[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

That one worries me. Can you please forward a list of the jurisdictions where walking now requires a license, so we can go fight it?

So you're not concerned until it is too late?

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

So you're not concerned until it is too late?

So you're telling me I should stay awake nights, worrying about whether someone might make it against the law for me to walk down a sidewalk without a permit?

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

So you're telling me I should stay awake nights, worrying about whether someone might make it against the law to walk without a permit?

Naw, not the walking, just in general. I've read your posts time and time again where you say: "It has no support" or "It isn't even being looked at yet" or whatever.

I just would argue that it is easier to squash a bug when it is still larvae than wait for it to become giant science experimental vermon that could eat a house...

[homerfire232]

Just being hypothetical Troy my man....is it so hard for you to believe that there are some "not so nice" people in the government that want power and absolute control over the people? Look at things from the outside, more and more laws are passed every day in this country, eventually making it virtually impossible not to break one. Fear is a great way to control a population, fear of Swine flu, terrorism, economic collapse, aids, drug wars, kidnappings, shootings, rapes, we see these things being hammered into our heads on a daily basis compelling us to do what they say to be safe. Because we are all weak and not able to handle these things without their help. I'm not one of those paranoid tin foil hat guys, I'm a realist, and I know that history tends to repeat itself. We have lived free long enough, its time for change, and it may not be for the better.

[nostraboys]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

Ahhhh.... So no matter what the law actually says or does, it's just part of an evil scheme anyway. Passing laws against speeding is the first step toward confiscating our vehicles; laws against murder are really passed to prevent us from defending ourselves; laws against rape are part of a plot to outlaw heterosexual sex. Give me a break. The slippery slope-type arguments have been pounded into the ground for years now, on any subject you can mention.

Hey!
Let's not give them any more ideas Troy!

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by homerfire232

Just being hypothetical Troy my man....is it so hard for you to believe that there are some "not so nice" people in the government that want power and absolute control over the people? Look at things from the outside, more and more laws are passed every day in this country, eventually making it virtually impossible not to break one. Fear is a great way to control a population, fear of Swine flu, terrorism, economic collapse, aids, drug wars, kidnappings, shootings, rapes, we see these things being hammered into our heads on a daily basis compelling us to do what they say to be safe. Because we are all weak and not able to handle these things without their help. I'm not one of those paranoid tin foil hat guys, I'm a realist, and I know that history tends to repeat itself. We have lived free long enough, its time for change, and it may not be for the better.

Is it so hard for you to believe that everything someone does is not necessarily part of an evil plot to gain control over your life and mine?

Face it: the best thing anyone in power could possibly do for themselves is to leave us the !@#$ alone, so we keep taking care of ourselves and paying taxes without costing the system. Why would they want to screw with that?

[homerfire232]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

Is it so hard for you to believe that everything someone does is not necessarily part of an evil plot to gain control over your life and mine? Face it: the best thing anyone in power could possibly do for themselves is to leave us the !@#$ alone, so we keep taking care of ourselves and paying taxes without costing the system. Why would they want to screw with that?

Historical tyranical madmen, ie; Hitler, Mao, Stalin all started off as local polititians, slowly spreading doing their civic duty, until....BAM!!

[Coeloptera]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

I guess my point is that if a person wants to let this atrocity through, we should at least reqeust they add in an addendum that says there is not to be any implanted RF or electornic data chips.

You do understand that under current law no one can be compelled to accept any transplanted item, natural or synthetic, right? Can't force a woman to accept breast implants if she doesn't want 'em.

Even in an emergency situation, patients are stabilized and consent is sought for something as basic as putting a pin in a bone.

This wouldn't change that, so it's hardly an "atrocity".

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

not a lie. fda includes rf chip as a Type II implant. Nice lock attempt though

Yes it. Still a lie. It quantified a RFID chip as a Type II device (which is logical) nothing more.

Nice dodge attempt, though. Still no suggestions in there anyone get one.

- Coeloptera

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Coeloptera

You do understand that under current law no one can be compelled to accept any transplanted item, natural or synthetic, right? Can't force a woman to accept breast implants if she doesn't want 'em. Even in an emergency situation, patients are stabilized and consent is sought for something as basic as putting a pin in a bone. This wouldn't change that, so it's hardly an "atrocity". Yes it. Still a lie. It quantified a RFID chip as a Type II device (which is logical) nothing more. Nice dodge attempt, though. Still no suggestions in there anyone get one. - Coeloptera

Are you sure of that? because I know several women with bootylicious bottoms and flat chests. I think there should be a law requiring them to balance things out. Otherwise, it gets quite confusing deciding whether we should laugh or slaver when a gal offers us the morning menu at a coffee shop....

[sea_chicken1]

I thought the mark was gonna be that smart Id that they have been using with the military. I red a bill proposed that their trying to push for 2013 that if you dont have the id with the microchip you cant do your banking travel on airplanes enter courtrooms and federal buildings ect.

