[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by kansascoyote

Troy I guess you dont understand the differance between TRUST and the words you put in my mouth like cynical and bitter but what would I expect . You are just that way your bubble is what it is . I can not change that. As far as lighten up Pal I am not the one that refere's to people on this site as idiots or mindless kool-aid drinkers . Perhaps you should remove the log from you eye before you worry about the splinter in mine. Good day sir.

Kansas, I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been called a Kool-Aid drinker in these forums. That and 'idiot' are some of the minor insults I take on a regular basis. And what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander. If people don't like it when I say, "no....you and your buddies are the ones drinking the Kool-Aid," maybe they shouldn't accuse me of it first.

And getting back to your offer to 'pray twice' for me: don't bother. My relationship with God is between the two of us, and I really doubt any input from you is going to affect it--for better or for worse.

[lvlt]

cyranos post 06:06am
"if an order was given to confiscate privately owned firearms from the citizens of the United States, would you obey it?"
The response of the Marines, from general officers to privates, was "No." Many responses explained with varying degrees of eloquence that such an order would be illegal so long as the Second Amendment is the law of the land, and that Marines are not obliged to obey illegal orders no matter who issues them. Friends of mine who have served in the Corps say that there are lectures on legal and illegal orders, and the Constitutional basis for some of these gets discussed from time to time. The Marines want their grunts to understand what it is they are sworn to uphold."

lets see what raving lunatic did that survey. as a former marine corps officer, from a very unpopular era, i find this ridiculous.

in ocs there are indeed lectures on illegal orders (none on constitutional law) and the procedures to follow should there be a question of its legality. they are quite succinct, and definitive. marine corps officers do not issue such orders.
i hope a current or younger former officer reads this with the same feeling of disgust that i did, and will respond.
before that insane senario could happen, it would have to go through congress, overturn usc 18, passed ,i think, in 1877 (posse comitatus) ruled favorably upon by the supreme court, only then would the jcs give the ok including the commandant of the marine corps, to follow that lawful order.

pat

[wunhunglo]

Question for y'all. Did all you ex-military guys not do crowd/Riot control training? I know I did enough of it when in but we had our own 'police' actions within our borders to cope with. (Northern Ireland & fire-brigade strikes)

[lvlt]

wunhuglo, interesting question, , i signed up for every possible course offered, like it or not, never even heard of one involving crowd control. most of my time was spent outside the us, i am 62 and could have been the times. my guess would be military police may have had that type of training.it will be interesting to see what other vets have to say.

nothing to do with the us military, but i spent 10 years in africa, not "rainy west africa tho."

pat

[wunhunglo]

What a life you guys must have had??? Signing up for courses?? Sheer luxery. Most of the time we were just told what we were doing! ie. "Next week you are going to xxx for riot control training"! etc. etc. (however we did also get asked to/told to volunteer for some specialist training.)

[lvlt]

sorry, must have mislead you on "courses", the marine corps would offer types of training based on test scores relating to, attitude, mental acuity physical fitness, many of these courses were multi service, even international, 2 guys i remember were from the black watch.
by courses i meant escape and evasion, jump school, pressure chamber school,, scuba school, jungle warfare school, mountaineering (two types offered), many others i am too tired to think of, but you signed up (volunteered), to be chosen.

good nite or day,

pat

[wunhunglo]

Yup our courses were run slightly differently, more on a Unit base. Like, "next month the Regiment (en mass) is going to for jungle training"! Parachute, diving (I don't know if the Brit Army did these but wouldn't be surprised) and specialist mountaneering were just same as yours, specialist courses, though we also have our specially trained Mountain Warefare troops.

[Russ Hatch]

Fort Gordon Georgia, Military Police, Crowd control (riot control) 1965.

Three years later police academy, riot control classes. We had these classes annually for the next three or four years and then nothing for the next 25 years. Guess the public wasn't stirred up enough. Nobody hollering at the town hall meetings.

[TACAV]

I think a bunch of you are all uppity over nothing.

As an LEO I know that various places all over the US and elsewhere have hundreds of training conferences, seminars, training opportunities, etc on everything from riot control to drug labs, to interview and interrogation techniques, swat, gang violence, active shooter, forensics, etc etc etc all the time, every year.... Some are annually and many are traveling and hosted all over the US in various areas to cut down on travel expenses to try to make the training open to more people around the country.


this is nothing new and very common place.

[Rave]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

I think most of them are somewhere in the middle, myself. They aren't averse to helping themselves and their friends where they can. But I think they also try to pass bills they think will do the country some good. One of the problems with our current system is the cost of running for office. If a Congressman doesn't start collecting campaign contributions for the next election before he's even sworn in for his current one, he's behind the eight ball. That means his primary job becomes fund raising, and it's a bloody miracle anything useful at all gets done in between.

Not to argue the point,just saying,the politicians are consistanly voteing right down the party line,what ever their personal thoughts are,their vote is what counts,isn't it?

[jimkim]

This is nothing new. In GA POST mandates you must get X number of hours training per year in order to keep your certification. They also offer special classes when they feel they might be needed. In the Nineties they had two special cases that required additional training. One was crowd control after the LA riots, and the other was in regard to a motorcycle gang that was looking to relocate from PA to Middle GA. Luckily, for us, they decided to pass through to FL.

[TACAV]

Quote:       Originally Posted by jimkim

This is nothing new. In GA POST mandates you must get X number of hours training per year in order to keep your certification. They also offer special classes when they feel they might be needed. In the Nineties they had two special cases that required additional training. One was crowd control after the LA riots, and the other was in regard to a motorcycle gang that was looking to relocate from PA to Middle GA. Luckily, for us, they decided to pass through to FL.

yea indeed, pretty much everywhere police are certified by the state/commonwealth or fall under some sort of regulatory commission or group to maintain an appropriate standard of performance and keep everyone on the same page. Or at least to a minimum as some agencies may be more trained or equipped than others.

A large part of this is in service training minimal requirements. To ensure that LE is up to date on whats new, or to maintain proficiency standards in shooting, defensive tactics, and other more academic subjects such as law updates etc. In many places there is a certain number of hours a year that each officer, agent, deputy, etc, have to meet at a minimum to keep their certification.

All of these extra training courses can often fall under and count towards those required training hours. Also as many departments often go above and beyond the minimum requirements each department can choose to send people for extra training or individual officers can take extra training on their own time.

[lvlt]

i hate getting old, i missed the context and point of the original thread.
i want all leos, don't care from what dept/who's in charge etc. to have as much training as possible.

pat

[TinCan Assasin]

I've done some house clearing training, but not riot control. It's rare in the states for the military to get involved in that, and every time they do, it's disasterous. (e.g. Kent State, Katrina) Posse Comitatus Act prevents the Federal Military from acting as Law Enforcement, and the National Guard doesn't do it without some sort of State Emergency.

TCA