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.25"

Walther P22 3.5" irons
CCI Std. (USA) 4"
CCI Blazer (USA) 5"+

Beretta Mod. 71, 6" irons
CCI Subsonic HP (USA) 1.5"
CCI Blazer (USA) 2"
Eley Std. (UK) 2"

Colt OM revolver 6" irons
Eley Std. (UK) 2" **
Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"**
CCI Blaser (USA) 2"**

I've seen nothing in new .22 handguns to make me replace my old Colts or High Standards. If you search Cabellas Gun Library still can find a “shooter grade” Colt Woodsman, Huntsman or Challenger for around $700. A High Standard Model A, B, GB, D, H-B, or H-D in similar VG to Exc. condition will sell for $150 less than a Colt. The High Standard Model B uses the same magazines as the pre-war Colt Woodsman, and is similarly trim, light and accurate. High Standards in serviceable condition are well worth looking for to have shipped to your FFL dealer, if you are serious about finding a .22 pistol for your survival ruck.

Every vintage Colt or High Standard .22 auto pistol I've shot, if not abused, shoots just these. A good used .22 auto pistol costs much less than buying a Ruger and then having it ""tricked out" by a gunsmith. Classic trapper's .22 autos are handy in the ruck and worth EVERY penny!

In my experience any .22 auto pistol you can still see rifling in will put all but the very best .22 target revolvers to shame. But some people like wheelguns, and surprisingly, an inexpensive .22 revolver may shoot just as well as an expensive one. If you can find one of the H&R Sportsman, High Standard Double-Nine or Sentinel 9-shot .22 revolvers, tight and in good mechanical condition, and cheap (less than $200) don't pass it up. You may be pleasantly surprised. Test fire it by cutting the corner out of a Kraft paper grocery bag, poke the muzzle out and fire a cylinder load through it double-action. Inspect the bag to see if any lead fragments cut holes when exiting the sides of the bag. If not, it's a keeper. Clean it well, and shoot GREASED or WAXED, UNPLATED ammo in it. Avoid plated, dry-lubed bullets in revolvers, because they lead up the forcing cone and cylinder throats, destroying accuracy.

Ordinary CCI Standard Velocity, the CCI High Velocity Small Game Bullet (SGB), CCI Subsonic Hollow-Point and Eley Sport are the best bang for the buck. Some batches of CCI Blazer shoot OK, but you need to test. The CCI Subsonic HP is the only standard velocity round I have found which expands reliably in my 4-1/2" Woodsman. Of the high velocity rounds the Winchester Power Point was best. Getting expansion from .22 revolvers is problematic because the cylinder gap reduces velocity and any cylinder misalignment causes asymmetrical scrubbing which accentuates initial yaw as the bullet leaves the muzzle.

In water-jug tests I have found that the same bullets which expand well from the 4-1/2" Woodsman do not from revolvers. In revolvers you are better off with solids. High velocity is OK if you can find a batch of unplated stuff that is accurate. I use the Hanned SGB die to clip the noses off to make flat points, which are more effective.

About 25 years ago I tested a dozen S&W .22 Kit Guns and K-22 revolvers. I didn't find any that would average less than 2" at 25 yards off a Ransom Rest, let alone off sandbags. Dad's old 1942 Woodsman put them to shame when fired off sandbags and would beat the Ransom Rest revolver results handily.

So practice with your .22 handgun frequently from a field position, using the sights you've got. Use a Para cord lanyard to steady it unless you can get Mr. Wabbit to stay STILL while you settle the gun in your Ransom rest, yeah, right? 8-)

