[tlarkin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lobo0311

Tell that to the people that died from it dead is dead regardlewss of how many ppl died from other causes, if it kills one person it becomes deadly. Also practice makes perfect, if the first test isn't what yer lookin for then try again. Just playing a little Devils advocate here. Maybe we're 'sposed to be lulled into a sense of complacency. Look at the Jews in WWII Germany, " C'mon in take a nice hot shower....."

Oh man now you are grasping at straws man! The jews were being oppressed by a militant totalitarian government. Their situation was completely 100% different than ours. To even try to compare concentration camps to the holocaust is asinine and insulting to those that survived it.

You can't even begin to compare our government to theirs. We don't run on a single party, we still have our checks and balances. Come on people, seriously, come on! Most of you are smart enough to know all of this, why go off the rocker and try to parallel WWII Germany to current USA?

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tlarkin

Oh man now you are grasping at straws man! The jews were being oppressed by a militant totalitarian government. Their situation was completely 100% different than ours. To even try to compare concentration camps to the holocaust is asinine and insulting to those that survived it. You can't even begin to compare our government to theirs. We don't run on a single party, we still have our checks and balances. Come on people, seriously, come on! Most of you are smart enough to know all of this, why go off the rocker and try to parallel WWII Germany to current USA?

Because people never look at the facts and like to be scared its what runs the world remember how the media was running up the North Koreans Nuking us on the fourth yeah and as soon as that didnt happen everyone is tryin to find something else to be scared of

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lobo0311

Tell that to the people that died from it dead is dead regardlewss of how many ppl died from other causes, if it kills one person it becomes deadly. Also practice makes perfect, if the first test isn't what yer lookin for then try again. Just playing a little Devils advocate here. Maybe we're 'sposed to be lulled into a sense of complacency. Look at the Jews in WWII Germany, " C'mon in take a nice hot shower....."

Im just telling people that swine flu wasnt what it was run up to be and in mexice pretty much anything will kill you they have no health care system.

[Lobo0311]

Was not intending to compare governments just specific instances, as in they didnt figure anything bad was going to happen either ( well not the first group anyways). As far as my opinion of our current state as a nation, we need to wake the hell up and realize the nimrod we have running it does NOT have the publics best interests in mind. As for grasping at straws... Well i'm sure the citizens of New Orleans didnt figure on having OUR government leave them defenseless by unlawfully confiscating their firearms, therefore leaving guns in the hands of only the L.E.O's, military (neither of which would respond till the water receded), or those who shouldnt have hasd them in the first place. But I guess this is what we get when the sheeple elect what as far as I can tell boils down to a cowardly, tree hugging, dirt worshiper who is so afraid of pissing the rest of the world off that he's willing to reconsider fundamentals that have kept this country going for the last 300 years.

[Lobo0311]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Kentucky Fan

Im just telling people that swine flu wasnt what it was run up to be and in mexice pretty much anything will kill you they have no health care system.

Yep you're right can't even drink the water down there.

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lobo0311

Was not intending to compare governments just specific instances, as in they didnt figure anything bad was going to happen either ( well not the first group anyways). As far as my opinion of our current state as a nation, we need to wake the hell up and realize the nimrod we have running it does NOT have the publics best interests in mind. As for grasping at straws... Well i'm sure the citizens of New Orleans didnt figure on having OUR government leave them defenseless by unlawfully confiscating their firearms, therefore leaving guns in the hands of only the L.E.O's, military (neither of which would respond till the water receded), or those who shouldnt have hasd them in the first place. But I guess this is what we get when the sheeple elect what as far as I can tell boils down to a cowardly, tree hugging, dirt worshiper who is so afraid of pissing the rest of the world off that he's willing to reconsider fundamentals that have kept this country going for the last 300 years.

The stuff in New Orleans makes me glad i live in a red state lol. Everyone hear is armed and we know how to shoot.and Obama is terrible but he is not evil and your right he is a coward and it angers me how he is letting little countries we could squash in an instant try to push us around.

[Lobo0311]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Kentucky Fan

The stuff in New Orleans makes me glad i live in a red state lol. Everyone hear is armed and we know how to shoot.and Obama is terrible but he is not evil and your right he is a coward and it angers me how he is letting little countries we could squash in an instant try to push us around.