[Kaybe]

Troy, pay attention. I never said that chipping was the mark of the devil. I was referring to a comment made by someone else. I made reference to the book of Revelations, not the Health Care bill. I don't think that this is the mark of the beast. I made reference to a "cashless" society, NOT the health care bill. I don't like the idea of chipping for health care. Chipping child predators? Sure. But NOT the general public. I won't accept one. Do I think this bill is about chipping? I haven't read it all yet. Even though I am conservative, I don't think Obama is the anti-christ, the BEAST or the devil. I don't think you are the anti-christ, the BEAST or the devil. But, you can be annoying sometimes, like me. Putting the chip in a squirrel is a great idea. If you band it to the leg of a bird, the govt will think you really get around.

[Kaybe]

OK!!!! Chips all the way around! I'm buying! We got Doritos, Cheetos, Lays, Jones chips from Ohio, Snyders of Berlin and many more! Dip too! Cheese dip, Ranch Dip, Jalapano dip, Guacamole dip. Dip all the way around (as I look in the mirror) Hey, no double dipping. One dunk and that is it.......we don't need to spread the H1N1 virus around so that the govt gives us mandatory flu shots. Let's get crunching.

[stalebiscuit]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

Show me where this health care bill requires or recommends microchipping people as a standard procedure, 'in black and white.' The blogger said it in black and white. But instead of backing it up by quoting the part of the bill that supposedly lays it out, he simply went to the list of definitions at the end of the bill, where a class II device is defined. Big difference. My mother's morphine pump was a Class II device, as far as I can tell; it had scannable data the doctors used to regulate dosage, decide when it needed refilling, etc. Did that make it part of some bs, evil government conspiracy? No.

to be honest troy thats the problem with this bill as most americans see it

ive heard alot of talk about what the bill is not (from the folks pushing it, IE most democrats) but i havent heard the democrats say much about what the bill is doing, they just bitch about the republicans and the town hall meetings and blame the insurance companies

F that, i dont care, i dont know what this bill is really for still, i know enough to know i dont like it, i know that the government cant run SH** right, i know what my gut tells me

but thats all i know, so even if micro-chipping is BS (and it sounds wacky to me, but if its true i wont let them near me, i can finally say KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY BODY and mean it), i dont like the bill

sorry no sale, as america would say, and if it gets let in i see alot of problems down the road

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

to be honest troy thats the problem with this bill as most americans see it ive heard alot of talk about what the bill is not (from the folks pushing it, IE most democrats) but i havent heard the democrats say much about what the bill is doing, they just bitch about the republicans and the town hall meetings and blame the insurance companies F that, i dont care, i dont know what this bill is really for still, i know enough to know i dont like it, i know that the government cant run SH** right, i know what my gut tells me but thats all i know, so even if micro-chipping is BS (and it sounds wacky to me, but if its true i wont let them near me, i can finally say KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY BODY and mean it), i dont like the bill sorry no sale, as america would say, and if it gets let in i see alot of problems down the road

So you're saying the problem with the bill is all the false and unsubstantiated things being said about it?

No problem. Here's an earthshattering, wild-eyed suggestion: why don't we argue about the bill based on what's really in it, instead of making up our minds based on hysterical fiction?

[Kaybe]

Hysterical fiction is much more fun! The chips and flu shots will turn us all into gun hating liberals! But.....the idea of balancing out the "tops and bottoms" is worth looking into. Good idea. How you get on the silicon/body mass readjustment committee?

[sea_chicken1]

How about we stop arguing over the petty Bullshit about the bill since most of us seem to be in agreement its a bad idea and talk about what we can do to help insure it doesent pass.

[Seabeescotty]

I LOVE Doritos and Jalapeno dip, the other stuff ain't for me. No chipping, even if I have to pay cash for everything, because I ain't got a chip to scan! Heck, we still barter, out here in the boonies!!!! They ain't gettin' any of THAT action!!!!!! LOL!

[waterdog]

troy I don't know all the facts nor do I think anyone does, but it sure sounds to me nobody's backing your horse, cept you coel, rodie and tlarkin I think alota people don't trust or have faith in this Admn, but your trust is genuine, tho not with the general polls. ........WATERDOG

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by waterdog

troy I don't know all the facts nor do I think anyone does, but it sure sounds to me nobody's backing your horse, cept you coel, rodie and tlarkin I think alota people don't trust or have faith in this Admn, but your trust is genuine, tho not with the general polls. ........WATERDOG

This has nothing to do with anyone backing a horse. It has to do with people getting hysterical over false information.

I don't have to be an Obama backer to call bs when I smell bs.

[Mooseman684]

From Wikipedia...
"VeriChip is the first Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved human-implantable radio-frequency identification (RFID) microchip. It is marketed by VeriChip Corporation, a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions, and it received United States FDA approval in 2004. About twice the length of a grain of rice, the device is typically implanted above the triceps area of an individual’s right arm.[1] Once scanned at the proper frequency, the VeriChip responds with a unique 16 digit number which could be then linked with information about the user held on a database for identity verification, medical records access and other uses. The insertion procedure is performed under local anesthetic in a physician's office. As an implanted device used for identification by a third party, it has generated controversy and debate.

