So, I'm new to firearms and am in the process of acquiring a few (while one can) for the purpose of defending home and hearth and doing a bit of hunting should the SHTF.
I just bought a .22LR revolver for fun.
I plan to purchase the following soon:
A couple of shotguns
A good revolver (maybe a .357 to shoot .38 & .357)
A couple of .22LR rifles
I'm wondering if I ought to get a larger rifle or two as well. It occurs to me that for flexibility, ease of storage, and maximization of my ammo budget, it might be good to have a rifle that shoots pistol ammo (or vice versa?).
I've heard there are 9mm rifles but, from what I've read, 9mm isn't particularly inspiring as a defense caliber or rifle round. Also, I really don't care much for semi-automatic pistols...much prefer revolvers.
I've also heard that there are (or once were) .357 rifles.
Is there a rifle that shoots colt .45? If so, maybe I'd pick up a Taurus Judge or Colt revolver.
Anyway, is this a reasonable thing to persue or should I just get a .223 rifle or some such and quit being a doofus?
Also, what about using shotgun slugs for deer or BGs at a distance or whatnot and skipping the rifle altogether?
What about just sticking with the shotguns and .22s? Can you kill a deer with either one realistically?
Thanks in advance for your indulgence and patience with what may be dumb questions.
You can kill a deer with slugs pretty easy. 22lr may not be legal/humane to kill a deer with. You can get Lever actions chambered in .45 colt , .357 mag, .44mag. Yeah i would get a larger rifle you can look at the handi rifles they are a single shot rifle in various calibers. Any questions ask.
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Well, I reckon everything you're looking for is out there including shotgun/rifle combo guns. Pistol calibre rifles are very popular in the UK, I have 2 in .357 and know guys who have them in virtually every pistol calibre going.
As for killing deer with a .22 yes it can be done, it's not considered ethical but if you can get close enough it can be easily done.
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i have taurus judge revolvers, i am also thinking of a 45lc rifle.there are several in that caliber, and i love the judge.
if interested just google 45lc rifles.
So are there significant disadvantages to 45 or .357 rifles compared to a .223, .308, 30-06 or the other more popular rifles. How do ballistics and ammo costs compare?
well a rifle round is a lot faster than a pistol round so engagement range will be considerabbly less with a pistol. That is the biggest disadvantage for me. Costs vary if you handload you can cut most of the costs.
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So are there significant disadvantages to 45 or .357 rifles compared to a .223, .308, 30-06 or the other more popular rifles. How do ballistics and ammo costs compare?
Doc
You can't really compare pistol calibre rifles to full bore rifle calibres performance.
Ammo costs are usually cheaper, Accuracy is fairly good to 100 yards or so and recoil is virtually non-existant.
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Seems like the OP has been answered...
I would suggest that after the shotties, .22s, and whatever pistol caliber carbine you choose, you get yourself a good bolt-action scoped rifle in a major caliber for long-distance engagements or hunting. .308, 30-06, .270, .280, etc. are some calibers to consider.
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Your thoughts are wide ranging yet all are important
The .30-06 is the higher caliber round with the widest range of factory loadings in terms of bullet weight and it has successfully taken all North American game for over 100 years. If I were you I would buy one.
Handgun cartridges have not proven especially useful in rifles although
the concept has stayed in the marketplace easily since the late 1800's with the .44-40 being chambered for handguns and rifles. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I would not go this route.
The 9mm truly has a cult following although military and police experiences have shown it not to be always effective in putting down an assailent. Personally, and again this is just my opinion, I would not go this route.
I am not a fan of the .223 beyond the arena of varmit shooting. One of my favorite rifle cartridges is the .243 Winchester which is good for game up to and including deer. I have a Rossi rifled slug gun in 20 gauge and I will tell you it has put down power and accuracy especially in the more realistic slug ranges of fifty to seventy five yards. The 20 gauge slug is nicer on the shoulder than is the 12 gauge slug.
.22lr cartridges are neither realistic nor humane for deer.