[Dakoma]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ke4sky

While current fashion seems favor one or another variation of Ruger semi-auto pistol, I've had my share of frustration which these. Out of the box, hand-held from sandbags, Rugers average 1-1/2" ten-shot groups at 25 yards with standard velocity ammo of average quality. High speed ammo is closer to two inches. Firing off a Ransom rest improves this, but such results have little bearing on realistic expectations of field utility, because aiming and holding errors increase the "system error budget" more than inherent accuracy (or lack of it) attributable to the gun and ammunition. I've tested many Ruger .22 auto pistols off the Ransom Rest when I worked for the company. Their performance is generally quite good for a gun in its price range, i.e. two inches at 50 yards from machine rest for a series of ten-shot groups with good lots of high velocity ammo and 1.6" or less with "match grade" ammo (which costs about $100 a brick) the simple fact is that in field shooting it's hard to carry the Ransom rest along and get Mr. Wabbit to wait while you set it up. The Ruger trigger as it comes from the factory has issues. Inconsistency of trigger pull causes fliers. Getting a match quality trigger pull with minimal creep, no hiccups and a clean break requires a trip to a gunsmith, and replacement of the factory parts with custom, after-market items. If you replace any of springs with after-market sets you may induce functioning problems if you use anything other than high velocity ammo. But HV loads fail in the accuracy department and defeat the whole purpose of a small game gun capable of 50 yard head shots on camp meat. Fixed sights are more rugged and durable a field or “survival” gun subjected to rough use. You must to spend enough range time to confirm which ammo is most reliable and accurate in your gun, then get a multi-year supply of that and zero the gun. Testing outdoors is best, because lighting on indoor ranges is different and affects your zero. Fixed sights should be zeroed to strike about 1 inch above point of aim at 25 yards. The Ruger adjustable sights don't stay zeroed unless you flood them with LocTite after zeroing. Some users prefer scopes or red-dot sights. By the time you put quality, reliable optics on one of these you increase system cost several hundred dollars and the resulting "full race dragon" pistol tips the scales at about 50 ozs.! An old Remington Nylon 66, Marlin Papoose or Chipmunk youth rifle doesn't weigh very much more and is easier for the average person to use than a pistol to shoot camp meat. The barrels and chambers on current Ruger Mk.III pistols are better than on guns I tested back in the 1980s. Polymer frame pistols are much lighter than steel, while providing a full sized gun to hold onto, but trigger and sight problems still exist. By the time you buy a new Mk. III, do a professional trigger job and put good optics on it, you've invested more than you would to find and obtain a very good “shooter-grade” Colt Woodsman or fine pre-war High Standard. The "full race Ruger" is much more bulky and less handy than "Target and Trapper" pistols of the 1930s and 40s, designed for the very backpack survival situations we talk about. If you like single-actions the Ruger Single-Six is a sleeper. I find mine far more useful than the Bearcat it replaced. The Bearcat's fixed sights seem to always shoot low and right for me. For field work the Single Six needs better sights. I put Bowen Rough Country ones on mine. I prefer the Single Six in .32 HRM caliber as a trail gun because that option gives you reloading options, flatter trajectory which makes reliable game hits to 100 yards possible, useful field energy approximating the .32-20 Winchester, all in a trim field gun, with better accuracy than all but the best .22s. I recently put a 1942 Colt Sport 4-1/2" barrel Woodsman through its paces. I tested it hand-held on sandbags, indoors at 25 yards using the original iron sights. I fired five consecutive ten-shot groups with several ammos, then compared results against similar samples fired with some borrowed .22 revolvers and auto pistols deemed by their owners "good shooters." Auto pistol accuracy figures below represent averages of five consecutive 10-shot groups at 25 yards. Both Ruger pistols were fired using a 4X Leupold pistol scope to do a better job of testing the pistols, rather than my ability see the sights! The High Standard Victor is a proven match gun used by a Master competitive shooter, intended as a benchmark. I shot it as well hand-held at 25 yards off handbags with my 59 year-old eyes as the gun will do at 50 yards with the same ammo off the Ransom rest. So, that is the measure of truth and reality! The High Standard Model B is 1942 production with 6-3/4" barrel which was a retired bush pilot's actual Alaska survival gun. I shot old ammo from the survival seat pack that used to ride in his DeHavilland Beaver float plane and some new stuff. The Beretta 71 is the ca. 1968 "Jaguar" model which used to be imported into the US. This is the lightest 6" barrel .22 autoloader I have ever seen, weighing only 20 oz. These came in 2-barrel sets with 3.5" and 6" barrels. They are difficult to shoot accurately, but are quality