[dog party]

It really depends on the situation.

Situation (1) If we're talking about someone walking on my property, a passive approach by the "invading" person/group, would warrant a prepared defensive posture, but would not warrant me firing on you automatically. If someone comes on my land in an offensive/assault manner...introductions will be made via any ID that happens to be on the dead body.

Situation (2) If I am approaching someone else's property, looking for trade opps or possible alliances, I would approach under a white flag (passive approach). Personally, my white flag says "Culpeper, VA Minute Men" and "Don't Tread On Me" on it...but that's just me.

I spend all my pre-SHTF time making alliances with friends and neighbors. I'd rather not do that after SHTF. But it will most likely be necessary at some post-SHTF point.

Situation (3) Meeting someone on the street, I will be prepared for, and expect the worst from everyone I meet. About the same as now. :-)

[thrillbilly]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lobo0311

Now THATS the best idea Ive heard so far. Just dont forget to have some back up when you approach scannin the area for additonal threats/targets. Also how will you know when you have someone to inspect?

I have lots of kinfolk for back-up, and we'll see them because we'll have lookouts as well as scout/hunting parties out and about. I believe in the cleared field of fire concept, don't give your enemies anything to hide behind, while you yourself are secured in a elevated firing position.

I feel that any person with useful skills and a willingness to work will be welcome. The idea of a "lone survivor" is a fantasy, it takes a community to prosper if we go back to manual labor and casual violence.

[Lobo0311]

Quote:       Originally Posted by thrillbilly

I have lots of kinfolk for back-up, and we'll see them because we'll have lookouts as well as scout/hunting parties out and about. I believe in the cleared field of fire concept, don't give your enemies anything to hide behind, while you yourself are secured in a elevated firing position. I feel that any person with useful skills and a willingness to work will be welcome. The idea of a "lone survivor" is a fantasy, it takes a community to prosper if we go back to manual labor and casual violence.

I agree wholeheartedly, who knows I just may bring my clan and come callin when SHTF.

[samuel]

Even if it were a real nice person,all it takes is one person carrying a disease. ,,,sam.

[waterdog]

better off, just tribe'n up you'll know your friends from your enemies.

[22-rimfire]

Quote:       Originally Posted by randomwhiteguy

You think , you're armed and I am armed and we see each other after a world changing event i don't know you and you don't know me are we going to smile and wave or are we going to pop shots?

It is all going to depend on what really happens (SHTF scenario) and whether people understand what is really happening after it happens. I don't think I'll be shooting anyone. A protocol will develop for advancing toward armed folks in a real situation. Yeah, if you are the one advancing, you will always be taking a chance.

[one in the pipe]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Actually , it isnt pointless , because it begs to question how will we determine "friendlies from hostiles" in a SHTF condition... How will you make that determination ?

If they run they are hostiles if they stand still they are stupid hostiles . Not my job to care what your intentions are if you can't read DO NOT TRESSPASS and hear that cage full of hungry hounds . God help your soul .

[petrol]

I'll be waving a rainbow flag and wearing pink hot pants. Remington 870 in my right hand SKS on my back. 4 cats on a leash. please don't shoot. Kidding, but seriously how am i supposed to bug out with a 60+ year old mother (and her cats)? I'm not leaving her to the zombies (or other)

[tclu1308]

Have any of you guys read the book On Killing? I just looked around for a while and couldn't find it, but it is a book that enlightened me, and was recommended by a close friend who served in Iraq. Sorry about the Wikepedia reference but it was the closest thing at hand. I would recommend this book to anyone who ponders these types of questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Grossman_(author)

Personally, as a hunter, I have felt remorse when killing an animal, and respect the feelings involved as it is part of the hunt and also the lesson. Maybe it is odd but I say a prayer of thanks whenever I kill an animal, and I carry the weight of those deaths on myself as an understanding of the temporary freedom and beauty of life, and the power that I have as a man to both create and destroy. I have often wondered when reading historical accounts of warfare how the actual close up killing of another human must affect another. There are accounts of bodies being found on Civil War battlefields where both soldiers had been impaled and killed by the bayonet of their enemy, face to face. What a horrid way to die! It makes one wonder how long of a chain of excuses those men had when they faced the Creator. I am not a pacifist by any means, and I realize how a bad deal can escalate to violence. I pray I will never have to use weapons or killing intent to protect myself and my loved ones. But there is a mentality involved in all of this, and if it ever comes to the point where that mentality is necessary for survival, I would hope that I will ponder it after the smoke clears and not before the hammer drops. It is easy to justify actions after the fact. It is very difficult to question your motives in a split second.

[knightRider]

i just read that book, i think the best parts are about the ww2 training to today's training and the difference in actual combat and combat kills. I also found the parts about proximity to the kill and the stress involved after the kill enlightening.

[tclu1308]

Quote:       Originally Posted by knightRider

i just read that book, i think the best parts are about the ww2 training to today's training and the difference in actual combat and combat kills. I also found the parts about proximity to the kill and the stress involved after the kill enlightening.

+1 A target is a whole lot different than a head or a torso. Train the mind and the body will follow. Blood and guts are a part of life that many of us have never seen, but the decay and stench of death follow behind our every motion. To inflict death on another is probably more difficult than to cause your own.

[Joe Brainard]

One more reason I think that staying put is the smartest option.

[Sam Ruger]

I think shooting at others when the SHTF depends upon whether its an urban or suburban situation. If I'm in the inner urban city in the dark and a dozen guys deliberately surround me - Yes - I might try and shoot my way out of that. But I know from experience that such surroundings can be innocent.

If I'm out in the woods and I meet someone else, it would never occur to me to shoot him.