I think the evil or not question remains to be seen, still a litle early ion his term. Don't like the man but hope he proves me wrong.

[tlarkin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lobo0311

Was not intending to compare governments just specific instances, as in they didnt figure anything bad was going to happen either ( well not the first group anyways). As far as my opinion of our current state as a nation, we need to wake the hell up and realize the nimrod we have running it does NOT have the publics best interests in mind. As for grasping at straws... Well i'm sure the citizens of New Orleans didnt figure on having OUR government leave them defenseless by unlawfully confiscating their firearms, therefore leaving guns in the hands of only the L.E.O's, military (neither of which would respond till the water receded), or those who shouldnt have hasd them in the first place. But I guess this is what we get when the sheeple elect what as far as I can tell boils down to a cowardly, tree hugging, dirt worshiper who is so afraid of pissing the rest of the world off that he's willing to reconsider fundamentals that have kept this country going for the last 300 years.

Ok this is why I have a problem with posts like this, and this is nothing personal but the small differences mean a lot.

1) Katrina was a state government fiasco. Not a federal one. The local government horded people into the stadiums, they did the gun grabs, not the feds, it was the state and county and city officials.

2) Please show me in the last 20 years, heck last 30 years where government had it in our best interest? Sure, we had our ups and downs and the economy spoke for that on one level. What did the last administration do? Get us into two wars, that are very misguided and cost us American lives. Drive us into debt times infinity, and knowingly kept companies afloat so the next guy could deal with them all the while chipping away at our personal rights and freedoms.

3) Captialism is a failed and flawed system from the core. We are bound to fail eventually. The rest of the world will catch up with us and it is happening in Aisa right now 10x the speed of sound. That was a hyperbole by the way. India and China are booming and in 10 years they will have the largest English speaking nation, not the USA any more. With cheaper labor, and 100% English speaking work force what do you think will happen? Would it not be wise to make great relationships abroad now so our trade and economies can both share a good fate? Or should be just be like shut up I bow to no one and I am a ruthless ass kicking American? I mean what way do you want it?


You know when Obama was talking to Pakistan leaders he was talking about local poetry and the government there was very impressed. No one had learned to read into their culture before. You say he is doing bad and setting us back? No, he is setting us forward for when we are no longer number one and no matter how you want to grasp it, we won't be number 1 forever. Everyone knew that eventually the rest of the world would start to catch up with us. Technology allows for it to happen.

What do you think is going to happen if we keep having all our enemies and no longer are the number one military power. Heck, even North korea is catching up on nuclear power. We had it over 60 years ago but they are just now catching up. Think about another 100 years from now and what will happen?

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tlarkin

Ok this is why I have a problem with posts like this, and this is nothing personal but the small differences mean a lot. 1) Katrina was a state government fiasco. Not a federal one. The local government horded people into the stadiums, they did the gun grabs, not the feds, it was the state and county and city officials. 2) Please show me in the last 20 years, heck last 30 years where government had it in our best interest? Sure, we had our ups and downs and the economy spoke for that on one level. What did the last administration do? Get us into two wars, that are very misguided and cost us American lives. Drive us into debt times infinity, and knowingly kept companies afloat so the next guy could deal with them all the while chipping away at our personal rights and freedoms. 3) Captialism is a failed and flawed system from the core. We are bound to fail eventually. The rest of the world will catch up with us and it is happening in Aisa right now 10x the speed of sound. That was a hyperbole by the way. India and China are booming and in 10 years they will have the largest English speaking nation, not the USA any more. With cheaper labor, and 100% English speaking work force what do you think will happen? Would it not be wise to make great relationships abroad now so our trade and economies can both share a good fate? Or should be just be like shut up I bow to no one and I am a ruthless ass kicking American? I mean what way do you want it? You know when Obama was talking to Pakistan leaders he was talking about local poetry and the government there was very impressed. No one had learned to read into their culture before. You say he is doing bad and setting us back? No, he is setting us forward for when we are no longer number one and no matter how you want to grasp it, we won't be number 1 forever. Everyone knew that eventually the rest of the world would start to catch up with us. Technology allows for it to happen. What do you think is going to happen if we keep having all our enemies and no longer are the number one military power. Heck, even North korea is catching up on nuclear power. We had it over 60 years ago but they are just now catching up. Think about another 100 years from now and what will happen?

