The other day I was reading an artical about survivalism where somebody mentioned that over the long haul black powder weapons would have a major advantage over the high tech smokeless powder bullet hoses.
The thinking is that over time, ammunition components will run out, but you can (if you have the right components) make your own gun powder and cast your own lead bullets.
Meaning that you could stock up on percussion caps, lead bars and powder....
Of course a lot of folks balk at the idea of slow to reload BP arms.
The folks at Uberti make two interesting guns in their Millenium series.
One is a standard SAA clone chambered in .45 Long Colt.
The other is a near twin, but is chambered for percussion caps and loose powder and ball.....
They also make a .45 acp conversion cylinder for their .45 long colt guns.
If you could combine all three of these into one gun (and I am betting you could through one of the bigger importers, like Cimarron) you would have one heck of a long term survival gun.
Think about it. You could fire .45 acp in one cylinder for any .45acp ammo you could scrounge if your .45 colt ammo ran out.
Decades down the road when your brass has given out you switch to the black powder cylinder!
Also, SAA revolvers are easy to tear down and put back together compared to more modern weaponry. Get the springs that are prone to breakage for spares and you are set for doomsday.
I think that is a very valid direction of thinking. I would be very interested to hear any reports about a gun that combined all those listed Uberti attributes into one gun.
That would be a great gun to have, but what about carrying all the needed components with you in a bug out situation. Just seems like to much weight to be hauling around with you, with the lead bars, can of BP, molds...etc.
__________________
" This house is protected by the good Lord, and a gun......."
"Real" survivalists only use flintlocks, caps run out just like cartridges. You can home-make B.P. and can find flint naturally, as well as lead.
On a more serious note, I don't think we need to plan that far ahead, but a SAA w/ .45LC, .45ACP, and BP cylinders would be cool, although wouldn't ya have to switch the hammer/firing pin out to change it to BP?
__________________ I'm here for a good time, to h*ll with the red wine, pour me some moonshine!
Last edited by thrillbilly; 07-01-2009 at 11:20 AM.
Haha yeah, that would be for the END END END of the world! Between hunting and self defense and such, I'd imagine the odds of a single family outlasting even a few thousand rifle and pistol cartridges are slim (food would have run out, succumbed to diseased, finally killed by raiders, etc). So for the sake of simplicity it would probably be much easier and more practical to just stock up on regular ammo for your favorite guns.
However, I think I'd probably rather go with a simple bow and arrow or crossbow. Much easier for a novice to use and wield, and I'd imagine sticks are quite a bit easier to find than flint or especially lead, heh.
sounds like a viable weapon... i would think though, like JM said, we would go into a situation were we would save the BP and caps and balls for special occasions and go back to bows and cross bows for everyday use and hunting situations...
if we have to revert to useing BP, flint/cap and ball then i think sociaty as a whole will have slipped back into an agrarean sociate or pre-industrial civilization with no electricity and no one who knows how to bring it back... black powder will be used for making war and for conquering neighboring lands ... think medieval times and pre-industrial revolution meet throw in steam power and we get some interesting concepts for what that new civalization would look like...
__________________ 12-21-2012: Party like theres no tomorrow!!!
"
On a more serious note, I don't think we need to plan that far ahead, but a SAA w/ .45LC, .45ACP, and BP cylinders would be cool, although wouldn't ya have to switch the hammer/firing pin out to change it to BP?
I don't know. I haven't examined their black powder cap and ball version of the peacemaker. At one time, you could buy it through Cabellas, dirt cheap.
I know some cap and ball conversions use a black powder cylinder with six firing pins in the back of the chambers and a regular frame mounted or hammer mounted firing pin.
But even if you had to change out the hammer, it's not that hard. Anybody who thinks the Glock is a marvel of simplicity and few working parts has never examined a Peacemaker's exploded parts/dissassembly drawing.