guns if you can find one. *Two High Standard Sentinel revolvers tested are both fixed sight 9-shooters found I at pawn shops for around $150. These are serviceable if found in good mechanical condition which time and index well, without noticeable cylinder end play. I fired one 9-shot cylinder load in each per group. **The Colt Officer's Model Match was made in 1959 and is a target grade revolver, a 6-shooter. In it I fired TWO cylinder loads, totaling 12 shots per group. The Walther P.22 was a current model which illustrates my disappointment with current offerings of compact .22 pistols. It is barely accurate enough for combat training on silhouette targets. As a kid I could shoot my Whamo slingshot more precisely than this! Gun Bbl.Length Sights Ammo Avg. ES(Ins.) 5x10@25yds* 1942 Colt Woodsman 4-1/2" irons CCI Std. (USA) 1.5" CCI Blazer (USA) 2.0" Eley Std (UK) 1.25" 1942 High Standard Model B, 6/3/4" irons "Sterile Package Brown Box" FMJ Ball M24 2.0" Canuck (1965) HP 2.2" CCI Blazer (USA) 1.85" Eley Standard (UK) 1.5" HS Victor 5-1/2" irons Eley Std. (UK) 1.0" Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.3" HS Sentinel R107 revolver 4" irons CCI Std. (USA) 2.6"* Eley Std. (UK) 2.3"* Eley Sport (Mexico) 2.3"* CCI Blaser (USA) 2.3"* Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.7* HS Sentinel R103 revolver 6" irons Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"* CCI Blaser (USA) 2.2"* Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.5"* Ruger MkI 6-7/8" 4X Leupold CCI Std. (USA) 1.5" CCI Blazer (USA) 2" Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.1" Ruger Mk.III 5-1/2" 4X Leupold Eley Std. (UK) 1.25" Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.25" Walther P22 3.5" irons CCI Std. (USA) 4" CCI Blazer (USA) 5"+ Beretta Mod. 71, 6" irons CCI Subsonic HP (USA) 1.5" CCI Blazer (USA) 2" Eley Std. (UK) 2" Colt OM revolver 6" irons Eley Std. (UK) 2" ** Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"** CCI Blaser (USA) 2"** I've seen nothing in new .22 handguns to make me replace my old Colts or High Standards. If you search Cabellas Gun Library still can find a “shooter grade” Colt Woodsman, Huntsman or Challenger for around $700. A High Standard Model A, B, GB, D, H-B, or H-D in similar VG to Exc. condition will sell for $150 less than a Colt. The High Standard Model B uses the same magazines as the pre-war Colt Woodsman, and is similarly trim, light and accurate. High Standards in serviceable condition are well worth looking for to have shipped to your FFL dealer, if you are serious about finding a .22 pistol for your survival ruck. Every vintage Colt or High Standard .22 auto pistol I've shot, if not abused, shoots just these. A good used .22 auto pistol costs much less than buying a Ruger and then having it ""tricked out" by a gunsmith. Classic trapper's .22 autos are handy in the ruck and worth EVERY penny! In my experience any .22 auto pistol you can still see rifling in will put all but the very best .22 target revolvers to shame. But some people like wheelguns, and surprisingly, an inexpensive .22 revolver may shoot just as well as an expensive one. If you can find one of the H&R Sportsman, High Standard Double-Nine or Sentinel 9-shot .22 revolvers, tight and in good mechanical condition, and cheap (less than $200) don't pass it up. You may be pleasantly surprised. Test fire it by cutting the corner out of a Kraft paper grocery bag, poke the muzzle out and fire a cylinder load through it double-action. Inspect the bag to see if any lead fragments cut holes when exiting the sides of the bag. If not, it's a keeper. Clean it well, and shoot GREASED or WAXED, UNPLATED ammo in it. Avoid plated, dry-lubed bullets in revolvers, because they lead up the forcing cone and cylinder throats, destroying accuracy. Ordinary CCI Standard Velocity, the CCI High Velocity Small Game Bullet (SGB), CCI Subsonic Hollow-Point and Eley Sport are the best bang for the buck. Some batches of CCI Blazer shoot OK, but you need to test. The CCI Subsonic HP is the only standard velocity round I have found which expands reliably in my 4-1/2" Woodsman. Of the high velocity rounds the Winchester Power Point was best. Getting expansion from .22 revolvers is problematic because the cylinder gap reduces velocity and any cylinder misalignment causes asymmetrical scrubbing which accentuates initial yaw as the bullet leaves the muzzle. In water-jug tests I have found that the same bullets which expand well from the 4-1/2" Woodsman do not from revolvers. In revolvers you are better off with solids. High velocity is OK if you can find a batch of unplated stuff that is accurate. I use the Hanned SGB die to clip the noses off to make flat points, which are more effective. About 25 years ago I tested a dozen S&W .22 Kit Guns and K-22 revolvers. I didn't find any that would average less than 2" at 25 yards off a Ransom Rest, let alone off sandbags. Dad's old 1942 Woodsman put them to shame when fired off sandbags and would beat the Ransom Rest revolver results handily. So practice with your .22 handgun frequently from a field position, using the sights you've got. Use a Para cord lanyard to steady it unless you can get Mr. Wabbit to stay STILL while you settle the gun in your Ransom rest, yeah, right? 8-)