I dont care what anyone says 10 years from now asia will have a massive collapse and china will be capatilist and if it is so flawed why is our system of government and economy the longest running and massive system in the world we are going through tough times we will get through it we always do look at the great deppression if you need an example the US will be the #1 power in the world for the forseeable future

[tlarkin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Kentucky Fan

I dont care what anyone says 10 years from now asia will have a massive collapse and china will be capatilist and if it is so flawed why is our system of government and economy the longest running and massive system in the world we are going through tough times we will get through it we always do look at the great deppression if you need an example the US will be the #1 power in the world for the forseeable future

It is flawed because it is based on inflation and a system of debt. The rich get exponentially richer while the poor barely become middle class. I am not saying there is a better system out there nor am I saying that I have the answers. I am just saying that capitalism is flawed in many ways, and so is a free and unregulated market. I could go into many examples of how it hurts the consumer and the employee but that would turn over into a whole different thread...

The great depression was fixed with a bandaid approach, because the system is still flawed is why we are still seeing problems.

Capitalism by definition will shift more and more money into Asia over the next decade. Think about it, you got 1 billion people that will work for half the price of an American and speak engrish, I mean English. Think about how many jobs will be out sourced. That is why your capitalism system is flawed. It is based on a system where people constantly have to spend money and invest into the economy, well if big business doesn't want to give Americans money to spend by providing them with good paying jobs, then how can the economy last?

[larmus]

side note: we used to be a british colony hence our system of govt. and our economy didnt start untill 225+ yrs ago... england was runing off of palimentary control and queens and kings long before us... our economic base and monetary distrabution is spread out around the world but i would tend to think chinas econmy would have to be the largest just on sheer volume of people... JMO.

[bigrebnc1861]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tlarkin

I am not saying our government hasn't done some shandy things, I am saying please provide proof of it. I am sorry but I failed to see any credible references to what you posted.

What do you mean credible references? The sources I provided are true.

[bigrebnc1861]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Archetype_wyo

The US doesn't have a Bio/Chem Weapons facility just like they don't have Area 51. I'm sure its there, we just don't know about it. The government doesn't have to tell us everything and they don't for a reason.

Well to tell the truth when I was stationed at Spangdalhem AB Germany my base had an alert area and a WSA. i WAS ASSIGNED TO THE 52 SPS (SECURITY POLICE) In the wsa they had the big boys and they also had Chemical bombs and Bio Bombs. that was 1982 to 1984

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by larmus

side note: we used to be a british colony hence our system of govt. and our economy didnt start untill 225+ yrs ago... england was runing off of palimentary control and queens and kings long before us... our economic base and monetary distrabution is spread out around the world but i would tend to think chinas econmy would have to be the largest just on sheer volume of people... JMO.

I was talking about the actual government which is the longest running single form in the world

[tlarkin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Kentucky Fan

I was talking about the actual government which is the longest running single form in the world

Have we outlasted the Roman empire? I can't recall how long they were in rule of Europe and the surrounding areas.

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tlarkin

Have we outlasted the Roman empire? I can't recall how long they were in rule of Europe and the surrounding areas.

We our the longest form that is still going and rome was originally a republic and the roman form of government shifted many many times our form works it goes through highs and lows but it will survive

[tlarkin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Kentucky Fan

We our the longest form that is still going and rome was originally a republic and the roman form of government shifted many many times our form works it goes through highs and lows but it will survive

What about the Chinese Dynasties and the mandates of Heaven and Earth? Some of those Dynasties lasted a really long time, and that was a form of government.

The Roman Empire I do believe had 200 years of peace during it's hay day, which is more than we can say about any current society. I can't recall the specifics, looks like later on I will need to bust out some books off my book shelf and look that stuff up.

