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08-05-2009, 02:48 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,561
| Tough call on flag etiquette.
California Father Refuses to Take Down Tattered U.S. Flag - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
"A California dad is refusing to take down the tattered and torn American flag that's been flying on his lawn in Fresno for almost a year, despite complaints from neighbors on his military-heavy block and from a national veterans group that says he's mistreating the Stars and Stripes."
"But Haros, a Vietnam veteran, told his son last September that he'd wave that flag until he comes home from Iraq."
You know I'm pretty big about proper flag etiquette, but I'm really torn about my opinion on this. I can absolutely understand and deeply appreciate the sentiment this man (a Vietnam vet) is showing. At the same time,
"Corporal Paul Haros is expected to be back home by Friday after two tours in Iraq as a member of the Army Reserve and a tour with the 82nd Airborne Division in Operation Desert Storm."
His son is back in the states already.
I just wonder what everyone thinks. I do not, for a second, perceive even the slightest bit of malice in this, but I wonder if it would be deemed an "appropriate" display of the flag?
No flaming, please. I just happen to think this could make for a fascinating debate topic.
- Coeloptera
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08-05-2009, 03:04 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008 Location: South West Ohio
Posts: 2,237
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I'm a Big Flag Waver. I would have to stand next to the old Vet on this one. I would leave it up until his son came home and then they both could take "Old Glory" down and put up a new one. If I was his neighbor and being a Vet myself, I would like to be out there with them to help them retire and old friend.....  
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Last edited by White Rook; 08-05-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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08-05-2009, 03:11 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: atlanta, but much rather be in valdosta
Posts: 3,247
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well, its his right to do it
he aint disrespecting it really, he made a promise, and to be perfectly frank i hate it when people who might live down the street from me start wanting my family/house to look the way they want (actually right now a real estate agent has been harassing us via city ordinance and "turning" us in for petty shit like dormers not be painted right or whatever, they wanna put up this mcmansion next door and they think we make the property look unattractive, really they are just chodes)
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08-05-2009, 03:13 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lost Angeles
Posts: 826
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Since having this flag in it's present condition means something, I feel it should be left as it is.
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08-05-2009, 03:29 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SF Bay area, California
Posts: 739
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I think that people on the "military heavy block" and the "veteran's association" should understand and respect his reason for doing this. It will be a touching ceremony to replace that flag when the son comes home!
Perhaps the flag that survived "The rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air" was a bit tattered, too, yet it is the subject of our national anthem and worthy of our respect.
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08-05-2009, 04:23 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 3,629
| Quote:
Originally Posted by White Rook  I'm a Big Flag Waver. I would have to stand next to the old Vet on this one. I would leave it up until his son came home and then they both could take "Old Glory" down and put up a new one. If I was his neighbor and being a Vet myself, I would like to be out there with them to help them retire and old friend..... | I'd bring the beer.
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08-05-2009, 04:42 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York
Posts: 2,630
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Originally Posted by rondog I'd bring the beer. | I'll bring some weed...The man is showing no disrespect for the Flag. His intentions are honorable, and I stand with him..
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08-05-2009, 05:06 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York
Posts: 7,813
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By strict flag etiquette, the old vet is wrong. The protocol is that when a flag becomes too faded or tattered for display, it is retired and either buried or burned, preferably the latter, with suitable ceremony.
By statement of support for his son and emotional commitment, the old vet is absolutely right. This particular flag means something and is flying in its tattered state for a reason. When his son comes home, I hope he and the old vet invite all the military veterans and other interested citizens to come and stand in an approximation of ranks as the old ensign is lowered and a new flag run up to replace it.
I also have a suggestion for the old vet and his son.
Take that flag, iron it flat, if necessary put in a couple of stitches so the stripes lie more or less straight, and then mount it in a picture frame under museum-grade, ultraviolet-proof glass and hang it somewhere appropriate, like the den or the local VFW hall. If the latter, hang a little brass plate under it telling the story: "This flag was flown by [Old Vet] to honor his son [New Vet] while he was serving in Iraq. The flag flew continuously from [date] to [date] until [New Vet] came home safely from his deployment." This is the kind of memorial people can understand and relate to; simple, yet eloquent.
Last edited by Cyrano; 08-05-2009 at 05:12 PM.
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08-05-2009, 07:29 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,561
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Originally Posted by Cyrano I also have a suggestion for the old vet and his son.
Take that flag, iron it flat, if necessary put in a couple of stitches so the stripes lie more or less straight, and then mount it in a picture frame under museum-grade, ultraviolet-proof glass and hang it somewhere appropriate, like the den or the local VFW hall. If the latter, hang a little brass plate under it telling the story: "This flag was flown by [Old Vet] to honor his son [New Vet] while he was serving in Iraq. The flag flew continuously from [date] to [date] until [New Vet] came home safely from his deployment." This is the kind of memorial people can understand and relate to; simple, yet eloquent. | Hmm...what about repairs while it was flying? As I recall, that's an appropriate option.
I couldn't imagine throwing it out after all that anyway. A damaged flag can be kept as a keepsake, a damaged one just should be disposed of properly if you are disposing of it.
- Coeloptera
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08-05-2009, 07:47 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,719
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Coeloptera .... a damaged one just should be disposed of properly if you are disposing of it.
- Coeloptera |
I agree. Fly it until it evaporates. It's his flag and his choice. Everyone else can kiss his.........
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08-05-2009, 07:57 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ottawa, KS/ Ft.drum NY
Posts: 1,207
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I am all for the vet, he did his service to his country and his son is doing the same. Why should anyone feel they have any right to tell him to take it down? He is not meaning any disrespect by it, actually the total opposite. We need more folks like this man around.
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08-05-2009, 08:09 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD
Posts: 1,180
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I have to stand by the vet on this one...
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08-05-2009, 08:38 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South of the Northern Region
Posts: 1,772
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Intent means a lot to me.
If this was some a-hole just trying to make a statement, I'd go over there and take it down for him.
But since this isn't the case, I can live with it. I hate to see our flag fly that way, but like I said, there is no ill intent and I could live with it in the short term.
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08-05-2009, 08:48 PM
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#14 | | Stop the insanity
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 7,278
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People need to get over the petty stuff and let him fly his damn flag until his son comes home. There are bigger fish to fry and I can't believe somebody would take time out of their day to go harass this guy.
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08-05-2009, 08:56 PM
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#15 | | Banned
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Olive Branch, MS.
Posts: 5,651
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08-05-2009, 09:04 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca
Posts: 20,410
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob | thanks bob
this is from that site.
The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.
When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.
i think it is very clear.
if the guy loves his country etc.
do it the way it is supposed to be done.
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08-05-2009, 09:09 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ottawa, KS/ Ft.drum NY
Posts: 1,207
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this is a very interesting subject. i am going to bring it up at work tomorrow and see what my troops have to say.
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In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons.
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08-05-2009, 09:11 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,449
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I am happy to see the vet fly old glory. Sure would be nice to have a bar b q and invite the neighbors when his son gets in the front yard and sees the promise his dad kept ....
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08-05-2009, 09:23 PM
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#19 | | Banned
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Olive Branch, MS.
Posts: 5,651
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Originally Posted by Earl Easter I am happy to see the vet fly old glory. Sure would be nice to have a bar b q and invite the neighbors when his son gets in the front yard and sees the promise his dad kept .... | Sounds like a good plan Earl.
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08-05-2009, 09:53 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,720
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I would be proud to stand side by side with this man.The entire block should get together when the son comes home and help put a new one up and retire the old one in a manner that the old vet deems proper.( Burn it or keep it)
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