[thrillbilly]

I have numerous civilian hunting packs...external frames, backpacks, waistpacks, etc.
I think they'll work alright...I can't justify the expense for tacticool MOLLE/ALICE gear. I'd rather put that money into more ammo or the "Buy Another Gun" kitty.

And as I've stated before, discretion is the better part of valor. Military surplus makes you look like a militia member who was just waiting for the world to collapse with glee...civilian/hunting gear makes you look like a poor refugee adrift in a world gone mad. That might make a difference in how LEO/Military approaches you post-SHTF.

[larmus]

you deffinetly have a point thrillbilly... but i still like my mismatched gear i just bought some pouches at the gun show yesterday that were made in '42 and they are heavy duty canvas with no wear on the seams at all...

[BigEd63]

I don't think how I look wil have too much influence on how I'm treated by the military or LEO's. What orders they have during a given SHTF situation will.

And the given situtation will dictact how I'll be dressed and kitted out. I've got a mix of MOLLE, ALICE and civiy gear. What I use wil be at my discretion dependant also on the situation.

Right now GI MOLLE gear, mainly woodland and 3-color desert, can be had for cheap if you look around as the US Military is still surplusing it out in favor of the newer digital patterns each branch of service has adopted.

[thrillbilly]

^I'm just putting it out there. It may not be true in all cases, but it's a idea to ponder.

Perception may not be reality...but it does affect how people interact.
Camoflauge comes in many forms. Where I live, a person wearing Armani would stand out, and in NYC a person wearing Levis with a Mossy Oak muscle shirt and John Deere cap would be highly noticed.

[Metronome]

Just found a small backpack from Walmart with the Remington label on it; $10 and it came home with me. It even sits high enough not to interfere with my waistpack.

I will do my homework and see if a MOLLE setup is in the cards next year.
I can't help it, I am a sucker for cheap gear!

[sea_chicken1]

I keep a laptop bag in my truck with a 3 day supply of ammo, food, cash socks, ect. and I also keep an extra set of cargos cross country tennis shoes and a button down shirt so I look normal. That is incase I have to hike from work to home because I have to cross a narrow two lane bridge to get from work home to my family and if it is clogged out or knocked out by an earthquake I will have to hike down and around cliff's to nab a jon boat to get across. What I was looking for was for a stash in my home incase shit gets bad on a katrina level because at that point it wont matter what I look like when I'm defending my home or getting somewhere safer.

[larmus]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Metronome

Just found a small backpack from Walmart with the Remington label on it; $10 and it came home with me. It even sits high enough not to interfere with my waistpack. I will do my homework and see if a MOLLE setup is in the cards next year. I can't help it, I am a sucker for cheap gear!

nice buddy, get some picks up so we can see what your working with... and never again shall it be called a "fanny" pack... you go buddy!!!

[sv_libertarian]

I've never been in the military, but I use surplus gear because it's tough. That said for what you will spend for quality civilian gear, you can get better quality mil gear at a fraction of the price. I had a full set of ALICE gear, and thought I was on top of the world with a large ALICE pack with frame and all manner of goodies... then I handled a MOLLE pack and it all changed for me. I ditched the ALICE gear, and started acquiring MOLLE gear on ebay, and from some friends who had been over in the sandbox. The price for MOLLE gear is even cheaper now than it was a year ago when I was buying it. Cammo patterns have changed, and woodland or desert cammo gear is cheap. A full MOLLE system would include a vest that you can tailor with various pockets to suit your need, a 3 day "assault pack" that can take pockets and pouches on the side, as well as a butt pack.

This in turn can integrate into the main MOLLE ruck system which is a nicely shaped and sized tough plastic frame with COMFORTALBE shoulder and kidney straps, a main ruck which features an outside zippered compartment, and a large flap which also has clear plastic you can put a map underneath. Below the main ruck is your sleep system carrier which will fit the standard 3 piece USGI sleep system, or most any other portable sleeping bag.

You mount a "sustainment pouch" on each side of the main ruck which will hold two full MRE's or even more if you strip them down, or pack the food of your choice in them. The assault pack and buttpack can be attached to the main load, and there are also general purpose pouches which will hold a 1 quart canteen and cup, rifle mags, or whatever else you can stuff in there which can be mounted as well. A camelbak or similar bladder can be used with this system, and there are also lashing straps to attach various gear to your load. There is a nice pouch that fits the USGI trifold or similar e-tool which I have and use. Adapters for older ALICE gear can be had (I use them for ALICE canteen pouches mainly) as well as one that will let you fasten a KA-BAR or other sheath knife to the outside of your ruck. Given the low prices for this gear, there is little excuse to not start assembling and upgrading to MOLLE if you have any disposable income.

MOLLE is the current system, and there will be a wealth of top quality surplus and after market gear for a very long time.

The beauty of the MOLLE system is you can have a load as small as a custom loaded vest or vest with buttpack, to a full marching loadout, and every imaginable config in between.

I use one of my 3 day assault packs as a daily backpack, and also have a Camelback BFM bag in digital that I use as a daypack when I need to carry a bit more. The regular MOLLE vest does not fit me (I'm 6'9") so I got rid of it, but will find an aftermarket vest to suit me. I would be hard pressed to give up my MOLLE gear for something different, and I DO NOT miss my old ALICE pack and frame ONE BIT!

[Tuckahoe]

I picked up two MOLLE patrol packs for $1.99 each and one large pack for $4.99 at Goodwill store in Jacksonville NC all three are brand new.