[Kentucky Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tlarkin

What about the Chinese Dynasties and the mandates of Heaven and Earth? Some of those Dynasties lasted a really long time, and that was a form of government. The Roman Empire I do believe had 200 years of peace during it's hay day, which is more than we can say about any current society. I can't recall the specifics, looks like later on I will need to bust out some books off my book shelf and look that stuff up.

Im just tryin to say that our system works it has for a long time and will continue too if you look at our history there have been times a lot worse than right now. imo i believe that we are destined to soon fight WW3 we will win the economy will fix itsself its the way the world works. and before anyone says we would lose think about the fact that the US spends almost as much money on our military and the rest of the world put together and the next country behind us in that spending is an ally. and in war money is king. The peace was called the pax romana btw

[Lobo0311]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tlarkin

Ok this is why I have a problem with posts like this, and this is nothing personal but the small differences mean a lot. 1) Katrina was a state government fiasco. Not a federal one. The local government horded people into the stadiums, they did the gun grabs, not the feds, it was the state and county and city officials. 2) Please show me in the last 20 years, heck last 30 years where government had it in our best interest? Sure, we had our ups and downs and the economy spoke for that on one level. What did the last administration do? Get us into two wars, that are very misguided and cost us American lives. Drive us into debt times infinity, and knowingly kept companies afloat so the next guy could deal with them all the while chipping away at our personal rights and freedoms. 3) Captialism is a failed and flawed system from the core. We are bound to fail eventually. The rest of the world will catch up with us and it is happening in Aisa right now 10x the speed of sound. That was a hyperbole by the way. India and China are booming and in 10 years they will have the largest English speaking nation, not the USA any more. With cheaper labor, and 100% English speaking work force what do you think will happen? Would it not be wise to make great relationships abroad now so our trade and economies can both share a good fate? Or should be just be like shut up I bow to no one and I am a ruthless ass kicking American? I mean what way do you want it? You know when Obama was talking to Pakistan leaders he was talking about local poetry and the government there was very impressed. No one had learned to read into their culture before. You say he is doing bad and setting us back? No, he is setting us forward for when we are no longer number one and no matter how you want to grasp it, we won't be number 1 forever. Everyone knew that eventually the rest of the world would start to catch up with us. Technology allows for it to happen. What do you think is going to happen if we keep having all our enemies and no longer are the number one military power. Heck, even North korea is catching up on nuclear power. We had it over 60 years ago but they are just now catching up. Think about another 100 years from now and what will happen?

It became a Federal fiasco when F.E.M.A told ppl that they were NOT allowing firearms in the temp housing they provided AND when they took WEEKS to get basic necessities (i.e water among others) to the people that needed it. Must be nice to live in a sugar coated world with cotton candy skies and a damn lemon drop sun. I love this country, not a big fan of the ones running it.

[tlarkin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lobo0311

It became a Federal fiasco when F.E.M.A told ppl that they were NOT allowing firearms in the temp housing they provided AND when they took WEEKS to get basic necessities (i.e water among others) to the people that needed it. Must be nice to live in a sugar coated world with cotton candy skies and a damn lemon drop sun. I love this country, not a big fan of the ones running it.

Yeah but that isn't FEMA's fault per se, as in the fault of their existence. It was the man in charge at the time that put a, what was this guy's experience again? Horse breeding or horse racing or something? He put a friend of his in charge of FEMA who didn't have a clue from a hole in his arse to know what to do and what was going on.

Also, the bulk of the blame lies in the local government, as they stood there and did nothing and then pointed the finger to the feds every chance they got. To me, a state's first line of protection and defense is from the local government, if they can't do the job then why have them there in place?

Gun grabs during catastrophes are not unheard of. There was a giant tornado is western KS a year or two ago that wiped out a good chunk of a small town and the local government did the gun grab.

In fact in most cases of gun grabs that I read about it is almost always the local government that does it. Some power hungry LEO or Sheriff that wants no one to have guns during a disaster in a disaster area. I can only assume it is to stop the shooting and looting? That doesn't matter when criminals keep their guns though and law abiding citizens hand them over.

So, I still in almost every case I look at, fail to see where the feds gun grab. Every case I have looked at off the top of my head has always been local governments doing it. Local law enforcement is what most does the gun grabs.