[Rambo]

This is just getting weird. Reality check! Anyone??!?

[BunnyWabbit]

http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m6d16-Obamas-health-care-plan-Illegal-or-unethical

http://www.newswithviews.com/BreakingNews/breaking165.htm

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1580701&page=17

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

I've skimmed through that mess several times, trying to find out where the proposed health care bill actually requires, or even recommends, that people be chipped. I didn't find it. There's a page number for the definition of class II devices (which are already in use), but none for any part of the bill that discusses their use. Looks like more pointless fearmongering to me....my mother had a morphine pump implanted, which pinpointed the degenerating parts of her spine. It stopped her from having to live in a drug-induced stupor from morphine shots or codeine tablets. And the pump had scannable data on it. That's how they knew when it needed to be refilled.

WOW Troy, it says it in BLACK and white, and you still refuse to believe it. JEEBUS...

[Lokabrenna]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

I'm not the one being silly; at least two people in this thread so far have suggested microchipping is the mark of the Beast or the mark of the Devil. I repeat: can anyone show me where in this bill it requires or even recommends that microchipping be part of obtaining health care?

Well, if I ever needed proof that my cat is demonic, there ya go!

Hear that, Coel? There's a reason why he scritches the walls and meows at 3AM. Blame the microchip!

(I still think it's all part of the Siamese Cat package, but that's just me.)

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

I'm not the one being silly; at least two people in this thread so far have suggested microchipping is the mark of the Beast or the mark of the Devil. I repeat: can anyone show me where in this bill it requires or even recommends that microchipping be part of obtaining health care?

I referenced the Bill, the pages of the bill, the lines of the bill. I'm sorry, but if you can't read, I don't think any of us can help you.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

WOW Troy, it says it in BLACK and white, and you still refuse to believe it. JEEBUS...

Show me where this health care bill requires or recommends microchipping people as a standard procedure, 'in black and white.'

The blogger said it in black and white. But instead of backing it up by quoting the part of the bill that supposedly lays it out, he simply went to the list of definitions at the end of the bill, where a class II device is defined. Big difference.

My mother's morphine pump was a Class II device, as far as I can tell; it had scannable data the doctors used to regulate dosage, decide when it needed refilling, etc. Did that make it part of some bs, evil government conspiracy? No.

[Cyrano]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

I've skimmed through that mess several times, trying to find out where the proposed health care bill actually requires, or even recommends, that people be chipped. I didn't find it. There's a page number for the definition of class II devices (which are already in use), but none for any part of the bill that discusses their use. Looks like more pointless fear-mongering to me....my mother had a morphine pump implanted, which pinpointed the degenerating parts of her spine. It stopped her from having to live in a drug-induced stupor from morphine shots or codeine tablets. And the pump had scannable data on it. That's how they knew when it needed to be refilled.

I agree, Troy. To me, it sounded like they are setting the criteria for things like morphine pumps, pacemakers, implanted defillibrators like the one Cheney got, and possibly things like stents and shunts. The idea seems to be that if there is a problem with a device, say a manufacturing defect that requires a recall, or as you said, to know when it needs refilling or retuning, it will be easy for the makers to notify doctors, who can then notify their patients to come in and have the device seen to.

That's a long ways away from implanting transponder chips in people. The technology to do that already exists. Those chips people can implant in their pets so they can be returned to the owner if they are lost or stolen and recovered are a simple version of it. But even the military does not do that to soldiers - at least not yet. They've changed the dog tags so a certain amount of medical info can be encoded onto them, I believe; things like allergies, blood type and subtypes, a soldier's shot records, things like that. There's also a code that will let a doctor call up the soldier's complete medical records from the Pentagon's database, I think.

I rather don't think even the leftists on the Supreme Court would let the government get away with so great an invasion of privacy as an implanted transponder chip would create. The gummint would not be the only ones who could read the chips. Any potential employer could. Theoretically, your date could. (I mean, given how simple it is to write an app for the iPhone that does not have to display graphics, how long would it be before some clever programmer did just that? It would be a programming outgrowth of the SKU scanner app I've seen book scouts use at big book sales to decide if a book is worth buying at the price the seller wants!) I can think of a couple of ways it cold be used for identity theft without even straining a neuron.

This is an example of a technology that you'd want to look long and hard at before letting the gummint decide it must b made mandatory for citizens. I'm talking both 1984 and Logan's Run here.The potential for abuse is immense!

[Coeloptera]

I have a feeling that like every single other example of stuff like this that comes up, this too is basically well...a lie.

How soon we forget "Death Panels".

Honestly, I'm getting so very tired of this nonsense lately.

Looking over what was posted again, it's not there. Not word one about compulsory implantation of jack squat. Yep. Lies again.

I think everyone needs to read and understand Poe's Law: http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Poe's_Law

Basically, it's reached the point of frenzy that any accusation, no matter how blatantly nonsensical, is going to be picked up, disseminated, and more importantly, believed by someone.

- Coeloptera

[Ten Man]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Cyrano

.....The potential for abuse is immense!

That's rather the point, isn't it?