[Rockh0und]

Having been issued and used both types over my military career I'd have to go with the MOLLE. If the ALICE clips come open, bend, or break you run a risk of loosing some gear. Plus if you get it wet too often you have to replace the clips or they rust. It's a pain in the butt weaving the MOLLE straps through the loops the right way but when you do, if they come unsnapped at the bottom, your gear will still be there when you need it. And most of the pouches you get have more mounting surface on them so you can keep adding until it just gets ridiculous.

[SightNSqueeze]

I'm not overwhelmingly partial to one over the other. Each has certain advantages and the ALICE clips and MOLLE straps can be interchanged in each other’s systems. ALICE harnesses and ALICE packs became unusable only because of the newer ballistic vests coming on line. The ALICE pack shoulder straps slide right off of the sloping shoulders of the ballistic vests. For civilian use, I still prefer the “ALICE medium pack” with external frame, though the MOLLE pack is a good pack too. The disadvantage of the MOLLE load bearing philosophy is that it is dependent on the ballistic vest, unless you are in a position where you can use the MOLLE “vest” without ballistic protection. In the military, such a scenario is not allowed. If you have to shed the ballistic vest for any reason, you had better have all of your gear on an external MOLLE vest or it all goes by way of the ballistic vest. When I was in Iraq, I didn't see any MOLLE vests, just gear attached to the MOLLE loops on the ballistic vests.

Perhaps the best balanced arrangement is the ALICE light load ensemble (yes, they call it an “ensemble” in the FM) for hot or intermediate weather. The heart of that system is the ALICE "Y" or "H" harness and equipment belt. Attached to the bottom rear of the harness at the level of the belt is the 3-day pack on the rear. On the belt are one or two canteens, tri-fold entrenching tool, and 2-3 magazine pouches. On the weak shoulder harness strap is room for a flashlight, medical compress, and compass/GPS pouch. A sleeping bag and rain coat/poncho can be tied to the 3-day pack with para-cord or straps. Cold weather would require the use of the medium or large ALICE pack, 3-section sleeping bag, field jacket, and other cold weather clothing and gear.

Finally, while the Army completely bought into the MOLLE system, the Marines are still mixing the two. The harnesses and equipment belts are all but gone, but the old BDU and DCU pattern ALICE and MOLLE equipment pouches and magazine pouches are still showing up attached to the Marines’ new brown ballistic vests.

Just a note. The ARMY is not altogether happy with their ACU color pattern and they are actively looking for a replacement pattern. So, look for a flood of surplus ACU gear in the future.

[sv_libertarian]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Tuckahoe

I picked up two MOLLE patrol packs for $1.99 each and one large pack for $4.99 at Goodwill store in Jacksonville NC all three are brand new.

I am jealous. Although I've got everything I need but a frame to put another MOLLE main system together.

[sv_libertarian]

I do like the older ALICE LBV equipment, especially the last generation vests that integrated with the pistol belt. Problem is, they just aren't made for someone as tall as I am. So I generally do without, although I might get another ALICE Y harness and pistol belt. That said, the MOLLE frame and ruck system, and the smaller assault packs work just fine and dandy for hiking or day use depending on the load I want to carry. Last winter I packed up the full system, when I was taking a trip across state. Had a week's worth of clothes, all the christmas gifts I was going to give, etc.. in it and was quite comfortable.

[SightNSqueeze]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rockh0und

Having been issued and used both types over my military career I'd have to go with the MOLLE. If the ALICE clips come open, bend, or break you run a risk of loosing some gear. Plus if you get it wet too often you have to replace the clips or they rust. It's a pain in the butt weaving the MOLLE straps through the loops the right way but when you do, if they come unsnapped at the bottom, your gear will still be there when you need it. And most of the pouches you get have more mounting surface on them so you can keep adding until it just gets ridiculous.

You're right about the rust problem with the ALICE clips. I remember years ago when an after-market company marketed clips that didn't rust. The military didn't make them official issue, probably because they were working on the MOLLE system. If ALICE used straps instead of clips, and if vest friendly shoulder straps were utilized on the ALICE packs, I think things would have stayed much the same.

[sea_chicken1]

Everyone talks about the surplus gear ("Tacticool") being more expensive but from what I have been seeing latley it is cheaper and made to take abuse better than alot of the civilian gear.

[SightNSqueeze]

Quote:       Originally Posted by sea_chicken1

Everyone talks about the surplus gear ("Tacticool") being more expensive but from what I have been seeing latley it is cheaper and made to take abuse better than alot of the civilian gear.

You are right. MOLLE and ALICE gear really is cheaper now more than ever before. Don't rule out the British Pattern 58 gear. It is similar in quality and ruggedness of the original U.S. M-1956 ALICE web gear and two complete sets can be had through Sportsman's Guide for about $29 for the pair.

[larmus]

^thats funny you should say that, i just order two from CTD and they come with everything above plus the backpack...

[SightNSqueeze]

Quote:       Originally Posted by larmus

^thats funny you should say that, i just order two from CTD and they come with everything above plus the backpack...

You won't be disappointed. The Brit Pattern 58 is just a little heavier than the later ALICE gear, but it is definitely better made and I think better balanced. Dozens of countries used it for three decades.

[larmus]

thats what i was hopeing for... i like the bed roll attachment, ive been throwing that one around in my head as to how i was ging to make one, then i found these, so problem solved... lol.

[larmus]

just got my m58 gear in today, they smell kinda funky so they have been fabreezed and are going to spend the night outside till they quit stinkin... lol. Over all im impressed with them (i got two), they are well constructed and show some use but heck, that means they work... cant wait to get them outfitted to my gear and try them out...