Last edited by nathangdad; 08-24-2009 at 04:44 PM.
So are there significant disadvantages to 45 or .357 rifles compared to a .223, .308, 30-06 or the other more popular rifles. How do ballistics and ammo costs compare? Doc
Pistol caliber rifles are handy for close range work (100 yards or less), but they are not a substitute for a serious rifle, such as Thrillbilly listed.
It is fun to shoot pistol caliber rifles, because they have much less recoil, and can use the same ammo as your pistol.
Examples of pistol caliber rifles I have are the Ruger 10/22, Marlin .45ACP Camp rifle, Marlin Lever action rifles in .357Mag, .44Mag, and .45 Colt.
The pistol caliber ammo is less expensive than true rifle caliber ammo, because it uses less powder and brass to make it. Also, the pistol bullets do not have to be as precisely made as the rifle bullets, so are less, as well.
To answer your fist question, specifically, YES, there are significant disadvantages to pistol ammo, due to the lack of velocity achieved by the bullet. They just do not have the energy that the .30 caliber (or other) rifle bullets can impart to the target.
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The frontier concept of rifle and revolver both using the same common ammunition still makes sense. The combination of a fixed sight, double-action .357 revolver such as a Ruger SP101 for close-in personal defense and a Marlin 1894C with ghost ring peep sights, or optional and quick detachable optics for times when better accuracy, greater range, magazine capacity and rapidity of fire to 100 yards or so are needed, is hard to beat.
Back East it is getting much more difficult to find someplace to practice with a military caliber rifle. Sure you can get a .22 LR upper for your AR, but it isn't the same. Indoor ranges will let you use a rifle which fires handgun ammo, so my most-used center-fire rifle is a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum.
The .357 lever action is manageable by females and youngsters, it has low recoil and is fairly quiet when used with standard velocity lead .38 Special ammo. It is a fun camp gun which works great for small game, feral dogs and groundhogs. When firing .38 Special standard velocity non +P lead bullet ammo from a rifle, velocity remains subsonic, producing a mild report little louder than a .22, which has advantages for discreet garden varminting.
Its potential for home defense with .357 ammunition, is nothing to sneeze at. A .357 levergun with proper ammunition is fully adequate for deer within 100 yards and with peep sights is more accurate on silhouette targets out to 200 yards than your average AK. But leverguns are familiar and nonthreatening in appearance, so they "don't scare the natives" as a "black rifle" often does.
New leverguns also cost less than so-called "black rifles." So use the money you save to buy a Dillon RL500B to load your own ammo! Used .357 leverguns sell for about 60% in stores of what a similar rifle costs new. Around here the Marlin Micrgroove leverguns sell for about $100 less than a similar model with Ballard rifling, because people think that "Microgroove don't shoot lead." But in my experience of some 25 years, the 1894C with Microgroove rifling shoots lead loads just fine, as long as you use ordinary standard velocity and +P .38 Special, but not lead bullet.357 Magnum loads.
Microgroove barrels do handle jacketed bullet .357 Magnum loads very accurately. The 158-gr. softpoint is what you want to use for deer. But jacketed bullets are expensive and in reality you will use very few of them. In our house standard velocity 158-grain lead semi-wadcutters are the basic farm utility load for rifle and revolver, and are what you want to set up your RL500B to produce in quantity. Bulk Remington .358 diameter 158-grain semi-wadcutters in .38 Special brass with 3.5 grains of Bullseye approximate the velocity, acuracy and energy of factory standard velocity loads. Velocity is about 750 f.p.s. from a 3 inch revolver, 950 f.p.s. from an 18 inch carbine and 1030 f.p.s. from a 24 inch long barreled Cowboy Limited. Our ordinary lead plinking loads shoot into 4 inches at 100 yards from a rifle with iron sights. Jacketed softpoints will shave an inch off of that. If you buy components in bulk, your cost to reload brass that you already have with plinker loads is about 8 cents per pop. Cast your own bullets and save a nickel. Or add another dime if you insist on a jacketed slug. Ugh!