My thinking was that you could use your .45 colt cylinder as long as your brass and reloads held out, then in time you could use the .45 acp cylinder to use scrounded up auto pistol rounds. When those are hard to come by, you could just switch cylinders again for the black powder and cap and ball cylinder. Hammer too, possibly.
Heaven forbid it ever happen, but you would be amazed at how fast our 'civlized' world could slip back to the very dark ages in no time.
Iarmus, I would recomend you read Lucifer's Hammer. Especially the chapter where the national guardsmen revert to cannibalism in two weeks after they THOUGHT they would be able to set themselves up as kings.
And Lobo, common survivalist thinking is that you have a retreat where you can cache things you will need, such as lead, powder, primers, etc...That kind of stuff can be buried in plastic tubes in caves provding you know how to store it right.
ther is asaying that goes like this:
mankind plans, the Lord guides!
the best-made plans fall to the wayside because of unvorseen changes.
as for the gun situation: a 357 Max with a change cylinder for 9mm and another spaer 357 cylinder alteres to take the 38S&W cartridge.
with a gun like this one covers the 38 pallet, 357 and 9mm (including Long & Largo)
10 different cartridges out of the same frame and barrle.
(38S&W, 38 LC, 38 Sp, 357 Max, 357 Mag, 9x17, 9x18, 9x19, 9 mm Long, 9mm Largo)
I've got a good Compound Bow for silent game-taking...wifey wants a crossbow soon...Carbon fiber arrows/bolts last for YEARS!!!
I'd just grab a good .22lr/.22WMR revolver & a rifle and plenty of .22lr bulk ammo & all the .22WMR's or any size I could find. Get about 5K rounds of both and you can hunt for decades!
The more guns you have, the more capability you have. After getting the .22lr/wmr's set, you then grab a .30-06/.30-30, a nice .223/7.62 semi-auto liberal-scarer, a couple of defensive-type pistols/revolvers...and plenty of ammo for each.
I shoot SASS so I've got the obligatory combos of .44 magnum pistols/lever-action rifle with the Double-barrel 12 ga...so there you need a Bunch of .44WMR/Spl rounds & 12-gauge buckshot/birdshot.
Revolvers are easier to deal with in harsh conditions...less likely to need repair parts, and if you get a repair kit right after you get the revolver, you are pretty much set for DECADES. Same with lever-actions & bolt-actions...spring kit & 2-3 firing pins.
And a good Anvil. Yeah, the kind they drop on Wile E. Coyote
You can make a LOT of spare parts with a big hammer and a big anvil. A forge is an easy but time-consuming build.
__________________ Marlin & Calico Specialist
I'm not just Trigger Happy, I'm Trigger Ecstatic!!
The other day I was reading an artical about survivalism where somebody mentioned that over the long haul black powder weapons would have a major advantage over the high tech smokeless powder bullet hoses.
The thinking is that over time, ammunition components will run out, but you can (if you have the right components) make your own gun powder and cast your own lead bullets.
Meaning that you could stock up on percussion caps, lead bars and powder....
Of course a lot of folks balk at the idea of slow to reload BP arms.
The folks at Uberti make two interesting guns in their Millenium series.
One is a standard SAA clone chambered in .45 Long Colt.
The other is a near twin, but is chambered for percussion caps and loose powder and ball.....
They also make a .45 acp conversion cylinder for their .45 long colt guns.
If you could combine all three of these into one gun (and I am betting you could through one of the bigger importers, like Cimarron) you would have one heck of a long term survival gun.
Think about it. You could fire .45 acp in one cylinder for any .45acp ammo you could scrounge if your .45 colt ammo ran out.
Decades down the road when your brass has given out you switch to the black powder cylinder!
Also, SAA revolvers are easy to tear down and put back together compared to more modern weaponry. Get the springs that are prone to breakage for spares and you are set for doomsday.
Instead of stocking up on re-loading supplies get a .45 auto and stock up on ammo! I would like to meet the guy who wrote that article. It's SILLY!