The bottom line is, if you're going to shoot someone when the SHTF, that person has to be a knowledgable threat. That is, he has to see where it's to his advantage to kill you. So, if your "cave" is packed with everything to survive, and the guy coming towards you knows it, and he ain't got it, then he's threat. But if you ain't got squat, and he knows it, he's got no reason to kill you and you him.

Weird thread. It never occured to me that anyone would shoot at me just for meeting up with them. But, evidently, some here would.

[DesertRaider109]

Why even attract attention to yourself with a big "DO NOT ENTER WE WILL SHOOT" sign? All that tells people is that there are well-supplied and well-stocked people inside that they should try and loot.

Nah, keep em guessing. Put up a few "BIOHAZARD" and "WARNING: CHEMICALS" signs or something. See if anyone enters when they see that. Make them think there's nothing to be had on this land. And if anyone does come on your property, fire some warning shots to make them get the hell off it.

If they continue to advance, that's when you shoot them. Bottom line is that during SHTF, the best thing to do is just to not be noticed.

[thrillbilly]

the sign won't be on the road, but quite a ways down a gravel lane. They would be able to see the farm buildings by then, hard to hide two huge barns!

[randomwhiteguy]

I'm glad some people here took this seriously and thought about the questions. I guess it all depends on how bad things are and what the cause was , but some of the responses were people you don't want to encounter , because they will be so afraid they will shoot on sight. It seems the most pepared people would rather try to form some kind of groups beforehand and absorb smaller ones , Not randomly kill people in the streets.

[troy2000]

What is commonly referred to as a SHTF situation would bring us back to the earlier days in much of what is now the United States, when there was little protection from law or government. People relied on themselves and their families, and learned to cooperate with friends and neighbors for the common good.

People were careful, but they didn't normally go around shooting first and asking questions later. Nor would I expect them to in a post-apocalypic world, once the dust settled a little.

[Seraph]

I hope in the long run that in a SHTF situation that having to defend or repel intruders from the homestead takes a long time in the coming. I say this do to the fact that taking another persons life is a life changing event in every way that a person can imagine. Taking anothers persons life and the effect is nothing that you can plan for, think ahead about or even imagine the impact intill that deed is done.


Now in my opinion in a SHTF situation, if you are on my land you are a threat. That being said there is alot to be said for warning shots, if the people are not there planing on robbing you blind,killing,stealing etc then chances are when a drop a .308 bullet into the dirt 5 yards out in front of there feet they are going to lose control of the bladder and or bowels and freak the hell out. On the other hand people who are moving with a purpose are going to draw weapons, run for cover and start scanning for the sorce of fire. Now I know that I can get my self into situation that may not be needed by firing this warning shot, but I have posted all the way around my land at 5 feet intervals the standard posted sign with a addition of ( if you see a red marker, drop your gear and wait for contact ). Now all the way around my homestead I have flagged out in green yellow and red, green 300 yards yellow 200 yards and red 100 yards. Now I know this may seem a bit over the top but I find if you know the yardage it makes for a easier shot.


Now I know something like this isnt going to work for everyone, but I have spent alot of money time and effort in getting my home, land, and everything else situated to my likings and prefer to keep at as such. Now in a long term SHTF I may have to deal with fact that I have to take another persons life, and it is something that I am not looking forward to having to deal with again. My advise to anyone on this, of coarse is going to be not to get in the situation in the first place. If you are out moving in a SHTF situation there is going to be more to worry about then running into other people in the same mindset, as chances are if you are Bugging out and come across someone else out in the middle of no where then they are probly bugging out as well.


In closing sorry if this drifts in and out, its late, I just had a tooth pulled and the pain killers have effected the ability to have a complete thought. If anyone members happen to be in the upstate NY area let me know, that way in a SHTF situation I will have a extra place setting at the table ahead of time for you.

[Sam Ruger]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Seraph

I hope in the long run that in a SHTF situation that having to defend or repel intruders from the homestead takes a long time in the coming. I say this do to the fact that taking another persons life is a life changing event in every way that a person can imagine. Taking anothers persons life and the effect is nothing that you can plan for, think ahead about or even imagine the impact intill that deed is done. Now in my opinion in a SHTF situation, if you are on my land you are a threat. That being said there is alot to be said for warning shots, if the people are not there planing on robbing you blind,killing,stealing etc then chances are when a drop a .308 bullet into the dirt 5 yards out in front of there feet they are going to lose control of the bladder and or bowels and freak the hell out. On the other hand people who are moving with a purpose are going to draw weapons, run for cover and start scanning for the sorce of fire. Now I know that I can get my self into situation that may not be needed by firing this warning shot, but I have posted all the way around my land at 5 feet intervals the standard posted sign with a addition of ( if you see a red marker, drop your gear and wait for contact ). Now all the way around my homestead I have flagged out in green yellow and red, green 300 yards yellow 200 yards and red 100 yards. Now I know this may seem a bit over the top but I find if you know the yardage it makes for a easier shot.

Just a guess here but I doubt you get too many door to door salesmen?

[Seraph]

Sam,

Honestly I dont get bothered that much with anyone, its about 3 and a half miles down a semi private road before my driveway. The road is not up kept very well and is in the condition of a seasonal road. The few neighbors I do have and I have had the same problem, most of that is illegal hunters, atv's and snowmachines. My major issues I try and combat are the atv's and hunters, that either tear up the three food plots I have out back or take deer on the property.

I am a little cautious of people and in that I am probly what most people consider a bit twitchy about people on my land. This is mostly because in the last 3 years I have had half a dozen break in attempts, living in the county has its pluses but with the way things are going as of late it seems it also makes people targets.