Cowboy assault rifle.. Mine rifle has a Trijicon Reflex II sight Model RX09 with A.R.M.S. #15Throw Lever Mount fitted into an XS Systems Lever Scout rail. There are less expensive sights, but using one on an M4 convinced me it was THE go-to solution for aging eyes. Money wasn't an issue. Quality beats the Chi-com and Russian imports hands down, Trijicon is American made and it costs no more than top-shelf Euro or US scopes.
XS mounts are dimensioned for Weaver bases. Fitting a military Picatinny base requires deciding which cross-slot you want to locate your optic onto. You want the optical sight placed at the balance point of the rifle. When you have located the proper cross slot to position your sight, adjust the slot width and depth with a square Swiss needle file to enable the Picatinny mount crossbar to press-fit snugly into it. Retract the thumb clamps and slide the A.R.M.S. mount over the front of the rail. The rear mount clamp tightens against the angled sides of the rail only. You want no slop after you have fitted the crossbar slot depth and corners. After fitting, the A.R.M.S. #15 thumb-lever mount offers quick disconnect with perfect return to zero. I can use either the tritium illuminated, no batteries required ever, combat optic or backup ghost ring peeps at will. I zero 158-grain magnum loads to coincide with the pointed top of the chevron reticle at 100 yards, and standard velocity .38s hit "on" at 50 yards. Holding the legs of the chevron tangent to the top of a 12-inch gong at 200 yards I can hit it with magnums every time. Placing the chevron across the shoulders I keep most rounds on an Army E silhouette out to at 300 if I do my part. Works for me.
Would someone PLEASE build a lever-action carbine chambered in .357 Maximum and .445 SuperMag?!?!?! I mean you could still use Magnums in them but it would be nice to step up to power close to the .35 Remington or .444 Marlin if you felt the need.
I have a Puma 92 lever action rifle in .45 Colt. Its a nice little gun. Light weight, light recoiling but able to handle some of the stouter factory loads offered. A Model 92 in .44 Magnum would probably be a better choice if intended for use as a hunting or SD gun. There is a vast variety of revolvers chambered in .45 Colt as well as .44 Mag.
Another good choice might be the Ruger 77/44 chambered for the .44 Mag. You get the simplicity, accuracy, and reliability of a bolt action and still shoot the same ammo as your side arm.
For the power you are trying to achieve from Magnum pistol rounds, why not buy a Mosin Nagant and get a few thousand rounds of better surplus 7.62x54r? It would be far less money, and while the surplus is not reloadable, so what when the stuff is so little $$$ compared to any magnum pistol round. The .357 magnum from a lever action does not have the long range capability as a rifle round, and niether does a shotgun slug... even the sabot slugs that cost too much money. Buy more common stuff, especially if prepping for a SHTF scenario. You need lots of uncommon N. American ammo if in the US, or more common military stuff like .223(5.56x45) or .308(7.62x51). The same goes for handguns. While the revolvers work great, outside of .357 magnum, .38 Special, and .44 Magnum, the rest become rather limited in availability and will likely dry up quickly once things begin to go to pot. I find having different caliber handgun and long gun calibers fine, as they load thru magazines and have much different roles.
As a final note, the .45 Long Colt ammo is expensive as hell. Also, it is a little harder to reload for than many other rounds, from what I have been told. I have a few hundred rounds of this in blackpowder loads for a Walker Colt repo with a conversion cylinder. It is fun, but would not be my choice for a bad situation.
My first handgun was a S&W 620 in .357 and I figured I'd stick with revolvers. I had read somewhere about a rifle pistol combo in matching calibers and started looking at lever action rifles. I like the look of the Henry BIG BOY but money was a bit tight for a while. anyway, in the end I found a Marlin camp .45 to go with my Colt Commander. great combo, share mags. both have fairly little kick, esp the Marlin. and I can use it at the indoor range. I'm still thinking about a .357 lever though.
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