__________________ "To disarm the people was the best and most effectual way to enslave them" G. Mason In God We Trust
My only concern about my trusty cap-n-ball guns, is that they will corrode away before I run out of primers! I have never left them loaded for any length of time, and poppin' caps for the sake of a good cleaning sounds like a waste of munitions and unneeded attention.
Given the option, I would certainly burn through my BP supplies first, save the cartridges for later.
__________________
I take my coffee how I take my women: bitter and overbearing.
Haha yeah, that would be for the END END END of the world! Between hunting and self defense and such, I'd imagine the odds of a single family outlasting even a few thousand rifle and pistol cartridges are slim (food would have run out, succumbed to diseased, finally killed by raiders, etc). So for the sake of simplicity it would probably be much easier and more practical to just stock up on regular ammo for your favorite guns.
However, I think I'd probably rather go with a simple bow and arrow or crossbow. Much easier for a novice to use and wield, and I'd imagine sticks are quite a bit easier to find than flint or especially lead, heh.
So, when you run out of your stored up smokeless powder, do you honestly think you can manfuacture it?
I don't know how to tell you this, but I know people who shoot black powder rifles, make them and make their own powder too.
It can be done. Well, unless you are a city boy, of course.
Good luck with that paperweight when the marauders come for ya, brother.
SO you Honestly think you will be able to get Good charcoal , Sulfur , and Saltpeter (from Chile) when the SHTF...and Then you can make a viable Black powder that is reliable on top of that ???
Have you ever tried to make BP ??? I have...It isnt easy and it is very time consuming , and then it May not work like it is supposed to..
I think I will just stock pile lots of ammo , brass, primers , powder and bullets and take my chances...If I have to expend 200,000 rounds of ammo , the odds of my survival arent real good anyway !
__________________
[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
actually I have a formula for making blackpowder. the charcoal is easy to get. sulphur is a bit harder to come by depending on location. saltpeter is potassium nitrate, very easily found everywhere there are humans or animals. (It's in urine) not hard to make at all. Potassium nitrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
a good book written by mountain folk from years ago has all the info you need to make flintlock rifles and making your own gunpowder along with many other things. its called "Foxfire" series of books. Foxfire book 5 has all this info in one section for making blackpowder and flintlocks. there were several books in this series, 10 or 11, or maybe more. each book is about 500 pages of every kind of thing imaginable for living off the land and making things. everything from backyard iron forges to herbal remedies and wiskey stills, hide tanning, butter churns and all kinds of stuff.
I don't remember if it's in the book or not, but you need to "Korn" the powder, get it wet and roll into logs. let dry completely and break to desired size granules. wetting it and drying it (korning) improves its effieiency 10 fold.
I don't remember if it's in the book or not, but you need to "Korn" the powder, get it wet and roll into logs. let dry completely and break to desired size granules. wetting it and drying it (korning) improves its effieiency 10 fold.
Yeah, I read about that before (not in those books, but I'll remember those titles) but I think it was said that the 'korning' process was done with alcohol, sound right? As far as I know Potassium Nitrate is available at nearly all garden stores (and my area has a lot of the 'indoor gardening specialists').
__________________
I take my coffee how I take my women: bitter and overbearing.
Yeah, I read about that before (not in those books, but I'll remember those titles) but I think it was said that the 'korning' process was done with alcohol, sound right? As far as I know Potassium Nitrate is available at nearly all garden stores (and my area has a lot of the 'indoor gardening specialists').
you could be right on the process. I got that book around here somewhere, if I can't find it I know it's still in print @$12.00
Moose has a good point. Women would pee in pans and dry it to make black powder during the Civil war. Your going to have a task with all those women! No time to make them in the field.
You shoot the same ammo your enemy does: 9mm, 45, .223, 7.62x39, .308 and 12 GA and 50 cal.