Destron Fearing, a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions, initially developed the technology for the VeriChip.[2]

In the beginning of 2007, Verichip Corporation created Xmark, its corporate identity for healthcare products. Xmark incorporates the Hugs and the Halo system of infant protection; the RoamAlert system of wandering protection; the MyCall emergency response system; and the Assetrac asset tracking system.

Privacy advocates have protested the VeriChip, warning of potential abuse and denouncing these types of RFID devices as "spychips," and that use by governments could lead to an increased loss of civil liberties and would lend itself too easily to abuse. One such case of this abuse would be in the microchip's dual use as a tracking device. Such concerns were justified in the United States, when the CIA program COINTELPRO was revealed to have tracked the activities of high profile political activist and dissident figures. There is also the possibility that the chip's information will be available to those other than governments, such as private business, thus giving employers highly personal information about employees. In addition, privacy advocates state that the information contained in this chip could easily be stolen, so that storing anything private in it would be to risk identity theft. As the human-implantable microchip only contains a unique 16-digit electronic identifier, the unique number is used only for such purposes as accessing personal medical information in a password-protected database or assessing whether somebody has authority to enter into a high-security area. Although the company that makes VeriChip claims that it does not contain any other information beyond this unique 16-digit number, it could be scanned and used to access the database.[3]

Anyone possessing a VeriChip reader can read the human-implantable RFID microchip; the data is unencrypted, and VeriChip does not have the functionality to authorize only certain people to read it. Being a passive RFID microchip containing only a unique 16-digit identifier it can be read by a VeriChip reader held up closely to the location of the inserted chip. This concern can be partially mitigated by using such a chip without implanting it, as by inserting it into the wristband of a watch, which can then be removed at will.

The database associated with the device currently contains only health related information, with no financial information or social security number being stored. The information itself is controlled and directed by the subscriber.

Specifically because it is technically possible to extract the information on a VeriChip, the chip contains only a nondescript 16 digit number. To access the associated personal health record of a subscriber, one must possess a secure logon that is provided only to participating medical facilities, and a record is made every time anybody logs on and accesses a subscriber's record.

An implanted VeriChip was cloned in January 2006 as a demonstration; instructions for cloning VeriChips are available on the web.[4][5]

According to Wired News online[6], and the Associated Press[7], there have been research articles over the last ten years that found a connection between the chips and possible cancer. When mice and rats were injected with glass-encapsulated RFID transponders, like those made by VeriChip, they "developed malignant, fast-growing, lethal cancers in up to 1% to 10% of cases" at the site at which the microchip was injected or to which it had migrated. However, the 10% rate was obtained with hemizygous p53-deficient mice, the counterpart of humans with the Li-Fraumeni syndrome, and rates near 1% were more typical.[8] The Verichip corporation responded to this report, which caused a 40% drop in their stock value, by stating that rodent data had been provided to the FDA and did not reflect the effect of the chips in humans or pets.[9] Rather, rodent foreign body sarcomagenesis is a unique reaction, as evidenced by the publication of only two isolated cases from the large number of dogs subjected to chip implantation. Induction of sarcomas by foreign bodies has been reported in humans,[10][11][12][13][14][15] and has been described as analogous to rodent foreign body-associated sarcomas, but occurring rarely. Resolution of the question may be hindered by the long delay in onset of rare effects, as in the case of other medical controversies regarding foreign objects such as the breast implant controversy and the risk of non-occupational asbestos exposure.

Revelation: Some Christians have come out against the device, as there is a Biblical prophecy where all persons must receive the Mark of the Beast "in their right hand or in their foreheads", described in Book of Revelation 13:16-18[16], to participate in economic activity under the government of the Antichrist.[17] This concern is compounded by the fact that, according to a recent ABC News article, there have been reports of other chips being implanted in patients' right hands. However, the chip has also been seen being implanted in the left arm or hand as well as other areas.[18] It is often surmised that the sixteen digits in the chip stand for the last digits of 666, the original Mark of the Beast. The Greek word Charagma (which stands for 666) describes the piercing bite of a snake, which is akin to using a needle to place the device under your skin.[19]

Bodily Sanctity: In addition, there are various religions and sects which abhor the penetration of the human body, as with surgery or the implantation of devices. An implanted VeriChip violates the mores of such groups.

Tommy Thompson, the former Secretary of Health and Human Services, along with other experts supports the VeriChip as a "useful tool in sharing medical information with health care providers in emergency situations". Thompson also sits on the board of directors of VeriChip's parent company Applied Digital Solutions. In June of 2007, the American Medical Association declared that "implantable radio frequency identification (RFID) devices may help to identify patients, thereby improving the safety and efficiency of patient care, and may be used to enable secure access to patient clinical information". [20]

What I do gather is it could turn into a Tagging System for Humans and you would have to have it to enter airports , certain buildings , court houses , etc...
If you can track and Passively ID everyone , you can Control them as well...

Rich