Sounds like you favor some of the old 22 pistols,there is nothing wrong with the colt woodsman or a smith&wesson K-22,you have probally spent more time shooting them than any other .Ammo selection in your comparison was minimal,some favor and will group better when you find the ammo it prefers.My MK-II Ruger favors the CCI Mini Mag,at 25 yds Mr. Blew eyed rabit is dead.at 50yds. I can hit a 12ga. empty shell every time,only jam I ever had was a bad lot of federal (one had no powder)the bullet nose was barely showing at the end of the barrel.I find trigger pull to be good and I have the standard model with fixed sights.Now for the Blew eyed rabbits ,that is not a type error because one eye blew this way and the other blew that way when shot.Thanks for the Long Story.

[Dan22]

I have both Ruger and High Standard pistols but If I have to stare down a rabid squrrel or wabbit on steroids, I want that High Standard in my hand.

While I will probably get another Ruger auto someday, I live for the day I can pick up another High Standard, S&W Model-41 or maybe even a Browning Medalist.

[Dakoma]

My first hand gun was a Llama I bought in 1969-70 6 shot revolver built on the 375 magnum Comanche frame with adjustable sights,I still have it and it is a exelent shooter gave $97.00 for it back then.This pistol will do better than 3/4 " at 25 yds and with CCI Mini mag,I still have it and shoot it often but the Ruger MK-II will hold 10rds compared to 6 and will shoot alot better so I of corse use it more often,dont believe that I would want a 22 pistol that shot 2" group's at 25yds.

[Rex in OTZ]

For High Standard revolver and semi-auto parts and tech support give Bob Shea a call (203)239-1012 Bob used to be a repair tech for High Standard back in the day.

[big shrek]

If you are going to get a Semi-auto .22 pistol, anything less than a Calico M-110 or M-100-P is a complete waste of time.

NOBODY has the ammo capacity of a Calico.
100 rounds of .22lr PER MAGAZINE will pretty much say what needs to be said

Add to that the fact that they are relatively simple to convert to Select-Fire...as easy as the Ruger Charger is...and someone's day is gonna be BAD when facing you

So far, after the first little issue of getting the firing pin in the right slot, I've not had ANY problems

[Dan22]

I'm an old blue steel and wood grips type of guy and these modern "Burn-Up the Ammo" types don't do a whole lot for me.

If I can't hit what I'm aiming at with a typical ten-shot .22 clip I shouldn't be packing a pistol.

When I was young I lusted after sleek classic sporter type bolt action rifles, levers and pumps. Now the younger generation wants the Military look. I think it has to do with the movies, we need some new cowboy movies like back in the fifties.

[LiveToShoot]

^+1...

...similar thoughts and feelings indeed.

[Hobbit]

Ruger mkII target

[Doc Jones]

Shrek makes a good point though. If you're going to depend on a .22 for multi-purpose pistol survival needs (in other words, dead bunnies and dead BGs) it'd be awfully good to have more than 10 shots. So, either carry two holsters (big gun for BGs, .22 for bunnies) or one holster with lots and lots of .22 capacity.

Personally, I'll be walking around with two holsters, one of which will hold a longish barreled .22LR revolver.

Doc

[Hobbit]

The one you have with you at the time SHTF.