With that said, I must confess that I have been laughing my butt off at this thread. It is a PERFECT example of the result of an education system that is failing.

The OP quote of the section of the Bill on page 1001 is a direct quote, for sure, based on the version I read. However, it's interpretation, by whomever decided to start the "sky is falling" version of it, is based on a gross misunderstanding of the English Language.

That section refers to a National Registry being created to assimilate and coordinate data that results from the use and application of Implanted Devices in patients. Insulin pumps, chemotherapy pumps, morphine pumps, defibrillators, pacemakers, etc. are ALL examples of devices that this Registry would track.

IT DOES NOT REFER TO DATA CHIPS BEING REQUIRED TO BE IMPLANTED IN PATIENTS.

I have to plead guilty to "stirring the pot" a bit with my comments about not accepting any ID chip in my body. (I stand by that, too, BTW.) I couldn't help myself. It was just too amusing to watch all the hysteria, based on people's inability to read.

It does NOT mean, however, that the technology isn't going to be pushed to this extreme in the future.

Now that I've confessed, I would like to suggest that this thread be closed. It is nonsense.

[BunnyWabbit]

I would rather have a regular chip and maybe some dip.

[nostraboys]

This article was posted in 2004. The FDA approved this the use of this chip for a reason!

FDA approves computer chip for humans - Health care- msnbc.com


I am not saying this is what the health care bill requires. Info is there, everyone can form your own opinion.

[CrazyIvan]

If you read my thread title, it says "SUGGESTS" so for those who say I don't understand the english language and that my education has failed me... perhaps you should check the definition of "SUGGESTS"

Under the FDA, a type II implant INCLUDES an RF Chip. So, everything in my original post is accurate. I never said it didn't include those other items. But, it does not EXCLUDE RF Chips either.

I guess my point is that if a person wants to let this atrocity through, we should at least reqeust they add in an addendum that says there is not to be any implanted RF or electornic data chips.

[nostraboys]

Most of us understand. Troy?

I'm not going to name names.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

If you read my thread title, it says "SUGGESTS" so for those who say I don't understand the english language and that my education has failed me... perhaps you should check the definition of "SUGGESTS" Under the FDA, a type II implant INCLUDES an RF Chip. So, everything in my original post is accurate. I never said it didn't include those other items. But, it does not EXCLUDE RF Chips either. I guess my point is that if a person wants to let this atrocity through, we should at least reqeust they add in an addendum that says there is not to be any implanted RF or electornic data chips.

Again: show me where this bill even recommends, much less requires, that receiving some sort of microchip should be a requirement of any health care plan. If you can't do so, please have the decency to shut up about it and stop spreading lies.

[Rave]

Addressing the thread,not anyone in particular.
The elite in Washington usually like to float a trial balloon to check the attention/opposition to any particular scam they want to try on us.
Obama was so dam sure of himself that he didn't even bother to float one but blasted directly in to town meetings,a rather stupid mistake imo.
I'll stir the pot a bit and say,"That's all we need,another bug up our butts!"
As far as the devils work,many already know who the anti-chirist is,but wisely keep their opinions to themselves.

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

Again: show me where this bill even recommends, much less requires, that receiving some sort of microchip should be a requirement of any health care plan. If you can't do so, please have the decency to shut up about it and stop spreading lies.

not a lie. fda includes rf chip as a Type II implant.

Nice lock attempt though

[DesertRaider109]

Quote:      

I repeat: can anyone show me where in this bill it requires or even recommends that microchipping be part of obtaining health care?

It doesn't make any difference whether or not the bill requires that a chip be implanted; all legislation like this will do is set the stage for future blanket legislation that WILL require everyone to get chipped.

Sort of like how they intended to use the Assault Weapons Ban to get people used to gun control so they could eventually get rid of all of them!

[homerfire232]

By now we all know how the government operates, they dazzle you with lengthy explainations and confuse you with technical jargen, and bore you with legal terms, and suddenly before you know it....a law is passed requiring you to purchase a walking license for $12.95 per year. And the majority of people in this country would do it without complaint, and the government knows it. Who's serving who?

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by DesertRaider109

It doesn't make any difference whether or not the bill requires that a chip be implanted; all legislation like this will do is set the stage for future blanket legislation that WILL require everyone to get chipped. Sort of like how they intended to use the Assault Weapons Ban to get people used to gun control so they could eventually get rid of all of them!

Ahhhh.... So no matter what the law actually says or does, it's just part of an evil scheme anyway.

Passing laws against speeding is the first step toward confiscating our vehicles; laws against murder are really passed to prevent us from defending ourselves; laws against rape are part of a plot to outlaw heterosexual sex.

Give me a break. The slippery slope-type arguments have been pounded into the ground for years now, on any subject you can mention.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by homerfire232

By now we all know how the government operates, they dazzle you with lengthy explainations and confuse you with technical jargen, and bore you with legal terms, and suddenly before you know it....a law is passed requiring you to purchase a walking license for $12.95 per year. And the majority of people in this country would do it without complaint, and the government knows it. Who's serving who?

That one worries me. Can you please forward a list of the jurisdictions where walking now requires a license, so we can go fight it?